What knives are legal to carry in Australia ?

brian w edginton wrote:
On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 17:16:52 +1000, Chilla
wrote:


Nah of course you can import daggers, just depends on the type ;-)



As long as they don't have two cutting edges. Even a sharpened false
edge can get you into trouble.

Had an Ek dagger confiscated by Customs, once.

Although, a collector can, in some states apply to state police for a
permit to import.
Lots of hoops, though.


Hi Brian,

Couldn't find the legislations for QLD NT or TAS, but haqve a list for
the other states.

These are the knives that are prohibited. If you don't see it on the
list you can import an own that knife in that state. You still can't
carry it on the street with out a good reason.

----------
NSW
---
(1) A flick knife (or other similar device) that has a blade which
opens automatically by gravity or centrifugal force or by any pressure
applied to a button, spring or device in or attached to the handle of
the knife.

(2) A ballistic knife that propels a knife-like blade of any
material by any means other than an explosive.

(3) A sheath knife that has a sheath which withdraws into its
handle by gravity or centrifugal force or if pressure is applied to a
button, spring or device attached to or forming part of the sheath,
handle or blade of the knife.

(4) An Urban Skinner push dagger or any other device that consists
of a single-edged or multi-edged blade or spike that has a handle fitted
transversely to the blade or spike and allows the blade or spike to be
supported by the palm of the hand so that stabbing blows or slashes can
be inflicted by a punching or pushing action.

(5) A trench knife or any other device that consists of a
single-edged or multi-edged blade or spike that is fitted with a handle
made of any hard substance that can be fitted over the knuckles of the
hand of the user to protect the knuckles and increase the effect of a
punch or blow, or that is adapted for such use.

(6) A butterfly knife or “balisong” or any other device that
consists of a single-edged or multi-edged blade or spike that fits
within 2 handles attached to the blade or spike by transverse pivot pins
and is capable of being opened by gravity or centrifugal force.

(7) A star knife or any other device that consists of a number of
angular points, blades or spikes disposed outwardly about a central axis
point and that are designed to spin around the central axis point in
flight when thrown at a target.

----------
ACT
---

A knife commonly known as a flick knife that has a blade that opens
automatically by gravity or centrifugal force or by any pressure applied
to a button, spring or device in or attached to the handle of the knife.

A sheath knife that has a sheath that withdraws into its handle by
gravity or centrifugal force or if pressure is applied to a button,
spring or device attached to or forming part of the sheath, handle or
blade of the knife.

A device known as an Urban Skinner push dagger or any similar device.

A butterfly knife or any similar device.

A knife commonly known as a star knife or any similar device.

An article known as the ‘Bowen Knife Belt' or any article of similar
design capable of concealing or disguising a knife or any like article.

A ballistic knife (other than a ballistic knife that propels a
projectile by means of an explosive) or any similar device.

----------
VIC
---
1. "Flick knife ", being a knife
designed or adapted so that the blade is concealed when folded or
recessed into the handle and which opens by gravity or centrifugal force
or by any pressure applied to a button, spring or device in or attached
to the handle of the knife .

2. "Dagger", being a sharp pointed stabbing instrument (other than
an oyster knife ), ordinarily capable of being concealed on the person
and having-
(a) a flat blade with cutting edges (whether serrated or not
serrated) along the length of both sides; or
(b) a needle-like blade, the cross section of which is elliptical
or has 3 or more sides, but not including instruments such as swords or
bayonets.

3. "Knuckle knife ", being an open or exposed blade
or similar instrument attached to a handle that is designed or adapted
to be held between the knuckles (including the device commonly known as
the "Urban Pal Knife ").

4. An article that is designed to include a concealed knife or
sword blade, including but not limited to-
(a) a belt or similar article designed or adapted to hold a knife ,
dagger or similar instrument so that the presence of the knife ,
dagger or similar instrument is concealed or disguised as part of the
belt or similar article when it is worn (for example an article known
as the "Bowen Knife Belt");
(b) a "swordstick", being a cane, stick or similar article designed
or adapted to hold the blade of a sword so that it is concealed from
view until withdrawn from the cane, stick or article;
(c) a riding crop designed or adapted to hold a blade or spike so
that it is concealed from view until withdrawn from the crop.

5. "Butterfly knife ", being
a knife with a 2 piece handle that folds together to cover both edges
of the blade whether the blade is serrated or not serrated.

6. "Double-end knife ",
being a knife that has the appearance of 2 overlapping curved blades
joined together so as to form an ellipse shape.

7. A knife that is designed or
adapted so that the blade is concealed by a plastic, wooden or metal
sheath which retracts into the handle of the knife by gravity or
centrifugal force or by any pressure applied to a button, spring or
device in or attached to the handle of the knife (including the knife
commonly known as the "Black Eagle Knife ").

8. "Push knife " or similar device designed as a weapon that consists
of a single-edged or multi-edged blade or spike of any material that has
a handle fitted transversely to the blade or spike and allows the blade
or spike to be supported by the palm of the hand so that stabbing blows
or slashes can be inflicted by a punching or pushing action.

9. "Trench knife " or similar
device that consists of a single-edged or multi-edged blade or spike of
any material that is fitted with a handle made of any hard substance
that can be fitted over the knuckles of the hand of the user to protect
the knuckles and increase the effect of a punch or blow, or that is
adapted for such use.

10. "Throwing blade", being a knife or axe of any material that is
designed or modified to be thrown.

11. "Ballistic knife ", being a device or instrument
designed or adapted to fire or discharge a knife , dagger or similar
instrument by mechanical, percussive or explosive means.

12. "Non-metal/ceramic knife ",
being a knife , blade or spike of which no part is metallic, excluding
plastic cutlery.

---------------------
WA
--
2. Ballistic knife An article made or modified to be used to discharge
a knife and includes the knife .

4.Butterfly knife

A knife —
(a) having a 2 piece handle which folds together to cover both edges of
the blade; and
(b) made or modified to be used to injure or disable a person or as a
martial arts weapon,
and includes the martial arts weapon known as the butterfly knife or
balisong.
7.

Disguised knife or sword

A knife or sword disguised as part of another article and includes —
(a) a knife disguised as part of a belt (e.g. the article commonly
known as the “Bowen” knife belt); or
(b) a sword disguised as a cane or stick.
11.

Flick knife or Switchblade

A knife —
(a) having a blade that is concealed when folded or recessed into the
handle and that opens by gravity or centrifugal force or by any pressure
applied to a button, spring or device in or attached to the handle of
the knife ; and
(b) made or modified to be used to injure or disable a person or as a
martial arts weapon.
13.

Knuckle knife

A knife made or modified to be held so that the blade protrudes
between the knuckles or fingers of a hand (e.g. the article commonly
known as the “Urban Pal” knife ).

----------
SA
--

1—Ballistic knife

A device or instrument designed or adapted to fire or discharge a
knife, dagger or similar instrument by mechanical, percussive or
explosive means (but not a dart projector).

7—Fighting knife

An article that is—

(a) a butterfly knife ; or

(b) a dagger; or

(c) a flick knife ; or

(d) a push knife ; or

(e) a trench knife ; or

(f) any other kind of knife ,

that is designed or adapted for hand to hand fighting, but does not
include a bayonet or a sword
----------


Regards Charles

kangaroo16 wrote:

On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 22:53:13 +1000, Chilla
wrote in
:

Better still, my home brew is always available, drinking a 750ml bottle
will have you giggling at the telephone (I use 2kg of sugar in a 20
litre batch). Homebrew at the moment Stout (black as sin, refreshing as
a virgin), Ginger beer definitely not for the kids. Spicy Ghost, a more
traditional mix, not as sweet, but more the typical beer flavour.


Sounds interesting, actually. Have you worked out the actual
alcohol content?

Roughly between 13 - 18%, the longer it sits the stronger and less sweet
it gets. I forgot a crate one year and only found it 10 months later,
so it was roughly about 13 months old. It had a strong after taste, but
was extremely alcoholic so anyone that drank it didn't care about the
flavour.



How much does it cost to set up for home brewing in N.Z. Or did
you do it there?

I'm an Ozzie, but the price is similar in NZ, about $60 AUD to set up if
you want a kit, or $6 if you buy a bung and an airlock, and get a 20
litre container from the local bakery (they use food grade plastic
drums, and just throw them away). See I can help you to become a cheap
drunk. The bottles cost me though, $3 each new, or you can recycle.



What do you use as a fermentation container? Here, one that
should work well is a large food-grade plastic screw top jar.

I actually have two kits going when I brew , so end up with about 40
litres of happiness. A screw top is better, and any food grade
container can be made into a fermentation device (or still).



From memory, they are about 200 litre capacity, and last I checked were very cheap.

200 litre?!!?!? That would be waaaaaaay cool to do a brew that big,
however the process would be extremely labour intensive. My wife would
divorce me though :-(



Another possibility would be one of the stainless steel beer
barrels often seen stacked outside pubs. These do have a deposit
on them, around $25 from memory, and the publican might part with
one.

I've never fermented in a keg before, I'm a bottle man. Well if you can
get pie-eyed with one bottle then a keg isn't necessary :-D



Another thing you might try, if of an experimental turn of mind,
is to try adding some glucose to speed up initial fermentation.

THe problem with glucose is that it make your beer taste disgusting if
you get it wrong. I just use a yeast starter, and fermentation is very
quick.



Humans, and, from memory, most other animals, and some plants
such as yeast, don't directly utilize table sugar, which is
sucrose or, chemically, C12H22O11.

It's like any sugar it breaks down eventually, and this is an advantage.
The process takes longer to metabolise the sugar, this means there is
sugar to drink, so your beer is sweeter, and if you leave it long enough
the alcohol ramps up, and is drinkable for longer.


Fermentation is not usually much of a problem in warm climates,
but N.Z. isn't as warm as Australia. Before the yeast can
rapidly reproduce, the sucrose has to be broken down to glucose.

I remember one cold winter (which by NZ standards might just be an
average day), the brew didn't start, so I used a hair dryer, a blanket
and a yeast starter and got it going. ONce it was under way it was self
sustaining.


So, just as an experiment, get a couple of the distilled water
jugs, or even Coca-Cola bottles made from "PET" plastic.

Hell no, don't do that, the PET bottle will explode violently. If you
want to ferment in PET bottles then get the OzTops system (naturally I
have this... did I mention I was a cheap drunk?). A bottle of apple
fruit juice, some yeast and one of these special lids, 2 days later
apple cider, leave it longer it gets stronger. Want more fizz, use a
PET bottle.



Incidentally, is distillation legal in N.Z.? When I left the US,
one needed government permission to even own a distillation unit,
even one for distilling water. Australia is somewhat more
tolerant, and allows this. Italian migrants or their
descendents, often use stills to convert home-brewed wine
into "grappa", a potent spirit!

In Oz it is illegal, and you can't legally own a still with a more than
5 litre capacity. The still you can own isn't for alcohol... essential
oils, distilling water, but no booze :-(


Wine, of course, can "go off". So can beer, usually from
contamination from a bacterium that converts the alcohol to
acetic acid, or "vinegar". The genus _Aerobacter_ from memory.


Time will kill the yeast eventually, basically it starves. Pure alcohol
is a different kettle of fish.


Which is more than can be said for some humans who consume too
much of it. Your brew can cause some people to "giggle" at the
sight of a telephone? Drink enough "grappa" or other high
alcohol spirit and you wouldn't even recognise a phone! Or
anything else, for that matter.:-)

I've had some home made grappa, and geez it was rugged.


As far as I know, stills are legal for personal use in Australia,
as long as the product is for ones own use. However, am not sure
this is still the case.

Absolutely true. Worse luck :-(


Regards Charles

"kangaroo16" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 03:25:18 -0700, "Slint Flig"
wrote in
:

Statistically speaking, a guy in
his mid 30s, out with a dog, not making a nuisance of himself is very
unlikely to be stopped and searched. Cops tend to go for teenagers
wearing
tracksuits and baseball caps, swigging from a Buckfast bottle.

Can cops in the UK search people on the street whenever they want to?

A more interesting question is whether cops anywhere in the
world, including the USA, can search anyone, anywhere. The
answer, if you are curious, is a simple "Yes"!

Cheers,
Kangaroo16

But in the US what they find is not admissable in court, unless they have
probably cause etc.

kangaroo16 wrote:

Easy remedy for this risk, of course. Require all passengers &
staff to travel naked. Once they overcome their initial
shyness, could provide some interesting conversations and
introductions.

It wouldn't be shyness, but trying to conceal an embarrassing boner,
seen the hostesses bending over in front of you? I swear they do this
deliberately.


Regards Charles

On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 18:17:03 +1000, Chilla
wrote in
:

kangaroo16 wrote:

On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 22:53:13 +1000, Chilla
wrote in
:

Better still, my home brew is always available, drinking a 750ml bottle
will have you giggling at the telephone (I use 2kg of sugar in a 20
litre batch). Homebrew at the moment Stout (black as sin, refreshing as
a virgin), Ginger beer definitely not for the kids. Spicy Ghost, a more
traditional mix, not as sweet, but more the typical beer flavour.


Sounds interesting, actually. Have you worked out the actual
alcohol content?

Roughly between 13 - 18%, the longer it sits the stronger and less sweet
it gets. I forgot a crate one year and only found it 10 months later,
so it was roughly about 13 months old. It had a strong after taste, but
was extremely alcoholic so anyone that drank it didn't care about the
flavour.

If you can get 18%, you must be using some pretty alcohol
resistant yeast! :-)



How much does it cost to set up for home brewing in N.Z. Or did
you do it there?

I'm an Ozzie, but the price is similar in NZ, about $60 AUD to set up if
you want a kit, or $6 if you buy a bung and an airlock, and get a 20
litre container from the local bakery (they use food grade plastic
drums, and just throw them away). See I can help you to become a cheap
drunk. The bottles cost me though, $3 each new, or you can recycle.

This sounds a bit dear, actually. I doubt that breweries pay a
fraction of that. Of course, they buy them by the pallet load.
Have you checked with one of the glass bottle manufacturers to
get a price on a pallet load? If have other friends who brew,
could always get together and get one.

Does your local council recycle bottles, etc?

It isn't all that difficult to sterilize bottles if they have
only had beer in them. Have you considered asking friendly
neighbors to save their empties for you?





What do you use as a fermentation container? Here, one that
should work well is a large food-grade plastic screw top jar.

I actually have two kits going when I brew , so end up with about 40
litres of happiness. A screw top is better, and any food grade
container can be made into a fermentation device (or still).



From memory, they are about 200 litre capacity, and last I checked were very cheap.

200 litre?!!?!? That would be waaaaaaay cool to do a brew that big,
however the process would be extremely labour intensive. My wife would
divorce me though :-(

If brewing in this quantity, perhaps could get some friends
and/or neighbors to give you a hand. What is the most labour
intensive part of the process, cleaning recycled bottles,
bottling, or what?

I know a fast and easy way to fill bottles, but not sure it would
work well for beer. Not a complex setup. Simplest is probably
a water powered vacuum pump, available at most suppliers of
laboratory equipment, a cork or rubber stopper larger than the
neck of the bottle, a couple of pieces of glass tubing, some lab
tubing.

The water vacuum pump is a small metal gadget that fits on a
standard hose screw fitting that has a built in jet nozzle. The
water flowing through the jet creates a vacuum in the metal body
of the pump, accessed through a tubing fitting on the body.

If close to a school chem lab, the science teacher probably has
one, or can at least look it up in a catalogue for you and show
you a photo of it.

They are usually used to exhaust air from a vacuum desiccators.

Drill or bore the stopper, heat and bend the pyrex tubing to
desired angle. Insert one tube through the cork to desired level
of filling. The other tube is connected to your fermenter.

For a couple of bottles of your brew a science teacher would
probably make one up for you.

The flow of water through the water pump provides a vacuum at the
desired intensity. Put the stopper over the mouth of the bottle,
which will pull a vacuum on the bottle. This will suck in beer
from the fermenter. When it gets to the mouth of the vacuum
tube, lift the stopper to break the vacuum. You cannot overfill
by this method, as excess beer will flow into the vacuum line and
pump.

However, I don't know what level of vacuum you can apply without
sucking the carbonation bubbles out of the beer :-)

A more elegant, but more expensive way to do it is to invest in a
small pump and a spring loaded lever valve to fill the bottle
with beer under pressure. The best sort of pump is a small
electric motor which is magnetically coupled to a small
centrifugal pump, all in one unit. Thus, when you release the
lever on the filling valve, the magnetic coupling allows the
motor to run without trying to spin the pump and try to
pump against the closed valve.

This is definitely the quickest way, and can fill bottles as
quickly as fast as a helper can stack several on the table for
you.

Again, if you know other home brewers, can always rent
out this magnetic pump and motor combo. Pump is nylon, easy to
clean and disinfect by running a bit of dilute sodium
hypochlorite bleach through it.

This, of course, is also a very quick way to clean used bottles,
as the pump will produce 30 PSI or so.

Incidentally, no need to buy supermarket bleach which is usually
from 3 to 5% sodium hypochlorite. Wholesale grocery outlets
often sell catering supplies, including concentrated bleach in 20
litre plastic drums. This is around 25% sodium hypochlorite,
from memory, and 20 litres will last you a long time. You can
dilute it with water to any desired concentration.

With this setup, you can even dispense with bottles altogether,
if desired. Lie on the floor, turn up the music, and fill your
glass as required. :-) Also good for dispensing beer at parties.

Alternatively, of course, you could pressurize your brewing vat
or large container of beer with a rented tank of carbon dioxide
as they sometimes use in pubs. A cheap pressure regulator will
suffice.

For the final touch of elegance, you can get labels printed up
pretty cheaply if you provide the printer with camera ready copy
so they can make an offset plate to print the labels. Any
commercial printer can give you a current quote on this.

In future years, empty bottles with your personal label might
even become collectors items. Leave some blank space on the
label so can use a cheap rubber stamp set to provide a brew date,
variety, etc.

Cheers,
Kangaroo16



Another possibility would be one of the stainless steel beer
barrels often seen stacked outside pubs. These do have a deposit
on them, around $25 from memory, and the publican might part with
one.

I've never fermented in a keg before, I'm a bottle man. Well if you can
get pie-eyed with one bottle then a keg isn't necessary :-D



Another thing you might try, if of an experimental turn of mind,
is to try adding some glucose to speed up initial fermentation.

THe problem with glucose is that it make your beer taste disgusting if
you get it wrong. I just use a yeast starter, and fermentation is very
quick.



Humans, and, from memory, most other animals, and some plants
such as yeast, don't directly utilize table sugar, which is
sucrose or, chemically, C12H22O11.

It's like any sugar it breaks down eventually, and this is an advantage.
The process takes longer to metabolise the sugar, this means there is
sugar to drink, so your beer is sweeter, and if you leave it long enough
the alcohol ramps up, and is drinkable for longer.


Fermentation is not usually much of a problem in warm climates,
but N.Z. isn't as warm as Australia. Before the yeast can
rapidly reproduce, the sucrose has to be broken down to glucose.

I remember one cold winter (which by NZ standards might just be an
average day), the brew didn't start, so I used a hair dryer, a blanket
and a yeast starter and got it going. ONce it was under way it was self
sustaining.


So, just as an experiment, get a couple of the distilled water
jugs, or even Coca-Cola bottles made from "PET" plastic.

Hell no, don't do that, the PET bottle will explode violently. If you
want to ferment in PET bottles then get the OzTops system (naturally I
have this... did I mention I was a cheap drunk?). A bottle of apple
fruit juice, some yeast and one of these special lids, 2 days later
apple cider, leave it longer it gets stronger. Want more fizz, use a
PET bottle.



Incidentally, is distillation legal in N.Z.? When I left the US,
one needed government permission to even own a distillation unit,
even one for distilling water. Australia is somewhat more
tolerant, and allows this. Italian migrants or their
descendents, often use stills to convert home-brewed wine
into "grappa", a potent spirit!

In Oz it is illegal, and you can't legally own a still with a more than
5 litre capacity. The still you can own isn't for alcohol... essential
oils, distilling water, but no booze :-(


Wine, of course, can "go off". So can beer, usually from
contamination from a bacterium that converts the alcohol to
acetic acid, or "vinegar". The genus _Aerobacter_ from memory.


Time will kill the yeast eventually, basically it starves. Pure alcohol
is a different kettle of fish.


Which is more than can be said for some humans who consume too
much of it. Your brew can cause some people to "giggle" at the
sight of a telephone? Drink enough "grappa" or other high
alcohol spirit and you wouldn't even recognise a phone! Or
anything else, for that matter.:-)

I've had some home made grappa, and geez it was rugged.


As far as I know, stills are legal for personal use in Australia,
as long as the product is for ones own use. However, am not sure
this is still the case.

Absolutely true. Worse luck :-(


Regards Charles

On Tue, 16 Oct 2007 20:32:04 -0500, "Del Cecchi"
wrote in
:


"kangaroo16" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 03:25:18 -0700, "Slint Flig"
wrote in
:

Statistically speaking, a guy in
his mid 30s, out with a dog, not making a nuisance of himself is very
unlikely to be stopped and searched. Cops tend to go for teenagers
wearing
tracksuits and baseball caps, swigging from a Buckfast bottle.

Can cops in the UK search people on the street whenever they want to?

A more interesting question is whether cops anywhere in the
world, including the USA, can search anyone, anywhere. The
answer, if you are curious, is a simple "Yes"!

Cheers,
Kangaroo16

But in the US what they find is not admissable in court, unless they have
probably cause etc.

Depends on how technologically equipped the police department is,
though, and what the courts consider as "probable cause", though.

If person "X" is carrying a concealed weapon, and an officer gets
a "hunch" that he is, is that probable cause for a search?

I understand that there are some pretty sophisticated pocket
metal detectors available these days, where an officer can walk
past a person and get a warning that he is carrying likely to be
carrying a weapon. Is this "probable cause"? I suspect that it
would be so considered these days.

There also a sub millimeter radar unit in the works last I heard
which would enable the crew of a patrol car to drive along a
street, or park, and scan all passing pedestrians for weapons
with pretty good visualization of what they are carrying.

If a possibly illegal weapon, I suspect that this would be
considered "probable cause".

In N.S.W, we have random breath tests. Crews set up at random
locations and stop all traffic for a breath test of the driver.
As the warning TV commercial says "If you are over 0.05, you are
under arrest."

They can take you to the nearest doctor or hospital and confirm
this with a blood test, which is a bit more accurate, especially
at marginal levels. The blood is divided into three lots. One
sample is electronically tested at high accuracy. If over 0.05
They keep one as evidence. The other is given to the offending
motorist.

If under, though they let him go. Some states have this in the
USA, but their limit is generally 0.07%.

Actually, 0.05% is the maximum permitted level. For cab, truck,
bus, etc. drivers the maximum allowed is 0.02%

Here the process of getting a license is that a new driver gets
a "learners permit" and the car gets prominently displayed "L"
plates. When he passes the driving exam, he spends the next two
years on Provisional, or "P" plates. From memory, there is no
permitted alcohol level for these drivers. If the police can
prove any significant indication of alcohol consumption, they
lose their license, and have to start again on the two year
period.

In some states they are trialing tests for drugs as well.

NSW is probably more safety conscious than most U.S.
states. Drivers & passengers have to wear seat belts, young
children have to travel in proper safety restraints, depending on
their age. Vehicles have to pass a fairly strict annual
inspection before they get their annual registration. If outside
limits, these must be fixed before the vehicle will be
registered. If a major defect is found, the inspection mechanic
can pull the license plates on the car then and there.
Motorcyclists must wear approved safety helmets. Bicycle riders
and horse riders have to wear a lighter duty, and much cheaper,
approved helmet. Third party insurance to protect passengers,
pedestrians, other road users is compulsory.

Most Australian road users consider all these as pretty sensible.
Needless to say, if tourists rent a car they are expected to obey
the rules. They can usually drive on their U.S. license, though.

Radar speed cameras are becoming increasingly common here.
These just photograph the car, its license plate, and the speeder
gets a ticket in the mail.

On private property, though, most of these aren't binding.
It isn't that unusual to supply a kid with a junker car so he can
drive up to the property line to catch his school bus. I don't
know if any age limitations on this. Doubt it.

Cheers,
Kangaroo16

"Del Cecchi" wrote
A more interesting question is whether cops anywhere in the
world, including the USA, can search anyone, anywhere. The
answer, if you are curious, is a simple "Yes"!
But in the US what they find is not admissable in court, unless they have
probably cause etc.

It's 'probable cause', and the Exclusionary Rule has many exceptions- one of
which is almost bound to cover their search of you at any time, anywhere.
As an example; a 'Terry Stop' allows them to pat you down, handcuff you
during the search, look in your car for weapons, and anything they find
incident to that search is legal. They don't need any 'probable cause' to
search you- the possibility of weapons is that standard.
What they probably can't do it open up closed areas that are not accessible
to the subject without articulable/founded suspicion.
'Law & Order' is probably not a good source for legal information.

Chas

On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 13:37:01 +1000, Chilla
wrote in
:



kangaroo16 wrote:

Easy remedy for this risk, of course. Require all passengers &
staff to travel naked. Once they overcome their initial
shyness, could provide some interesting conversations and
introductions.

It wouldn't be shyness, but trying to conceal an embarrassing boner,
seen the hostesses bending over in front of you? I swear they do this
deliberately.


Regards Charles

Well, I have heard that it isn't unknown for cabin staff to
sometimes seek the attention of likely passengers for
a brief fling in an airline toilet. If they are willing to
attest to this, they qualify for the "mile high club".

Some single passengers might consider this as an
unexpected free service.

It does give a new meaning to "fly united" doesn't it:-)

After sent last post, realised that hadn't replied to all of your
last post. Will do so below.

=========================
I've never fermented in a keg before, I'm a bottle man. Well if
you can
get pie-eyed with one bottle then a keg isn't necessary :-D

Hmm, what size bottle? A "Darwin Stubbie"? ;-)

Another thing you might try, if of an experimental turn of mind,
is to try adding some glucose to speed up initial fermentation.

THe problem with glucose is that it make your beer taste
disgusting if
you get it wrong. I just use a yeast starter, and fermentation
is very
quick.

Does the packet list the ingredients? Sure it isn't mostly
glucose?

Ever try the ancient beverage "Mead". From memory, this was made
from fermentation of honey.



Humans, and, from memory, most other animals, and some plants
such as yeast, don't directly utilize table sugar, which is
sucrose or, chemically, C12H22O11.

It's like any sugar it breaks down eventually, and this is an
advantage.
The process takes longer to metabolise the sugar, this means
there is
sugar to drink, so your beer is sweeter, and if you leave it long
enough
the alcohol ramps up, and is drinkable for longer.


Fermentation is not usually much of a problem in warm climates,
but N.Z. isn't as warm as Australia. Before the yeast can
rapidly reproduce, the sucrose has to be broken down to glucose.

I remember one cold winter (which by NZ standards might just be
an
average day), the brew didn't start, so I used a hair dryer, a
blanket
and a yeast starter and got it going. ONce it was under way it
was self
sustaining.


So, just as an experiment, get a couple of the distilled water
jugs, or even Coca-Cola bottles made from "PET" plastic.

Hell no, don't do that, the PET bottle will explode violently. If
you
want to ferment in PET bottles then get the OzTops system
(naturally I
have this... did I mention I was a cheap drunk?). A bottle of
apple
fruit juice, some yeast and one of these special lids, 2 days
later
apple cider, leave it longer it gets stronger. Want more fizz,
use a
PET bottle.



Incidentally, is distillation legal in N.Z.? When I left the US,
one needed government permission to even own a distillation unit,
even one for distilling water. Australia is somewhat more
tolerant, and allows this. Italian migrants or their
descendents, often use stills to convert home-brewed wine
into "grappa", a potent spirit!

In Oz it is illegal, and you can't legally own a still with a
more than
5 litre capacity. The still you can own isn't for alcohol...
essential
oils, distilling water, but no booze :-(


Wine, of course, can "go off". So can beer, usually from
contamination from a bacterium that converts the alcohol to
acetic acid, or "vinegar". The genus _Aerobacter_ from memory.


Time will kill the yeast eventually, basically it starves. Pure
alcohol
is a different kettle of fish.


Which is more than can be said for some humans who consume too
much of it. Your brew can cause some people to "giggle" at the
sight of a telephone? Drink enough "grappa" or other high
alcohol spirit and you wouldn't even recognise a phone! Or
anything else, for that matter.:-)

I've had some home made grappa, and geez it was rugged.


As far as I know, stills are legal for personal use in Australia,
as long as the product is for ones own use. However, am not sure
this is still the case.

Absolutely true. Worse luck :-(


Regards Charles

kangaroo16 wrote:
Well, I have heard that it isn't unknown for cabin staff to
sometimes seek the attention of likely passengers for
a brief fling in an airline toilet. If they are willing to
attest to this, they qualify for the "mile high club".

Some single passengers might consider this as an
unexpected free service.

It does give a new meaning to "fly united" doesn't it:-)

Wah-LOL (imagine a maniacal laugh)... I've just skulled a bottle of my
black beer and I'll flying myself :-) Talk about double vision... far-out.


After sent last post, realised that hadn't replied to all of your
last post. Will do so below.

=========================
I've never fermented in a keg before, I'm a bottle man. Well if
you can
get pie-eyed with one bottle then a keg isn't necessary :-D

Hmm, what size bottle? A "Darwin Stubbie"? ;-)

I go a standard 750 ml bottle, I don't think I could survive anything
larger! I did mention that my home brew is quite strong? ;-)

I've just re-typed that last sentenced about 5 times :--) I just
noticed that my smiley has two noses.


Another thing you might try, if of an experimental turn of mind,
is to try adding some glucose to speed up initial fermentation.


THe problem with glucose is that it make your beer taste
disgusting if
you get it wrong. I just use a yeast starter, and fermentation
is very
quick.

Does the packet list the ingredients? Sure it isn't mostly
glucose?

Nah not the stuff I buy, I mainly use Coopers, if I use a home-made
recipe my wife gets funny, hops is hormonally active.


Ever try the ancient beverage "Mead". From memory, this was made
from fermentation of honey.

I spent about $70 bucks on honey, both times, and made something
equivalent to grey coloured weed killer. Apparently Australian honey is
full of Eucalyptus, which poisons the yeast, killing it.

If you want to make mead use clover honey (GD! you'd think it would be
easy to type "honey"... bugger).

It feel like someone has replace the bones in my fingers with rubber,
and someone is shaking the world, whilst I stay sill. Inebriation sure
is interesting when you try (I do mean try) to look at it analytically.

Just an addendum, it it 100% illegal to use a still for the making of
alcohol in Australia. This law goes back to the rum corps days, and
hasn't been repealed... b*stards!


Regards Charles from Oz
P.S. Mister Gliddem, I will send you a bottle of the stuff I just skulled.

On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 17:46:27 +1000, Chilla
wrote in
:



kangaroo16 wrote:
Well, I have heard that it isn't unknown for cabin staff to
sometimes seek the attention of likely passengers for
a brief fling in an airline toilet. If they are willing to
attest to this, they qualify for the "mile high club".

Some single passengers might consider this as an
unexpected free service.

It does give a new meaning to "fly united" doesn't it:-)

Wah-LOL (imagine a maniacal laugh)... I've just skulled a bottle of my
black beer and I'll flying myself :-) Talk about double vision... far-out.

You expect "double vision" after 750 ml of home brew, even if it
estimated at 16% - 18%? Possible, of course, as the carbonation
in beer can greatly accelerate the adsorption of alcohol.

As mentioned in earlier post, on my first trip to Queensland back
in the sixties, I noted that some drinkers ordered
a nip or two of O.P. rum in the equivalent of a NSW "middy" glass
and have it filled with beer. What Yanks call a "boilermaker".

I don't remember the strength of 4X or other Aussie beer in those
days, perhaps 6 to 8%. In any case, notably more potent than
US beer. At that time, by Federal law, was a maximum of 3.2%.

Could get a stronger "beer", but it was called "malt liquor", not
beer.

I don't remember the exact percentage of alcohol content of
Bundaberg rum, but it was also pretty potent.

Anyway, the combination of rum and beer made for pretty
a pretty quick effect. The average American traveler
would be wise to avoid getting into a "school" of drinkers,
unless he planned to spend the night in the pub.

I suppose had better explain what is meant by a "school".

Most Aussies don't go into a pub and drink alone. Even if
a newcomer. Aussies are a friendly mob, so they get together in
a group, a "school", and take turns buying the next round
of drinks.

So, even drinking only beer, a newcomer could easily get
fairly drunk. A lot of Aussies were fairly heavy and fast
drinkers, and it was considered most impolite to a join a
"school" and accept free beer and leave before it was their
"shout" to buy the next round, unless they had a reasonable
excuse for it.

With the beer and o.p. rum combination, a tourist could easily
find himself unconscious on the floor if he joined a "school" of
even 4 to 6 drinkers.

For many, possibly less, depending on their capacity to drink.

At the time, have seen a thirsty "wharfie" come into a N.S.W. pub
at knockoff time and order 8 schooners of beer in one go. He
would drink the first four or five like most people would drink
a small glass of water. Straight down. On the fifth or sixth,
might take a couple of swallows to get through the glass.
[A "schooner" in NSW is 425 ml.]

For a chart of beer glass sizes in various states, and a lot of
other misc. interesting info, tourists might like to check this
link:

http://www.bepacked.com/content/Abou...n_au/myths.cfm

As to the O.P. [over proof] rum, it was also potent, but don't
remember the exact strength. "Proof" has slightly different
meanings in the US and Australia.

"Proof strength is 57.1% alcohol by volume at 20C, a
measurement that is English in origin and goes back to the 1700s.
Rum was mixed with gunpowder; if the mixture could then be
ignited, the rum was deemed “proof of strength”
and was subject to customs duty.
l
Americans use a much simpler system: they double the alc/vol and
call it “proof”, so 40% alc/vol is called 80% proof and 45%
alc/vol is 90% proof.
l
Inner Circle won seven Gold and three Double Gold medals in the
first half of 2006. The rum, produced using the pot still method,
comes in three strengths:
Red (40% alc/vol); overproof Green (57.2% alc/vol); and 33 OP
Full Strength Black (75.9% alc/vol)." Mo

www.innercirclerum.com

Anyway, tolerance to alcohol is highly variable from person to
person, so I couldn't give my opinion on your home brew unless
had tried a bottle myself. Even then, the info would be fairly
useless to others. :-)

After sent last post, realised that hadn't replied to all of your
last post. Will do so below.

=========================
I've never fermented in a keg before, I'm a bottle man. Well if
you can
get pie-eyed with one bottle then a keg isn't necessary :-D

Hmm, what size bottle? A "Darwin Stubbie"? ;-)

I go a standard 750 ml bottle, I don't think I could survive anything
larger! I did mention that my home brew is quite strong? ;-)

Yes, but I don't know your tolerance to alcohol. :-)

I've just re-typed that last sentenced about 5 times :--) I just
noticed that my smiley has two noses.

Sounds like it is having an effect. :-) As to the smiley,
though, couldn't it also mean a smiley with a prominent or long
nose?

How would you, or others on the group, interpret the following
"doubling" variations?

::-) , :-))

Or, to be a bit more imaginative, will create some, off the top
of my head, with possible meanings.

::: ) = Invasion by friendly insects
:: = Invasion by unfriendly insects
::: or ::: = invasion by friendly or unfriendly
arachnids ("spiders")
~: = snake invasion
~ ~ ~ ~ xx = fate of snake after meeting
unfriendly human.
::: ::: ::: ::: :::
= housefly or bushfly invasion, of course. If :
could be a fruit bat, of course! :-)

Try these on your mates, and see if they can work out the
meanings without asking! Or invent some of your own.

Uh, or perhaps we shouldn't tell tourists about Australian fruit
bats? In the U.S.A. bats are pretty small. In Oz, of course,
many things are "larger than life".

Pretty harmless, of course, although they are a nuisance in large
flocks.

"The most common is the Spectacled Flying-fox (Pteropus
conspiculatus) which boasts a wingspan of roughly one metre (3
feet). A good place to see these impressive bats rise up from the
canopy and depart for their daily feed is from a boat on the
Daintree River. There are many areas though, even in the inner
suburbs of Cairns, where flying foxes can be seen hanging from
tree branches during the day. A single young is produced in late
spring and females are capable of reproduction at two years of
age. These bats have excellent vision and sense of smell and can
travel up to 20km in one night in search of food." [more at]

http://www.wettropics.gov.au/pa/pa_bats.html

Still, I wouldn't pick up a sick one. Then again, messing with a
large native parrot can be hazardous too. Their bills are very
strong, and can badly bruise or possibly even nip off a finger.
Even my cat won't go near them.


Another thing you might try, if of an experimental turn of mind,
is to try adding some glucose to speed up initial fermentation.


THe problem with glucose is that it make your beer taste
disgusting if
you get it wrong. I just use a yeast starter, and fermentation
is very
quick.

Does the packet list the ingredients? Sure it isn't mostly
glucose?

Nah not the stuff I buy, I mainly use Coopers, if I use a home-made
recipe my wife gets funny, hops is hormonally active.

Wasn't aware of that! Thanks for the info, must check on it.
I do strive to learn something new every day!

Ever try the ancient beverage "Mead". From memory, this was made
from fermentation of honey.

I spent about $70 bucks on honey, both times, and made something
equivalent to grey coloured weed killer. Apparently Australian honey is
full of Eucalyptus, which poisons the yeast, killing it.

Another interesting fact!

If you want to make mead use clover honey (GD! you'd think it would be
easy to type "honey"... bugger).

It feel like someone has replace the bones in my fingers with rubber,
and someone is shaking the world, whilst I stay sill. Inebriation sure
is interesting when you try (I do mean try) to look at it analytically.

True!

Just an addendum, it it 100% illegal to use a still for the making of
alcohol in Australia. This law goes back to the rum corps days, and
hasn't been repealed... b*stards!

There are a lot of old laws, both here and in the USA, and some
haven't been officially repealed. Whether they are usually
enforced is, of course, another matter.

In Queensland, thought it was legal for Italians to distill
"grappa" from wine, but I could easily be wrong on this.

To get back to something a bit more "on topic" for the knife
group, consider something like the charge of "Assault with a
deadly weapon".

What is a "deadly weapon"? If you are a professional boxer, your
fists. If not, how about a sharp pencil, or even a ball point
pen? Or a beer glass?

Which does bring up interesting questions about the charge of
"carrying a deadly weapon", doesn't it?


Regards Charles from Oz
P.S. Mister Gliddem, I will send you a bottle of the stuff I just skulled.

With your description of the effects of same, have you considered
the inclusion of a "warning notice" of some sort? :-)

At least something along the lines of "Imbibe with caution! Keep
away from wives, children and pets, etc." :-)

Anyway, as usual, a pleasure to correspond with you!

"Usenet" groups can bring unexpected pleasurable contacts.

From my point of view, if anyone on either group doesn't like our
correspondence, they don't have to read it, or can "killfile" us.

Or if they can't handle a bit of random input, they could always
form a "moderated" group if they like "censorship" or "net
nannies".

Good luck with the fermentation experiments! I still think that
you could safely add a bit of glucose or even honey, which is a
complex mixture of simple sugars.

Glucose, C6H12O6 is less sweet than table sugar. It promotes
rapid growth of yeast, yet is easily converted to ethanol.

If you can detect the slightest trace of sweetness in the
finished product, I would suggest that you might have tried using
too much.

A tiny amount of glucose will promote the growth of yeast, and
should promote the growth of yeast which will quickly convert it
to alcohol, even before they start on the sucrose, or table
sugar.

You shouldn't be able to detect any trace of sweetness in the
finished product unless you have used too much glucose or
sucrose.

If you use too much of either, of course, the yeast will die from
an excess of alcohol before they can convert it.

IMHO, you could use pure glucose in a brew instead of
sucrose. Not economically useful, though, as glucose is more
expensive than sucrose, or table sugar.

If I were experimenting with fermentation, probably start with
about 5% glucose and 95% sucrose.

From a biochemistry point of view, no sugar of any sugar should
be detectable in the finished brew, as all sugar of any sort will
be converted to alcohol as long as the yeast plants are still
living.

A passing note: In both cooking and brewing, measurement by
volume can be extremely misleading.

These days, it doesn't cost that much to buy an electronic
kitchen scale with accuracy down to one gram. Wife and I have
had one for years now, pretty cheap even then.

Battery operated, has an on/off switch, a grams/ounces switch,
and even more useful a "tare" function.

I can work in the obsolete measurement of ounces, pounds, and so
on, but from a scientific point of view, prefer to work in
metric.

Gradually leading the wife to work in metric. Fortunately, the
bread maker recipe book is in metric.

So take out the pan from the breadmaker, toss it on the scale.
Don't care what it weighs, and don't even know.

Punch the "tare" button, and the scale digitally indicates zero.

Recipe calls for varying amounts of various ingredients, starting
with bread flour. [Which has a higher amount of gluten than
regular flour.]

If the particular recipe for a given type of bread calls for,
say, 500 grams, throw this in until the scale reaches 500 gms.

Push the "tare" button, and display returns to zero. Both the
weight of the pan and the added flour.

Add other ingredients, keep returning to "tare" function.

Stuck for an idea for a Christmas gift to your wife? Consider an
electronic kitchen scale. Of course, this can be used in your
brewing recipes as well, if you want to be scientific about
them....

If like fresh bread, real bread, not the crap available in
supermarkets, then if you really want to "splash out" for
Christmas, buy her an electronic scale and an automatic bread
maker as well.

With luck, she will be so pleased that she won't object to you
spending some "petty cash" on 200 litre plastic jars, a
hydrometer, and so on.

If the alcohol percentage of your home brew is as good as
claimed, you have very good brewers yeast.

There are probably thousands of strains of yeast, and if you have
happened to hit upon a good one, perhaps you should consider
marketing it to other home brewers.

.... Or even license it to commercial brewers. Tell you what, if
I had a strain of yeast that would produce 16 to 18% alcohol by
simple fermentation, I would be seriously considering
capitalizing on my discovery!

Do you consider the soft drink of "Coca-Cola" a good product?
Makes a lot of money worldwide.

Is the "recipe" patented? Not as far as I know. Just "secret".

Anyway, it is pleasant to communicate with you again. Apologies
for not keeping up with Usenet for past couple of days, as have
been busy with other tasks.

Cheers,
Kangaroo16