Streets, roads, highways, and freeways

Our freeways all have names, and those of us who were born here know
them. That we have been forced
to stop using them in ordinary conversation in order to be understood
simply reflects the extent of immigration and emigration with Los
Angeles and environs as its destination.

On the other hand..... the use of names instead of numbers in traffic
reports can be a significant problem for tourists.

I grew up in Milwaukee - you have to go through Chicago to get just
about anywhere east or south. The traffic reports invariably referred
to places like "the spaghetti junction on the Eisenhower" or "the
Kennedy between Rosemont and the Edens".

as you visualize - or try to consult - a map that has these roads
clearly marked as "290" and "90 between 294 and 94". It does say
"Eisenhower" and "Rosemont" on the map, but in small, difficult to read
lettering. It doesn't say "spaghetti junction" anywhere.

Eventually, over nearly 30 years of driving through Chicago, I've
learned the road names. (though some of the landmarks used by the radio
stations still escape me)

I feel for the poor Ohioan trying to get to Minneapolis, or the Montanan
trying to reach family in Fort Wayne, etc...
--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.w9wi.com

"Doug Smith W9WI" wrote in message
...


On the other hand..... the use of names instead of numbers in traffic
reports can be a significant problem for tourists.

I grew up in Milwaukee - you have to go through Chicago to get just about
anywhere east or south. The traffic reports invariably referred to places
like "the spaghetti junction on the Eisenhower" or "the Kennedy between
Rosemont and the Edens".

as you visualize - or try to consult - a map that has these roads clearly
marked as "290" and "90 between 294 and 94". It does say "Eisenhower" and
"Rosemont" on the map, but in small, difficult to read lettering. It
doesn't say "spaghetti junction" anywhere.

Eventually, over nearly 30 years of driving through Chicago, I've learned
the road names. (though some of the landmarks used by the radio stations
still escape me)

I feel for the poor Ohioan trying to get to Minneapolis, or the Montanan
trying to reach family in Fort Wayne, etc...
--

This is a problem thats not confined to the USA

My national (UK) traffic report yesterday referred to congestion
on the A1 near the Black Cat Roundabout. Living close
by I happen to know thats the junction with the A-421 and
got its name from the resemblance it supposedly has seen from the
air but god help the traveller who tries to find it on a map.

Similarly on the same road you'll hear references to
'Brampton Hut' and 'Spittals Interchange'

Keith

Icono Clast wrote:
So what? At any given moment, locals are likely to out-number tourists
by the hundreds if not thousands. Traffic reports should serve local
people in a clear and understandable fashion that doesn't force us to
think about what is meant, such thinking being a distraction from the
task at hand: driving safely!

If traffic reports had traditionally used road numbers and exit numbers
from the beginning, then locals would find them just as useful as
tourists. Unfortunately at this point locals and tourists "speak two
different languages" and there's probably no good way to correct the
problem without doubling the length of the traffic report.

Arguably the tourist (/trucker) needs the traffic reports more than the
locals. The locals know where the worst jams tend to form and the best
ways to avoid them. (if possible!) Tourists need more time to prepare.
A pile of out-of-town traffic (especially big trucks!) pulling into
the end of a jam only makes that jam worse for everyone (tourist *and*
local) involved.

But again, the cat is out of the bag.
--
Doug Smith W9WI
Pleasant View (Nashville), TN EM66
http://www.w9wi.com

On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 15:01:15 GMT, Doug Smith W9WI
wrote:

Icono Clast wrote:
So what? At any given moment, locals are likely to out-number tourists
by the hundreds if not thousands. Traffic reports should serve local
people in a clear and understandable fashion that doesn't force us to
think about what is meant, such thinking being a distraction from the
task at hand: driving safely!

If traffic reports had traditionally used road numbers and exit numbers
from the beginning, then locals would find them just as useful as
tourists.

When I first started visiting Los Angeles I seriously doubt that
a report of an accident on the 405 at the Slauson Cutoff would
have done me a damn bit of good.

Unfortunately at this point locals and tourists "speak two
different languages" and there's probably no good way to correct the
problem without doubling the length of the traffic report.

Arguably the tourist (/trucker) needs the traffic reports more than the
locals. The locals know where the worst jams tend to form and the best
ways to avoid them. (if possible!) Tourists need more time to prepare.
A pile of out-of-town traffic (especially big trucks!) pulling into
the end of a jam only makes that jam worse for everyone (tourist *and*
local) involved.

Most traffic reports don't even mention the "normal" traffic
jams.


************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

Doug Smith W9WI wrote:
Icono Clast wrote:
At any given moment, locals are likely to out-number tourists by
the hundreds if not thousands. Traffic reports should serve local
people in a clear and understandable fashion that doesn't force us
to think about what is meant, such thinking being a distraction
from the task at hand: driving safely!

locals and tourists "speak two different languages"

That's been the case since the beginning of time.

and there's probably no good way to correct the problem without
doubling the length of the traffic report.

The primary problem in and around San Francisco is that the traffic
reports are written by people who don't drive our streets, roads,
highways, and freeways and, therefore, don't know how to reference them.
Were they written by locals for locals, there'd be no problem.

Arguably the tourist (/trucker) needs the traffic reports more than the
locals.

When I'm elsewhere, it's rare that I know where a traffic report is
talking about. And, even if I did, I probably wouldn't know what to do
about it to reach my destination. When it comes to reporting on urban
traffic, no consideration should be given to tourists not only because
they wouldn't know what to do but also because there are so few of them
on the road at any particular moment.

Truckers? They have their own sources of information, especially citizen
band radio contact with each other. When I had one of those radios in
the car, I'd sometimes ask them where to eat.

The locals know where the worst jams tend to form and the best ways
to avoid them. (if possible!) Tourists need more time to prepare.

For what? Locals can take alternate routes. Tourists don't know the
alternatives.

[One time in Texas, the traffic stopped. I followed a buncha locals who
illegally drove over an embankment and, sure enough, we drove around the
problem.]

[I saw a huge jam ahead and took the next exit, having no idea where it
went. From http://geocities.com/iconoc/Articles/ItalDRIVE.html:
While driving on a freeway-parallel road around a major jam we saw in
the distance, we saw its cause: A horrific high-speed crash involving
several cars that must've resulted in a death or three. Fire trucks,
ambulances, and a mob of police were in attendance. Fortunately the
road remained parallel to the freeway and we got back on it.]

A pile of out-of-town traffic (especially big trucks!) pulling into the
end of a jam only makes that jam worse for everyone (tourist *and*
local) involved.

Perhaps, but tourists ain't got no choice. Dey don' know nuttin'.


Hatunen said:
When I first started visiting Los Angeles I seriously doubt that
a report of an accident on the 405 at the Slauson Cutoff would
have done me a damn bit of good.

Zactly! But "the San Diego Freeway" would've probably been less vague.
__________________________________________________ _________________
"San Francisco is a pleasure. Los Angeles is a headache" Rita (NYC)
http://geocities.com/dancefest/ - http://geocities.com/iconoc/
ICQ: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/19098103 --- IClast at SFbay Net

Keith W wrote:
My national (UK) traffic report yesterday referred to congestion on
the A1 near the Black Cat Roundabout. Living close by I happen to
know thats the junction with the A-421 and got its name from the
resemblance it supposedly has seen from the air but god help the
traveller who tries to find it on a map.

That would be me and it's my problem. Traffic reports should serve those
who are likely to be there, i.e., locals and not us furriners even if
we're from London or *.pool.

Similarly on the same road you'll hear references to
'Brampton Hut' and 'Spittals Interchange'
__________________________________________________ _________________
Un San Francisqueño en San Francisco.
http://geocities.com/dancefest/ - http://geocities.com/iconoc/
ICQ: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/19098103 --- IClast at SFbay Net

"Icono Clast" wrote in message
. ..
Keith W wrote:
My national (UK) traffic report yesterday referred to congestion on
the A1 near the Black Cat Roundabout. Living close by I happen to
know thats the junction with the A-421 and got its name from the
resemblance it supposedly has seen from the air but god help the
traveller who tries to find it on a map.

That would be me and it's my problem. Traffic reports should serve those
who are likely to be there, i.e., locals and not us furriners even if
we're from London or *.pool.


Trouble is the locals already know about the congestion as its
due to road works that have been going on for months.

Keith



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On Tue, 03 Jan 2006 03:29:37 -0800, Icono Clast
wrote:

Hatunen said:
When I first started visiting Los Angeles I seriously doubt that
a report of an accident on the 405 at the Slauson Cutoff would
have done me a damn bit of good.

Zactly! But "the San Diego Freeway" would've probably been less vague.

Not to a visitor, since the Slauson Cutoff was the problematic
part. In truth, though, the first time I visited LA the San Diego
Fereeway was not yet I-405.

I do recall being on Century Blvd when we came to the San Diego
Freeway and knew we wanted to go north, I beleive it was, while
the signs unhelpfully pointed us to "San Diego Fwy - Bakersfield"
and "San Diego Fwy - Anaheim" and we had no idea at the time
which were to the north and south.

In the reverse situation when we first moved to Tucson some forty
years ago, we came up to I-10 knowing we needed to go north but
the signs said "I-10 West" and "I-10 East"; I-10 runs north and
south through the center of Tucson and we did not yet know that
"west" meant "north" for our purposes.



************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *