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With The World Environment Day Conference.....



 
 
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  #21  
Old June 8th, 2005, 09:41 PM
Disgruntled Customer
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"pigo" enscribed:

"Disgruntled Customer" wrote in message
...

Funny but if hiring practices are fair and not racist, the
distribution of
hired people will closely match the distribution of job candidates.
Affirmative
action only kicks in when there is evidence (statistical or direct)
of
unfair hiring practice.


You mean like the NBA?


Does the distribution of job candidates match the distribution of job hires?
Affirmative action is concerned with the population applying to a class of
jobs, not the population as a whole.

--
Feh. Mad as heck.
  #22  
Old June 8th, 2005, 10:12 PM
Merlin Dorfman
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In ba.transportation Stan de SD wrote:

"Disgruntled Customer" wrote in message
...


....

Diablo Range so that people have an alternative.


You're assuming minorities are universally less qualified; that is, you're
saying they're inferior.


Funny, but I favor hiring people based on their individual qualifications,
not to meet some "diversity" quota. The fact that Lefty Liberals feel
compelled to force racial quotas is an admission that they themselves don't
believe that those people can make it on merit.


I don't know anybody who favors quotas...do you? (Or is that an
admission that there are no "Lefty Liberals"?)
Methods like Affirmative Action are used, not because their
advocates feel minorities can't "make it on merit," but because
hiring is not based on merit in the real world.
It's clear that, in the real world, minorities do not hold
jobs in many areas in proportion to their population. If you
believe that hiring does in fact take place on merit, does that
mean that minorities are in fact of lower merit? (And, if so, is
that based on inherent ability, education and experience, ...? And
what, if anything, do you believe should be done about it?)
(Actually I don't know why I bother to ask that last question.
Your answer is that if government will quit trying to solve
problems, the problems will solve themselves.)

  #23  
Old June 9th, 2005, 12:07 AM
pigo
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"Disgruntled Customer" wrote in message
...
"pigo" enscribed:

"Disgruntled Customer" wrote in message
...

Funny but if hiring practices are fair and not racist, the
distribution of
hired people will closely match the distribution of job
candidates.
Affirmative
action only kicks in when there is evidence (statistical or
direct)
of
unfair hiring practice.


You mean like the NBA?


Does the distribution of job candidates match the distribution of
job hires?
Affirmative action is concerned with the population applying to a
class of
jobs, not the population as a whole.


You mean all we have to do is get a bunch of white guys to *apply* to
the NBA?


  #24  
Old June 10th, 2005, 01:55 AM
Jack May
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Posts: n/a
Default


"Disgruntled Customer" wrote in message
...
Funny but if hiring practices are fair and not racist, the distribution of
hired people will closely match the distribution of job candidates.
Affirmative
action only kicks in when there is evidence (statistical or direct) of
unfair hiring practice.


What exactly is the mechanism that makes the distribution of hired people
match the distribution of job candidate?

The mechanism that creates jobs needing workers is what customers want to
buy.

The mechanism that qualifies a person to have a job is education, skills,
experience, capability to do the work, and the attitude toward work.

The demand for workers and the eligibility to qualify to be a worker are
different from each other. In other words, just because you can buy
something, does not mean that you can build that something.

Saying any mismatch is raciest is a racist cheap shot by you that makes no
sense at all.


  #25  
Old June 10th, 2005, 06:08 PM
Stan de SD
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"Disgruntled Customer" wrote in message
...
"pigo" enscribed:

"Disgruntled Customer" wrote in message
...

Funny but if hiring practices are fair and not racist, the
distribution of
hired people will closely match the distribution of job candidates.
Affirmative
action only kicks in when there is evidence (statistical or direct)
of
unfair hiring practice.


You mean like the NBA?


Does the distribution of job candidates match the distribution of job

hires?

And if it doesn't, what does that prove?


  #26  
Old June 10th, 2005, 06:12 PM
Stan de SD
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Posts: n/a
Default


"Merlin Dorfman" wrote in message
...
In ba.transportation Stan de SD wrote:

"Disgruntled Customer" wrote in message
...


...

Diablo Range so that people have an alternative.


You're assuming minorities are universally less qualified; that is,

you're
saying they're inferior.


Funny, but I favor hiring people based on their individual

qualifications,
not to meet some "diversity" quota. The fact that Lefty Liberals feel
compelled to force racial quotas is an admission that they themselves

don't
believe that those people can make it on merit.


I don't know anybody who favors quotas...do you? (Or is that an
admission that there are no "Lefty Liberals"?)
Methods like Affirmative Action are used, not because their
advocates feel minorities can't "make it on merit," but because
hiring is not based on merit in the real world.
It's clear that, in the real world, minorities do not hold
jobs in many areas in proportion to their population. If you
believe that hiring does in fact take place on merit, does that
mean that minorities are in fact of lower merit?


In some cases, yes. There is plenty of data out there that shows that
certain minorities have lower levels of hs/college graduation, have lower
standardized test scores, etc. than the white majority. Conversely, there is
data that other minorities have higher test/graduation levels, than the
white majority. Is it a coincidence that the groups that statistically
perform better are "overrepresented", while those that statistically perform
worse are "underrepresented"? Is it "racism"? Or is it merely a logical
outcome based on the inputs?


  #27  
Old June 10th, 2005, 07:56 PM
Frank F. Matthews
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Posts: n/a
Default



Stan de SD wrote:

"Disgruntled Customer" wrote in message
...

"pigo" enscribed:

"Disgruntled Customer" wrote in message
...


Funny but if hiring practices are fair and not racist, the
distribution of
hired people will closely match the distribution of job candidates.
Affirmative
action only kicks in when there is evidence (statistical or direct)
of
unfair hiring practice.

You mean like the NBA?


Does the distribution of job candidates match the distribution of job


hires?

And if it doesn't, what does that prove?




Racist hiring practices in the NBA.


  #28  
Old June 10th, 2005, 11:55 PM
Merlin Dorfman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In ba.transportation Stan de SD wrote:

"Merlin Dorfman" wrote in message
...
In ba.transportation Stan de SD wrote:


....

It's clear that, in the real world, minorities do not hold
jobs in many areas in proportion to their population. If you
believe that hiring does in fact take place on merit, does that
mean that minorities are in fact of lower merit?


In some cases, yes. There is plenty of data out there that shows that
certain minorities have lower levels of hs/college graduation, have lower
standardized test scores, etc. than the white majority. Conversely, there is
data that other minorities have higher test/graduation levels, than the
white majority. Is it a coincidence that the groups that statistically
perform better are "overrepresented", while those that statistically perform
worse are "underrepresented"? Is it "racism"? Or is it merely a logical
outcome based on the inputs?


Good questions. Do you feel that anything should be done
about those minority groups that underperform?

  #29  
Old June 11th, 2005, 12:03 AM
Jack May
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Merlin Dorfman" wrote in message
...
In ba.transportation Stan de SD wrote:


Good questions. Do you feel that anything should be done
about those minority groups that underperform?


Like what? Does anyone have a proven solution to the problem?

We know just throwing money at the problem seldom works.


  #30  
Old June 11th, 2005, 12:20 AM
Stan de SD
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Merlin Dorfman" wrote in message
...
In ba.transportation Stan de SD wrote:

"Merlin Dorfman" wrote in message
...
In ba.transportation Stan de SD wrote:


...

It's clear that, in the real world, minorities do not hold
jobs in many areas in proportion to their population. If you
believe that hiring does in fact take place on merit, does that
mean that minorities are in fact of lower merit?


In some cases, yes. There is plenty of data out there that shows that
certain minorities have lower levels of hs/college graduation, have

lower
standardized test scores, etc. than the white majority. Conversely,

there is
data that other minorities have higher test/graduation levels, than the
white majority. Is it a coincidence that the groups that statistically
perform better are "overrepresented", while those that statistically

perform
worse are "underrepresented"? Is it "racism"? Or is it merely a logical
outcome based on the inputs?


Good questions. Do you feel that anything should be done
about those minority groups that underperform?


Stop hiring and promoting individuals on the basis of race.


 




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