Trip Report - Singapore / Malaysia

Pan wrote:

On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 21:23:47 GMT, "Gregory Morrow"
wrote:


Alfred Molon wrote:

flyinyereye wrote:

I once saw a woman in KL in full black burka, with a pink helium
balloon
on
a string, whilst her husband was casually dressed in jeans, t-shirt
and
thongs (flip flops). The scene just seemed so wrong.

I think these women choose freely to dress like that - nobody is
forcing
them.


Nonsense. They are forced by their families and husbands and societal
laws
to dress like that. If they don't they'll be shunned - or *worse*, e.g.
stonings and even death.

Can you name the last time a Malaysian was stoned? You're a
bull****ter, which is worse than an ignoramus.


Hey you replied ;-p


Are we back to the
"monolithic Communists," only substituting "Muslims" for "Communists"?
Remember what they say about fools speaking.


If you close your eyes *very* tightly and just *wish* it you can be in
Tirana c. 1959!

--
Best
Greg

Pan wrote:

On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 21:23:47 GMT, "Gregory Morrow"
wrote:


Alfred Molon wrote:

flyinyereye wrote:

I once saw a woman in KL in full black burka, with a pink helium
balloon
on
a string, whilst her husband was casually dressed in jeans, t-shirt
and
thongs (flip flops). The scene just seemed so wrong.

I think these women choose freely to dress like that - nobody is
forcing
them.


Nonsense. They are forced by their families and husbands and societal
laws
to dress like that. If they don't they'll be shunned - or *worse*, e.g.
stonings and even death.

Can you name the last time a Malaysian was stoned? You're a
bull****ter, which is worse than an ignoramus.


Hey you replied ;-p


Are we back to the
"monolithic Communists," only substituting "Muslims" for "Communists"?
Remember what they say about fools speaking.


If you close your eyes *very* tightly and just *wish* it you can be in
Tirana c. 1959!

--
Best
Greg

Pan wrote:

On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 21:29:08 GMT, "Gregory Morrow"
wrote:


Alfred Molon wrote:


Gregory Morrow wrote:

Despite the nice facade you saw the fact that it is a mainly Islamic
country
should be a red flag to you. What is the legal status of the women
you
saw,
their station in life?

Excellent - women are well integrated in society and most of them have
a
job.


As long as the rule of Shariah is followed women will *always* be
second -
class citizens.

There are some problems. No-one claimed that Malaysia is perfect. But
the position of women is not that low in Malaysia and has been rising.

Did you see any Jews?

There are no Jews in Malaysia. Jews never migrated there (in any case
not in significant numbers).

Do gays have a place in Malaysian society?

No. Is this a problem for you ?


I'm queer. Next question....

I'm a strong supporter of gay rights, but I won't boycott a country
because "sodomy" is illegal there. "Sodomy" was until recently illegal
in various states of my own country, the U.S.A., and I couldn't very
well boycott my own country! Do what you like, but don't expect a lot
of heterosexuals to boycott Malaysia out of sympathy for "sodomites."
Despite the high-profile persecution of Anwar with a humiliating fake
charge of "sodomy," I understand that gays who keep a low profile are
seldom prosecuted. Malaysia is not a country that stones people for
adultery and other consensual sexual offenses.


No they just do periodic "sweeps" and imprison them and cause them a lot of
humiliation.


Oh my god - have you ever been to Malaysia ?


Nope. Why would I? I loathe Muslims
[snip]

So we know how seriously to take your remarks.


You think I'm not serious?


[snip]
Isn't it nice to live in a place such as the BRD that has strong
protections
for human rights and a strong rule of secular law?

Yeah. So stay home, because most other countries don't have such
strong protections and are places where you wouldn't want to live.



Nonsense. There are plenty of places that would fit my criteria: Canada,
many of the EU countries, Israel, New Zealand, Oz, Japan...

--
Best
Greg
..

Pan wrote:

On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 21:29:08 GMT, "Gregory Morrow"
wrote:


Alfred Molon wrote:


Gregory Morrow wrote:

Despite the nice facade you saw the fact that it is a mainly Islamic
country
should be a red flag to you. What is the legal status of the women
you
saw,
their station in life?

Excellent - women are well integrated in society and most of them have
a
job.


As long as the rule of Shariah is followed women will *always* be
second -
class citizens.

There are some problems. No-one claimed that Malaysia is perfect. But
the position of women is not that low in Malaysia and has been rising.

Did you see any Jews?

There are no Jews in Malaysia. Jews never migrated there (in any case
not in significant numbers).

Do gays have a place in Malaysian society?

No. Is this a problem for you ?


I'm queer. Next question....

I'm a strong supporter of gay rights, but I won't boycott a country
because "sodomy" is illegal there. "Sodomy" was until recently illegal
in various states of my own country, the U.S.A., and I couldn't very
well boycott my own country! Do what you like, but don't expect a lot
of heterosexuals to boycott Malaysia out of sympathy for "sodomites."
Despite the high-profile persecution of Anwar with a humiliating fake
charge of "sodomy," I understand that gays who keep a low profile are
seldom prosecuted. Malaysia is not a country that stones people for
adultery and other consensual sexual offenses.


No they just do periodic "sweeps" and imprison them and cause them a lot of
humiliation.


Oh my god - have you ever been to Malaysia ?


Nope. Why would I? I loathe Muslims
[snip]

So we know how seriously to take your remarks.


You think I'm not serious?


[snip]
Isn't it nice to live in a place such as the BRD that has strong
protections
for human rights and a strong rule of secular law?

Yeah. So stay home, because most other countries don't have such
strong protections and are places where you wouldn't want to live.



Nonsense. There are plenty of places that would fit my criteria: Canada,
many of the EU countries, Israel, New Zealand, Oz, Japan...

--
Best
Greg
..

Pan wrote:

On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 21:29:08 GMT, "Gregory Morrow"
wrote:


Alfred Molon wrote:


Gregory Morrow wrote:

Despite the nice facade you saw the fact that it is a mainly Islamic
country
should be a red flag to you. What is the legal status of the women
you
saw,
their station in life?

Excellent - women are well integrated in society and most of them have
a
job.


As long as the rule of Shariah is followed women will *always* be
second -
class citizens.

There are some problems. No-one claimed that Malaysia is perfect. But
the position of women is not that low in Malaysia and has been rising.

Did you see any Jews?

There are no Jews in Malaysia. Jews never migrated there (in any case
not in significant numbers).

Do gays have a place in Malaysian society?

No. Is this a problem for you ?


I'm queer. Next question....

I'm a strong supporter of gay rights, but I won't boycott a country
because "sodomy" is illegal there. "Sodomy" was until recently illegal
in various states of my own country, the U.S.A., and I couldn't very
well boycott my own country! Do what you like, but don't expect a lot
of heterosexuals to boycott Malaysia out of sympathy for "sodomites."
Despite the high-profile persecution of Anwar with a humiliating fake
charge of "sodomy," I understand that gays who keep a low profile are
seldom prosecuted. Malaysia is not a country that stones people for
adultery and other consensual sexual offenses.


No they just do periodic "sweeps" and imprison them and cause them a lot of
humiliation.


Oh my god - have you ever been to Malaysia ?


Nope. Why would I? I loathe Muslims
[snip]

So we know how seriously to take your remarks.


You think I'm not serious?


[snip]
Isn't it nice to live in a place such as the BRD that has strong
protections
for human rights and a strong rule of secular law?

Yeah. So stay home, because most other countries don't have such
strong protections and are places where you wouldn't want to live.



Nonsense. There are plenty of places that would fit my criteria: Canada,
many of the EU countries, Israel, New Zealand, Oz, Japan...

--
Best
Greg
..

I went up the Petronas Twin Towers on 7/24. They do give out most of the
tickets at 8 am but save
some tickets to be handed out at 10 am at opening time.

You are right about KL Tower - certainly better views from there and you
can take your time looking.
At the Twin Towers, by the time I finished taking quick photos and
videos, it was already time to leave.
I think it lasted abut 5 min

regards
waseem


EAC wrote:

As I remember, they give exactly 1000 tickets per opening day (the day
the skydeck is open to the public). Though they might have reduced it
down to 600 tickets per opening day. I don't know, I haven't checked
out Petronas website lately.

It should be noted that the observatory deck of Menara Kuala Lumpur
offer a much higher view of Kuala Lumpur than the Sky Bridge of the
Petronas Twin Towers. While going up in Menara Kuala Lumpur do have a
fee, I don't think that they limit the amount of tickets per day.
Besides, Menara Kuala Lumpur have a rotating restoraunt where you can
have a view of the city while you eat.

I went up the Petronas Twin Towers on 7/24. They do give out most of the
tickets at 8 am but save
some tickets to be handed out at 10 am at opening time.

You are right about KL Tower - certainly better views from there and you
can take your time looking.
At the Twin Towers, by the time I finished taking quick photos and
videos, it was already time to leave.
I think it lasted abut 5 min

regards
waseem


EAC wrote:

As I remember, they give exactly 1000 tickets per opening day (the day
the skydeck is open to the public). Though they might have reduced it
down to 600 tickets per opening day. I don't know, I haven't checked
out Petronas website lately.

It should be noted that the observatory deck of Menara Kuala Lumpur
offer a much higher view of Kuala Lumpur than the Sky Bridge of the
Petronas Twin Towers. While going up in Menara Kuala Lumpur do have a
fee, I don't think that they limit the amount of tickets per day.
Besides, Menara Kuala Lumpur have a rotating restoraunt where you can
have a view of the city while you eat.

"Gregory Morrow" schreef in
bericht nk.net...
Do gays have a place in
Malaysian society?

Yes, they do. I have got a very good gay friend in Malaysia who introduced
me to his friends. Some of them are couples openly living together and
sharing their lifes, I have been to parties with fathers and mothers and
other family members present, true they don't *talk* about being gay but it
is obvious to all present what the relationship between the guys is and they
ask me questions that make clear that they know I am gay too.

There are some nice gay bars in KL with doors open, no bell to ring, people
moving in and out to outside food stalls where food and drinks are much
cheaper and much flirting going on etc.

Again, Gregory, it shows that you seldom leave your house and have become a
bitter old man.

Sjoerd

"Gregory Morrow" schreef in
bericht nk.net...
Do gays have a place in
Malaysian society?

Yes, they do. I have got a very good gay friend in Malaysia who introduced
me to his friends. Some of them are couples openly living together and
sharing their lifes, I have been to parties with fathers and mothers and
other family members present, true they don't *talk* about being gay but it
is obvious to all present what the relationship between the guys is and they
ask me questions that make clear that they know I am gay too.

There are some nice gay bars in KL with doors open, no bell to ring, people
moving in and out to outside food stalls where food and drinks are much
cheaper and much flirting going on etc.

Again, Gregory, it shows that you seldom leave your house and have become a
bitter old man.

Sjoerd

On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 22:25:16 GMT, "Gregory Morrow"
wrote:


Pan wrote:

On Tue, 07 Sep 2004 21:23:47 GMT, "Gregory Morrow"
wrote:


Alfred Molon wrote:

flyinyereye wrote:

I once saw a woman in KL in full black burka, with a pink helium
balloon
on
a string, whilst her husband was casually dressed in jeans, t-shirt
and
thongs (flip flops). The scene just seemed so wrong.

I think these women choose freely to dress like that - nobody is
forcing
them.


Nonsense. They are forced by their families and husbands and societal
laws
to dress like that. If they don't they'll be shunned - or *worse*, e.g.
stonings and even death.

Can you name the last time a Malaysian was stoned? You're a
bull****ter, which is worse than an ignoramus.


Hey you replied ;-p

You're hopeless, eh?


Are we back to the
"monolithic Communists," only substituting "Muslims" for "Communists"?
Remember what they say about fools speaking.


If you close your eyes *very* tightly and just *wish* it you can be in
Tirana c. 1959!

I'd rather be in Kansas, Toto.

Michael

If you would like to send a private email to me, please take out the TRASH, so to speak. Please do not email me something which you also posted.