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LA Times: U.S. Love Affair With The Car Ending



 
 
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  #21  
Old January 29th, 2007, 11:22 PM posted to rec.travel.usa-canada,ba.transportation,misc.transport.urban-transit
SMS
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Posts: 899
Default LA Times: U.S. Love Affair With The Car Ending

Scott en Aztlán wrote:
SMS said in misc.transport.urban-transit:

Actually what needs to be done is to find ways to encourage people to
leave the SUV or mini-van at home, and use a smaller vehicle for
commuting, and use the larger vehicle only when necessary.


Or, better still, use public transit for commuting, and *rent* the SUV
when you actually need one.


That doesn't really work. Families often need the larger vehicle every
weekend, and several times during the week. Where they don't need it, is
in everyday commuting. The SUV or minivan has become the defacto
replacement for the large station wagons of the past. At least they get
better mileage.
  #22  
Old January 29th, 2007, 11:40 PM posted to rec.travel.usa-canada,ba.transportation,misc.transport.urban-transit
sharx35
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Posts: 803
Default LA Times: U.S. Love Affair With The Car Ending


"SMS" wrote in message
...
Scott en Aztlán wrote:
SMS said in misc.transport.urban-transit:

Actually what needs to be done is to find ways to encourage people to
leave the SUV or mini-van at home, and use a smaller vehicle for
commuting, and use the larger vehicle only when necessary.


Or, better still, use public transit for commuting, and *rent* the SUV
when you actually need one.


That doesn't really work. Families often need the larger vehicle every
weekend, and several times during the week. Where they don't need it, is
in everyday commuting. The SUV or minivan has become the defacto
replacement for the large station wagons of the past. At least they get
better mileage.


So, who put a gun to their heads and forced them to have that many children
that they NEED a SUV? 2 or 3 children can EASILY be transported in the back
seat of even a medium-sized car.





  #23  
Old January 29th, 2007, 11:55 PM posted to rec.travel.usa-canada,ba.transportation,misc.transport.urban-transit
Bolwerk
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Posts: 87
Default LA Times: U.S. Love Affair With The Car Ending

sharx35 wrote:
"SMS" wrote in message
...
Scott en Aztlán wrote:
SMS said in misc.transport.urban-transit:

Actually what needs to be done is to find ways to encourage people to
leave the SUV or mini-van at home, and use a smaller vehicle for
commuting, and use the larger vehicle only when necessary.
Or, better still, use public transit for commuting, and *rent* the SUV
when you actually need one.

That doesn't really work. Families often need the larger vehicle every
weekend, and several times during the week. Where they don't need it, is
in everyday commuting. The SUV or minivan has become the defacto
replacement for the large station wagons of the past. At least they get
better mileage.


So, who put a gun to their heads and forced them to have that many children
that they NEED a SUV? 2 or 3 children can EASILY be transported in the back
seat of even a medium-sized car.


Hell, I've transported three in a Subaru Outback Sport before with
relative ease. We also had an adult squeezed into the trunk. (Okay, it
may not be pleasant if you're driving 400 miles.)

The ironic thing is that sometimes SUVs really don't provide that much
in the way of additional passenger space anyway.
  #24  
Old January 30th, 2007, 12:08 AM posted to rec.travel.usa-canada,ba.transportation,misc.transport.urban-transit
Jack May
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Posts: 71
Default LA Times: U.S. Love Affair With The Car Ending


"Bolwerk" wrote in message
...
Jack May wrote:
"SMS" wrote in message
...
Calif Bill wrote:


They already did that. That's how we ended up with so many highways in
the first place.


The highways are an inherent result of technology evolution, society needs,
and normal progress. Trying to hold on to past with obsolete technology
always fails in a free society.

People that do not want to use the most effective technology are called
laggards and are the bottom 16% of society in measures such as income,
mental ability, connectivity to others, and effectiveness in society in
general.

Society in general is not run by the least effective people in the lowest
levels of society.


  #25  
Old January 30th, 2007, 12:13 AM posted to rec.travel.usa-canada,ba.transportation,misc.transport.urban-transit
Jack May
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Posts: 71
Default LA Times: U.S. Love Affair With The Car Ending


"Scott en Aztlán" wrote in message
...
SMS said in misc.transport.urban-transit:

Actually what needs to be done is to find ways to encourage people to
leave the SUV or mini-van at home, and use a smaller vehicle for
commuting, and use the larger vehicle only when necessary.


Or, better still, use public transit for commuting, and *rent* the SUV
when you actually need one.


There is no advantage to society in using transit and major negative factors
in using transit.

Scott, please remember that there is no future in the 19th Century. Your
view that transportation technology reached its peak in the 19th Century
and solves the transportation problems of the 21st Century is worthless and
shows no understanding of the society you live in.


  #26  
Old January 30th, 2007, 12:28 AM posted to rec.travel.usa-canada,ba.transportation,misc.transport.urban-transit
David Nebenzahl
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Posts: 60
Default LA Times: U.S. Love Affair With The Car Ending

Jack May spake thus:

"Bolwerk" wrote in message
...

Jack May wrote:

"SMS" wrote in message
.. .

Calif Bill wrote:


They already did that. That's how we ended up with so many highways in
the first place.


The highways are an inherent result of technology evolution, society needs,
and normal progress. Trying to hold on to past with obsolete technology
always fails in a free society.


So, Jack, you're saying that our highway system just sort of, naturally,
evolved? Is that right?

And here I always thought it (specifically, the interstate highway
system) came about because *people planned it*. And not just people, but
big, powerful, famous, influential people, like Dwight D. Eisenhower.
Silly me! They're just an "inherent result" of evolution. Technology
evolved, and then one day, *Poof!* there were highways.

So was it some sort of intelligent design that evolved the highway system?


--
Don't talk to me, those of you who must need to be slammed in the
forehead with a maul before you'll GET IT that Wikipedia is a
time-wasting, totality of CRAP...don't talk to me, don't keep bleating
like naifs, that we should somehow waste MORE of our lives writing a
variorum text that would be put up on that site.

It is a WASTE OF TIME.

- Harlan Ellison, writing on the "talk page" of his Wikipedia article
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Harlan_Ellison)
  #27  
Old January 30th, 2007, 12:30 AM posted to rec.travel.usa-canada,ba.transportation,misc.transport.urban-transit
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 899
Default LA Times: U.S. Love Affair With The Car Ending

Bolwerk wrote:

The ironic thing is that sometimes SUVs really don't provide that much
in the way of additional passenger space anyway.


Depends. The Honda Pilot seats eight, and most minivans seat eight. It's
not just for transporting your own kids, it's the softball team, soccer
team, etc. It's probably better to have three minivans or SUVs than
seven or eight compact cars. It's also about transporting other family
members, i.e. grandparents.

That's why it would be most fuel-efficient to be able to have a small
car for commuting, and keep the larger vehicle for use only when
necessary. I do that by bicycling to work when possible, but sometimes I
need a vehicle during the day.
  #28  
Old January 30th, 2007, 12:44 AM posted to rec.travel.usa-canada,ba.transportation,misc.transport.urban-transit
Bolwerk
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 87
Default LA Times: U.S. Love Affair With The Car Ending

I'm going to snip all of the loaded and elitist statements and respond
only to the the substantive parts of your post.

Jack May wrote:










Oops, I'm left with nothing to say,
  #29  
Old January 30th, 2007, 12:47 AM posted to rec.travel.usa-canada,ba.transportation,misc.transport.urban-transit
Bolwerk
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 87
Default LA Times: U.S. Love Affair With The Car Ending

David Nebenzahl wrote:
Jack May spake thus:

"Bolwerk" wrote in message
...

Jack May wrote:

"SMS" wrote in message
...

Calif Bill wrote:


They already did that. That's how we ended up with so many highways
in the first place.


The highways are an inherent result of technology evolution, society
needs, and normal progress. Trying to hold on to past with obsolete
technology always fails in a free society.


So, Jack, you're saying that our highway system just sort of, naturally,
evolved? Is that right?

And here I always thought it (specifically, the interstate highway
system) came about because *people planned it*. And not just people, but
big, powerful, famous, influential people, like Dwight D. Eisenhower.
Silly me! They're just an "inherent result" of evolution. Technology
evolved, and then one day, *Poof!* there were highways.

So was it some sort of intelligent design that evolved the highway system?


You forgot to mention that everyone who takes a train is a pea-brained
laggard with a welfare check. Upstanding white folk such as yourself
should never stoop to such lows!
  #30  
Old January 30th, 2007, 01:30 AM posted to rec.travel.usa-canada,ba.transportation,misc.transport.urban-transit
SMS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 899
Default LA Times: U.S. Love Affair With The Car Ending

David Nebenzahl wrote:

Got a cite for that? Not disputing you, just intrigued (and too lazy to
look for myself).


Just a bunch of blogs. Actual Prius and Civic Hybrid mileage is more in
the low 30's for city, and high 30's or low 40's for highway. You can
get higher, if you drive slower on the highway, i.e. 55 mph, versus 65
mph. It shouldn't be surprising, as on the highway you have the extra
inefficiency of the extra conversion, mechanical to electrical back to
mechanical, without any benefit from running on batteries.

Actually in 2008, we'll see the new EPA standards for mpg, and hybrids
will take the biggest hit, about 30%. The non-hybrid mpg ratings are
going to be hit as well, but only by 5-10%.
 




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