thumb on the scale at airport check-in

On Thu, 06 Aug 2009 16:53:00 -0600, Robert Neville
wrote:

Jack Campin - bogus address wrote:

: Does anyone know when or how often the scales at airport check in
: are calibrated and whether or not i can legally challenge their
: weigh in?

Comments, anyone?

In the US, commercial scales used for commerce almost always need to be
certified by a local weights & measurements agency.

Hi

OT, but some years ago I owned a hobby store here in the UK selling,
among other things, mineral specimens by weight.

The shop premises I bought already had an old set of commercial scales
left by the previous owner, which I used quite happily for a few weeks
to weigh rocks. The scales had a government inspection sticker on
them and worked fine except that a small rubber pad was missing from
the scales, meaning that they were weighing very slightly light and
customers were getting a fraction of an ounce free. The difference
was so negligible that I certainly wasn't worried about loss of
income.

I then decided to sell gold jewellery mounts for customers making
their own jewellery and, as I knew I had a legal obligation to display
a card explaining hallmarking, I contacted the local weights and
measurements agency to ask where I obtained one - a big, big, mistake.

"We'll bring one round sir - and, as you haven't been open long, we'll
have a look at your store at the same time."

"No, there is no need to put yourself out, all I want is a hallmarking
notice"

"It's no bother sir - see you shortly".

They soon arrived complete with a vanload of checking equipment.

"Do you know that your scales haven't been officially checked for
years, they are now out of tolerance and therefore illegal, so we can
prosecute you if we wanted to?"

"Ehh!! They are weighing slightly light, so customers are actually
getting more than they pay for and as I only weigh lumps of
semi-precious stone on the scales, I always round the weight to the
nearest ounce anyway."

"Doesn't matter sir, they are out of tolerance and anyway, it is
illegal to sell customers more than they ask for, even if you are not
charging them for the extra."

"Ehhh!!! Can't I just stick a piece of chewing gum to replace the
small bit of rubber that has fallen off?"

"No sir, that would be even more illegal - and by the way what is that
string I see over there."

"Kite flying twine - I sell kites."

"Ahh, string is sold by length, so do you have an official government
marked measuring stick?"

"Ehhh!! Why do I need to measure it. I don't actually sell it by
length. It is prepacked and sealed by the suppliers. I can't measure
it unless I tear open the packing."

"I can see that the label clearly says the item is 100feet of kite
twine, so it is sold by length, hence you need an official government
marked measuring stick."

"But I cannot get at the string to measure it. It is a sealed package,
done by the manufacturers; people bring the sealed pack to the counter
and buy it - surely it is the people who packed the string who need
the measuring stick?"

"Ahh, no sir. It is you who are selling it, so legally it is your
responsibility to ensure it is the correct length, hence you need an
official government marked measuring stick - and whilst we are here,
do you by chance sell any electrical equipment and if so does it have
a health and safety label on the plug warning customers not to attempt
to refit the plug themselves" Unfortunately I did and it didn't!!!!!

After checking virtually everything in my store, they eventually left
having decided not to prosecute me providing I immediately bought a
new set of scales and an official government marked measuring stick -
"we'll be back to check their accuracy sir", - and taking with them
the address of the lapidary stone polishing machine makers, so they
could chase them up to fit warning labels on the plugs.

I know customers need protecting from unscrupulous tradespeople but
this was bureaucracy gone mad!!!

Regards

KGB

KGB (KGB) wrote:

I then decided to sell gold jewellery mounts for customers making
their own jewellery and, as I knew I had a legal obligation to display
a card explaining hallmarking, I contacted the local weights and
measurements agency to ask where I obtained one - a big, big, mistake.

"We'll bring one round sir - and, as you haven't been open long, we'll
have a look at your store at the same time."

Oh no they didn't.

You have to buy the hallmark display card.

They're about £10 and your local trading standards are only interested
if you don't display one of the correct size when selling precious
metals that are hallmarked...

Actually getting hold of one if you're starting up in the jewellery
business can be something of a trial (I got mine from the London assay
office, the Birmingham one doesn't have them) and the idea that a local
trading standards office keeps a stock is absurd

--
William Black

The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing.
If you can fake that, you've got it made.

"KGB (KGB)" wrote in message
...
....
"Do you know that your scales haven't been officially checked for
years, they are now out of tolerance and therefore illegal, so we can
prosecute you if we wanted to?"

"Ehh!! They are weighing slightly light, so customers are actually
getting more than they pay for and as I only weigh lumps of
semi-precious stone on the scales, I always round the weight to the
nearest ounce anyway."

"Doesn't matter sir, they are out of tolerance and anyway, it is
illegal to sell customers more than they ask for, even if you are not
charging them for the extra."

Your mistake was selling a specific weight, rather than a minimum weight. If
you sell a specific weight of product, then you have to have certified
scales. If you sold the stones by the bag ' minimum weight x', then it is up
to you to decide how you ensure that no bag contains less than x. You can be
prosecuted if any do contain less than x, but not if, within certain limits,
they contain more.

....
"Kite flying twine - I sell kites."

"Ahh, string is sold by length, so do you have an official government
marked measuring stick?"

"Ehhh!! Why do I need to measure it. I don't actually sell it by
length. It is prepacked and sealed by the suppliers. I can't measure
it unless I tear open the packing."

"I can see that the label clearly says the item is 100feet of kite
twine, so it is sold by length, hence you need an official government
marked measuring stick."

"But I cannot get at the string to measure it. It is a sealed package,
done by the manufacturers; people bring the sealed pack to the counter
and buy it - surely it is the people who packed the string who need
the measuring stick?"

"Ahh, no sir. It is you who are selling it, so legally it is your
responsibility to ensure it is the correct length, hence you need an
official government marked measuring stick ...

You could have appealed that. Under Section V of the Weights and Measures
Act 1985, it is the reponsibility of the manufacturer or importer to ensure
that sealed packages are correctly marked.

Colin Bignell

On Sat, 8 Aug 2009 11:43:29 +0100, "nightjar" cpb@insert my surname
here.me.uk wrote:

Hi

SNIP
"I can see that the label clearly says the item is 100feet of kite
twine, so it is sold by length, hence you need an official government
marked measuring stick."

"But I cannot get at the string to measure it. It is a sealed package,
done by the manufacturers; people bring the sealed pack to the counter
and buy it - surely it is the people who packed the string who need
the measuring stick?"

"Ahh, no sir. It is you who are selling it, so legally it is your
responsibility to ensure it is the correct length, hence you need an
official government marked measuring stick ...
A friend of mine who also owned a hobby shop and who sold 3ft lengths
of balsa wood had the same problem around the same time:- "As they are
sold by length sir, you must have an official measuring stick". He
insisted that he didn't sell the balsa by length but sold it by the
piece. After a discussion they decided to accept his claim - I wish I
had thought of that.



You could have appealed that. Under Section V of the Weights and Measures
Act 1985, it is the reponsibility of the manufacturer or importer to ensure
that sealed packages are correctly marked.
Thinking about it, this was pre 1985 (strewth where does time go
to)!!!!

Fortunately, the VAT people were easier to deal with. I used to drink
in the same pub as a VAT inspector, who sidled up to me one day at the
bar and gave me the friendly warning that as my shop had been open 2
years the VAT inspectors were going to descend in a few days and go
through my books with a fine tooth comb and it would be a good idea to
make sure everything was in order; it was nothing personal just a
purely routine check on a new business.

I promptly bought him a pint and spent the next few days double
checking my books - which were actually completely above board, but
mistakes do happen. To my relief, the figure I should have paid in
VAT according to the inspectors was within a few pence of what I
actually did pay so they went away quite happy.

Regards


KGB

On Sat, 08 Aug 2009 11:29:44 +0100, William Black
wrote:

KGB (KGB) wrote:

I then decided to sell gold jewellery mounts for customers making
their own jewellery and, as I knew I had a legal obligation to display
a card explaining hallmarking, I contacted the local weights and
measurements agency to ask where I obtained one - a big, big, mistake.

"We'll bring one round sir - and, as you haven't been open long, we'll
have a look at your store at the same time."

Oh no they didn't.

Oh yes they did - I am not in the habit of telling lies!!! It was
however, quite a few years ago and regulations do, of course have a
habit of changing.


You have to buy the hallmark display card.
I didn't say it was free - In truth I cannot remember whether it was
free or whether I had to pay a nominal sum. But I definitely obtained
it via the local trading standards.


Actually getting hold of one if you're starting up in the jewellery
business can be something of a trial (I got mine from the London assay
office, the Birmingham one doesn't have them) and the idea that a local
trading standards office keeps a stock is absurd
I wasn't actually in the jewellery business - I owned a hobby shop
selling everything from wargaming figures to candle making kits, model
aircraft and also metal detectors and lapidary equipment. As I sold
the tumblers for polishing semi-precious stones it seemed logical to
also sell the mounts for customers to glue the polished stones onto.
As some of these mounts may be hallmarked, I knew I had to display a
hallmarking notice, which - at that time - I obtained via my Trading
standards office.

It was not, repeat NOT a jewellers but a hobby shop.

In the end I closed the shop down and went on to other things.

Regards

KGB