Effect of very long flights

"qansett" wrote in message
...

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
(PeteCresswell) writes:

Senior or otherwise, blood clots from lack of motion seem tb a
significant
consideration from what I've read so far.

DVT can occur anywhere, whenever one stays in the same place for a long
time.
Air travel doesn't make one especially prone to DVT. Getting up and
moving
around periodically (even for just a minute or two) helps. DVT is rare
in
people who are in good health, irrespective of age.

And I'll be they're under-reported, since the bad stuff happens sometime
*after*
the flight.

I think in recent years the danger of DVT on aircraft has been greatly
exaggerated.

I think so to, particularly when back in the 1970's a flight between LHR
and SYD
was 36 hrs. DVT was never spoken about. It never affected me either.

The flights back then did not have such long sectors. They used to stop
typically in the Middle East (Dubai, Tehran, etc.) and sometimes in southern
Europe (Athens was a favourite). I used to walk around during these stops
and many other people (most?) did too. I think maximum sectors were
typically 8-9 hours or so, now 13 is common, even more on 340-500 etc.
Also there were far less people flying in those days. If the numer of
passengers was only 5% of today (my guess) then the number of DVTs was
probably so low it was not associated with flying.

I have met one person who lost a leg from DVT after an SE.Asia-Europe
flight. One is one too many for me!
But I don't know if he already had circulation problems etc.




--
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wrote in message
ups.com...
Greetings! Now a days there are very long flights lasting more than
twelve hours. One can go directly from Dallas to Tokyo or Chicago to
Delhi. I am a senior citizen. I am wondering the effect of such a
long distance flight on senior citizens like me. Has any member has
taken such a long flight? Please write about your experience with such
long flights. With thanks.

I don't know if being a senior makes much difference - there have been cases
of quite young people with DVT after flights.
I am now 60 (ouch, I still don't believe it) and have been flying UK-SE.Asia
(typically one 13hour sector, then a 1.5hr) a few round-trips a year for
over 10 years, plus lots of short haul and mediums (eg.
Singapore-Australia).

I try to walk around the cabin a couple of times on the long sector, and
also stretch & wiggle my legs a bit when sitting, but with no scientific
plan to it.
I don't really worry about DVT but feel better if I move a bit like this.
I also take low-dose aspirins (75mg?) before long hauls - one the day
before, and one just before the flight... if I remember.
I take window seats on daytime long-sectors as there are some great views on
my usual routes, but aisle setas are more sensible to let you take little
walks.

I have some knee injuries and am very stiff legged (joints rather than
circulation) after a long sector but it passes after a few minutes walking.

Beyond that... boredom. Alcohol helps but I assume that is totally
unhealthy.

I notice that some people manage to sleep and barely move throughout a long
haul - I would think that is not a good idea.



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A couple of occasions I've felt a that the cabin air was very stale.

Cabin air is actually quite fresh in modern aircraft. There is some
recirculation, but also a considerable amount of outside air introduced into
the cabin, and the air at altitude is very clean. The recirculated air is
very heavily filtered to remove just about everything it might contain.
However, the air can be very dry (some aircraft allow the crew to control
humidity to some extent).

On most jets the humidity level is 3%RH or less. Outside air is
diverted from an engine compressor and enters the aircraft at super-
heated temperatures. After it is cooled it is mixed with cabin air and
circulated. Boeing's new 787 has been getting some particularly
favorable press for it's air intake sustem which bypasses the
compressor and hot air cycle. Which is expected to introduce cabin air
at the low end of acceptable humidity.

For long flights I take along a three 750ml water bottles. More than
anything else I may do (loose clothing, movement and stretching, ear
plugs, eye shades,...) being adequately hydrated makes the most
difference. It has been my observation that most airlines seldom
provide enough fluid for the length of their flights and to compensate
for the dry cabin air.

RAK writes:

If the numer of
passengers was only 5% of today (my guess) then the number of DVTs was
probably so low it was not associated with flying.

The incidence of DVT has always been low. It's not any more or less common
now.

People tend to assess the risk of disease based on what they hear from news
media dedicated to sensationalism and creation of fear, uncertainty, and
dread; the real risks are completely uncorrelated with the impression these
media create. This is one reason why diseases fall in and out of style in
false "epidemics" over the years, even though their real incidence never
changes.

Doctors are not immune to the siren song of CNN and trade media. When they
start to read about an interesting condition, they think about it more, and
they look for it more ... and so they find it more. They are much less likely
to find things that they are not looking for and that they have never thought
about (this is where computer assistance with diagnosis can come in handy, but
it is not widely used). So when your local Dr. Welby hears universal expert
Dr. Gupta on CNN, he starts looking around to see if any of _his_ patients
might have the Disease of the Month, and sure enough, he often finds one or
two that kinda sorta match the clinical picture.

I have met one person who lost a leg from DVT after an SE.Asia-Europe
flight. One is one too many for me!
But I don't know if he already had circulation problems etc.

Many cases of DVT are associated with predisposing conditions, such as
cardiovascular problems. DVT in a completely healthy individual usually
warrants a careful examination to see if that individual is really as healthy
as he seems.

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RAK writes:

I don't know if being a senior makes much difference - there have been cases
of quite young people with DVT after flights.

Just being a senior does not increase your risk very much. If you've had
cardiovascular problems in the past (especially in your legs, but anywhere),
your risk increases. If you've recently had predisposing conditions such as
phlebitis, your risk increases more significantly.

In general, if you can sit at a desk at work all day, or sleep in a recliner
for a couple of hours, you can sit on a plane as well. There's nothing magic
about being on a plane that makes it more risky, it's just one of those places
where you are immobile for long periods. You're often immobile during sleep,
too, so sleep is risky at any time.

Walking around on a long flight is a good idea, and not just because of the
very low risk of DVT. The same is true at home, though: sitting in front of a
PC for six hours without ever getting or moving around is just as unwise as
sitting in an airplane seat for that period.

I take window seats on daytime long-sectors as there are some great views on
my usual routes, but aisle setas are more sensible to let you take little
walks.

I like window seats for short flights with things to see, especially flights
short enough that nobody is likely to sleep. For long hauls, an aisle seat
makes more sense, as it facilitates potty breaks without disturbing anyone,
and there's nothing to see out the window for long stretches, anyway.

I have some knee injuries and am very stiff legged (joints rather than
circulation) after a long sector but it passes after a few minutes walking.

Knee injuries are one of the potential risk factors for DVT, depending on how
old they are. This is because any injury raises the possibility of bleeding,
which in turn raises the possibility of clotting. If it's just a knee that is
messed up and doesn't work quite right (but hasn't recently caused any
bleeding), it's less of an issue.

Beyond that... boredom. Alcohol helps but I assume that is totally
unhealthy.

It helps you sleep in small amounts. It also encourages diuresis and a shift
in water between body compartments that can cause dehydration, though, and the
dry air of an aircraft is already encouraging dehydration.

I notice that some people manage to sleep and barely move throughout a long
haul - I would think that is not a good idea.

It's no more risky in flight than in bed.

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"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
RAK writes:

cut

I take window seats on daytime long-sectors as there are some great views
on
my usual routes, but aisle setas are more sensible to let you take little
walks.

I like window seats for short flights with things to see, especially
flights
short enough that nobody is likely to sleep. For long hauls, an aisle
seat
makes more sense, as it facilitates potty breaks without disturbing
anyone,
and there's nothing to see out the window for long stretches, anyway.

There's a lot to see on some routes - I like alongside the Himalayas (esp at
dawn) and other mountain areas, central Australia, Afghanistan & Iran -
mostly dry areas with good visibility, and the option of Osama spotting.
Well, I enjoy the views anyway.
And being in the window seat means no-one disturbs you to get past... but a
good bladder helps

I have some knee injuries and am very stiff legged (joints rather than
circulation) after a long sector but it passes after a few minutes
walking.

Knee injuries are one of the potential risk factors for DVT, depending on
how
old they are. This is because any injury raises the possibility of
bleeding,
which in turn raises the possibility of clotting. If it's just a knee
that is
messed up and doesn't work quite right (but hasn't recently caused any
bleeding), it's less of an issue.

The latter - lack of meniscus/cartilege, chipped bones, torn ligament etc.
Moan moan moan.
........


I notice that some people manage to sleep and barely move throughout a
long
haul - I would think that is not a good idea.

It's no more risky in flight than in bed.

Not so sure about that. Your weight is spread evenly in a bed (which is
better padded than the average airline seat), whereas in a plane there are
major pressure areas on the back of the thighs and thereabouts. And doesn't
DVT tend to start in legs? Some seats have raised ridges at the front which
I find really dig in. And I think most people turn over from time to time
when asleep in bed. And I don't spend 13 hours in bed, typically only half
that.

Sitting in a chair at home or work has similar focussed pressure but is not
normally done 12+hours at a stretch (OK, except Homer Simpson).

I have done much more than 13 hours in buses and cars but usually with a
walkabout every couple of hours.



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"One Way Ticket" wrote in message
ps.com...

For long flights I take along a three 750ml water bottles.

How do you get them on the aircraft?

Water is banned on flights originating in the USA, Europe and most of
Asia...

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.


..

RAK writes:

There's a lot to see on some routes - I like alongside the Himalayas (esp at
dawn) and other mountain areas, central Australia, Afghanistan & Iran -
mostly dry areas with good visibility, and the option of Osama spotting.
Well, I enjoy the views anyway.

Those do sound like interesting views. Most of my long hauls have been over
oceans. All you see is a blurry mix of clouds and water all the way to the
horizon. Except for occasional pack ice as you go north, but that gets old
very quickly. I've never been on a truly long-haul flight entirely over land.

At the altitudes of airliners things start to look very similar after a while,
too, although I'm sure the Himalayas would stand out.

Not so sure about that. Your weight is spread evenly in a bed (which is
better padded than the average airline seat), whereas in a plane there are
major pressure areas on the back of the thighs and thereabouts.

But pressure alone won't produce blood clots. Clots are encouraged by
injuries of some kind that trigger the clotting mechanism. That means true
injuries that bleed, problems with blood vessels that look enough like
injuries to trigger formation of blood clots, etc. All of these can occur
independent of the body's orientation. In a healthy person, there's no
special tendency for blood to clot just because he or she is sedentary, but if
there are any irregularities, clots can form in abnormal quantity or size.

And doesn't DVT tend to start in legs?

Not exclusively, but often, simply because the legs are far from the heart,
the blood moves slowly, and there are many potential causes for clots. But
clots can form anywhere. DV = deep vein, and there are a fair number of
those. Deep veins are large and facilitate the formation of large clots,
which can then get stuck if they are carried somewhere else (such as to the
heart or lungs).

Some seats have raised ridges at the front which
I find really dig in. And I think most people turn over from time to time
when asleep in bed. And I don't spend 13 hours in bed, typically only half
that.

Sitting in a chair at home or work has similar focussed pressure but is not
normally done 12+hours at a stretch (OK, except Homer Simpson).

I have done much more than 13 hours in buses and cars but usually with a
walkabout every couple of hours.

There is certainly no doubt that walking around every few hours cannot hurt
and may definitely help. But even if you don't, if you're in good health, DVT
isn't very likely. Dehydration is a much bigger problem.

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Per Mxsmanic:
In general, if you can sit at a desk at work all day, or sleep in a recliner
for a couple of hours, you can sit on a plane as well. There's nothing magic
about being on a plane that makes it more risky,

For me, at least, beeeeeeg diff between working at a desk all day and being
crammed into an airline seat.
--
PeteCresswell

William Black wrote:
"One Way Ticket" wrote in message
ps.com...

For long flights I take along a three 750ml water bottles.

How do you get them on the aircraft?

Water is banned on flights originating in the USA, Europe and most of
Asia...

And now Australia, too.

--
ant
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