A Travel and vacations forum. TravelBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » TravelBanter forum » Travelling Style » Air travel
Site Map Home Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Jews Strive To Restore Christmas Trees At Seattle Airport



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #501  
Old December 17th, 2006, 09:17 PM posted to alt.anarchism,alt.atheism,rec.travel.air,soc.culture.jewish
brique
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 143
Default Get the Christ out of Christmas (was: Jews Strive To Restore Christmas Trees At Seattle Airport)


James A. Donald wrote in message
...
Anarcissie
What the lovers of Christmas trees need to do is get
the Christ out of Christmas and make sure the holiday
is as ostensibly pagan or secular -- irreligious -- as
it is in fact. I've already suggested that Christmas be
renamed "Consumermas". Maybe someone can come
up with something better?


"brique"
Kissmyass ..... then you could keep all the songs and not have to change

the
scansion.....


The proposed names show that you guys are not prepared to accept even
the secular aspects of Christmas.


Nope, it shows that a day off work is a day off work and I certainly dont
feel the need to pretend to worship or thank some imaginary deity or their
offspring for it.

If you choose to lie and pretend that you are a 'christian ' too for the
period of the holiday, that is your deception and your problem.



--
----------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.

http://www.jim.com/ James A. Donald



  #502  
Old December 17th, 2006, 09:21 PM posted to alt.anarchism,alt.atheism,rec.travel.air,soc.culture.jewish
Sancho Panza[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 552
Default Jews Strive To Restore Christmas Trees At Seattle Airport


"brique" wrote in message
...

But at no time did the rabbi demand the removal of thr trees, he demanded
parity in display of religous symbols in public spaces at public expense,
as the Supreme Court precedent had held he was perfectly entitled to do.


Oh, please. Parity is a compeletely alien concept for a certain mind-set.


  #503  
Old December 17th, 2006, 09:28 PM posted to alt.anarchism,alt.atheism,rec.travel.air,soc.culture.jewish
brique
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 143
Default Jews Strive To Restore Christmas Trees At Seattle Airport


James A. Donald wrote in message
...
"brique":
Then your problem is not with secular groups or even
'christmas-haters', your problem is competing
religious groups trying to grab a share of publically
funded propaganda material


Kwanza is not a competing religious group. It is
fictitious celebration concocted for the sole purpose of
being nasty and confrontional at Christmas time. Its
purpose is to be an unchristmas.


So? You object to religious freedom? Kwanza is made up? So what, news flash
james, they all are. Every one of them was created by men, everyone of their
'holy scripts' was written by men. And all those men claimed divine
assistance and revelation thus assuring the putative followers that this
_one_ was the 'TRUE FAITH'. But James, they can't all be the 'TRUE FAITH',
if _one_ is, then the rest are made up. Now, tell us which _one_ is the
'TRUE FAITH', which _one_ wasn't made up and tell us how you know that _one_
wasn't made up. You can't, except by claiming 'FAITH' as your guide, same as
all the folk claiming a different _one_ as the 'TRUE FAITH'..
Kwanza has the dubious merit of being probably the only formalised religon
which doesn't deny it was made up by men, to serve the purposes of men and
oddly, that honesty proabbly makes it best contender for a 'TRUE FAITH' for
the excellent reason, it is not a based on a lie.
As for the Kwanza posiiton on christmas, so what?, Do christians defend the
right of Gaians to recieve public funding of their symbols?. No, they
don't, but they damn well claim that right for themselves. That must be the
'love thy neighbour' clause in action, heh?


....
--
----------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.

http://www.jim.com/ James A. Donald



  #504  
Old December 17th, 2006, 09:55 PM posted to alt.abortion,alt.anarchism,alt.atheism,rec.travel.air,soc.culture.jewish
brique
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 143
Default Jews Strive To Restore Christmas Trees At Seattle Airport


James A. Donald wrote in message
...
Frank Mayhar
What the **** does being or not being a christian have
to do with Xmas? Sure, Christianity co-opted the
holiday for their own purposes, but virtually none of
the trappings are Xtian. Santa, trees, gift-giving,
mistletoe, you name it. Hell, even the "birthday of
Christ" thing was lifted intact from older religions.


It is the sun that is reborn on Christmas day.


Nope, that would be the Winter Solstice, when the longest night of the year
is broken by the dawn. that is the return of the sun. And as the suns
relative position to any place on the earth will cause that Solstice to
occur at a different date in different places.



Christians don't even pretend that Christ was born on
Christmas day - they just choose to celebrate his birth
on the same day that people celebrate the rebirth of the
sun.


No, it is not the same date, the date of the Winter Solstice varies dependng
on ones posiiton on the globe, its why the Antipodean Winter Solstice occurs
roughly the same time as the European Summer Solstice...

Jews and Muslims should do the same. Jews should
put up trees filled with symbols of life and growth and
snow beginning to melt and give presents on the day that
the sun grows stronger, and the rabbi should piously
announce that since no one actually knows what day the
foundation stone of the temple was laid, they are
commemorating the building of the temple or some such,
by merriment, getting together with family, and being
mindful of peace on earth and goodwill to all men.
Indeed in Dubai, the only major place on earth that
contains a reasonable supply of that semi mythical
creature, the moderate Muslim, the moderate Muslims are
quietly sliding towards doing exactly that "ummh, we
Muslims celebrate Christs birth also - especially in
shopping malls"


So, your solution is that everyone should become christians, if not, they
should at least pretend to be christians. So, will you return that
respectful gesture by fasting during Ramadan? Will you synbolically bath in
the Potomac in solidarity with the Hindus bathing in the Ganges? Will you
don a kippa and recite the Torah at Seder? Will you light candles at your
ancestors graves and bang drums all night to keep the shintoists happy?
Or is it all one-way traffic, as usual?



--
----------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.

http://www.jim.com/ James A. Donald



  #505  
Old December 17th, 2006, 09:57 PM posted to alt.anarchism,alt.atheism,rec.travel.air,soc.culture.jewish
brique
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 143
Default Jews Strive To Restore Christmas Trees At Seattle Airport


Sancho Panza wrote in message
...

"James A. Donald" wrote in message
...

There is no concession that can possibly be made: as
long as Christmas remains a *national* holiday, it is in
your eyes an affront to the Jewish *nation*, while
Hindus, not having a Hindu nation,


The ignorance marches on. India is only the largest democracy in the

world.

the 'hindu-ness' of India was considerably helped by Partition which meant
hivng the muslims off into their own patch of the continent..... still thats
a ploy which still has its adherents even today....





  #506  
Old December 17th, 2006, 10:09 PM posted to alt.atheism,alt.anarchism,rec.travel.air,soc.culture.jewish
brique
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 143
Default Jews Strive To Restore Christmas Trees At Seattle Airport


wrote in message
ups.com...

Arturo Magidin wrote:
In article .com,
wrote:

Al Klein wrote:
On 14 Dec 2006 04:47:51 -0800, wrote:

Lets be clear about this, The Rabbi wanted to display the national
emblem of the "STATE" OF ISRAEL at Seattle intenational airport:

No, he wanted to display a Chanukiyah, not a candelabrum.

He wanted to display a Menorah (which is most definately a candelabrum,
as defined in any english dictionary).

Are you saying a Chanukiah is not a menorah?


A Hanukiyah is a "Hanukah Menorah".

A prairie dog is not a dog.


??? We are talking about candelbras.


"Menorah", CORRECTLY USED, refers only to a 7 branch candelabrum,
while "Hanukiyah", or "Hanukah Menorah" (other transliterations
acceptable), CORRECTLY USED, refers only to a 9 branch candelabrum.


Nonesense, you are making up your own rules of "correctness" for the
terms that are used.
Either way, it makes no ****ing difference. A menorah is still
identifiable as one, no matter howmany candles it's got. Nobody apart
from jews gices a **** how many candles it's got, and nobody else uses
one as a state emblem apart from Israel and now amount of shystering
will change realty.


It is a common mistake to refer to the latter simply as "menorah";
however, it is a mistake.


No it's not.


Are you saying the the Israeli state emblem is not a Menorah?


The emblem of the state of Israel includes a 7 branch candelabrum,
i.e., a menorah.

Hanukah displays do not include 7 branch candelabra; they include 9
branch candelabra. Different things. Just like a collie is not the
same as a doberman, even if they are both dogs (just in case you are
still being thick: in my analogy, "dog" is equivalent to
"candelabrum").


Irrelevant.
Under copyright and design rules one would be an infringment of the
other.


So, the American flag has 5 red stripes, 3 white stripes, and 39 green stars
on a black rectangle in the lower right hand corner..... well, close enough,
eh?



Are you saying that Menorahs are not candelabra?

7 or 9 candles it's still a Menorah and a Candelabrum.


No. 7 or 9 branches, still a candelabrum. But to be a "menorah", it
must have 7 branches. No more, no less.


Wrong:
http://tinyurl.com/y2umzr

It's still a Menorah, and what the Rabbi asked for.



One is not the other, any more than a PLO flag is a US flag.

It's a jewish Menorah, wether it's got 7 or 9 bloody candles, and
nobody else uses it as the national emblem.


Both the 7 and the 9 branch candelabra are jewish candelabra. Seems
like that is what is really up your ass.


??? The national state symbol of Israel is a jewish menorah candelabra
and what the Rabbi wanted to erect was a jewish menorah candelabra.


As for the "national emblem", what's your big problem? Did you shoot
off your fingers with daddy's shotgun and cannot count beyond 3? 7 is
not the same as 9. The national emblem has SEVEN branches. No more, no
less. Anything else is NOT the national emblem of Israel, just like
not just any eagle is "the national emblem of the U.S.".


The bald eagle is the US emblem no matter how many feathers it's got.
The US emblem is not a christmas tree.



It's the same as if the US national emblem were a christmas tree
instead of a bald eagle.


It's as if you had actual functioning neurons instead of
****-for-brains.


Hehehe, you're just ****ed because you lost the argument.



--
================================================== ====================
"It is good to see the fine old traditions of idiot bigotry
being handed down in a no-good-at-all kind of way."
--- Moist von Lipwig, _Going Postal_ by Terry Pratchett
================================================== ====================

Arturo Magidin
magidin-at-member-ams-org




  #507  
Old December 17th, 2006, 11:31 PM posted to alt.anarchism,alt.atheism,rec.travel.air,soc.culture.jewish
Dan Clore
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15
Default Get the Christ out of Christmas

brique wrote:
Anarcissie wrote in message
ups.com...
James A. Donald wrote:


...
We already had this business over mangers. The Supreme
court took the position that you could have a manger,
provided it was a minor part of a secular christmas
display. But then every manger was met by an unending
stream of "requests", until no one dared put out a
manger. And now that we have conceded no mangers, the
same tactic is being applied to ensure no Christmas
trees either.


What the lovers of Christmas trees need to do is get
the Christ out of Christmas and make sure the holiday
is as ostensibly pagan or secular -- irreligious -- as
it is in fact. I've already suggested that Christmas be
renamed "Consumermas". Maybe someone can come
up with something better?

Kissmyass ..... then you could keep all the songs and not have to change the
scansion.....


Or we could use the term used by English Puritans when they
banned the holiday as a devilish invention of Satanic
Papists, in 1652: Antichrist's Mass. (Washington Irving
quotes this in an essay on the celebration of Christmas in
England in _The Sketchbook_. He reports that the local
pastor where he attended Christmas services gave a lengthy
sermon justifying the holiday because of this controversy
(in 1820!). This same pastor also demanded that all
decorations that included mistletoe be taken down because
they were remnants of Druidism.)

--
Dan Clore

My collected fiction, _The Unspeakable and Others_:
http://amazon.com/o/ASIN/1587154838/...edanclorenecro
Lord Weÿrdgliffe & Necronomicon Page:
http://www.geocities.com/clorebeast/
News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo

Strange pleasures are known to him who flaunts the
immarcescible purple of poetry before the color-blind.
-- Clark Ashton Smith, "Epigrams and Apothegms"
  #508  
Old December 17th, 2006, 11:44 PM posted to alt.atheism,alt.abortion,alt.anarchism,rec.travel.air,soc.culture.jewish
James A. Donald
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 158
Default Jews Strive To Restore Christmas Trees At Seattle Airport

"James A. Donald"
My family comes to stay with me for Christmas, we
exchange gifts, and then on Christmas day or
christmas eve, we phone up relatives in other lands,
and hear about babies and new houses and stuff, and
get photos and news of how people I knew as children
are growing up.


"PTravel"
Ergo, everyone does?


Most people do something similar, regardless of their
religion, and it is perfectly reasonable to put up a
tree to anticipate and foreshadow this widely practiced
secular event, while not putting up stuff to foreshadow
little practiced non events.

I've explained, at length, why Christmas is neither
universal nor all-sectarian.


For a suitable definition of universal, nothing is
universal.

Most of the people going through Seattle airport will be
eagerly anticipating what the Christmas trees symbolize.
Will even one person be eagerly anticipating whatever it
is that an eight foot menorah amidst Christmas trees
symbolizes?

--
----------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.

http://www.jim.com/ James A. Donald
  #509  
Old December 18th, 2006, 12:22 AM posted to alt.abortion,alt.anarchism,alt.atheism,rec.travel.air,soc.culture.jewish
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 37
Default Jews Strive To Restore Christmas Trees At Seattle Airport

brique wrote:
James A. Donald wrote in message
...

[...]
Jews and Muslims should do the same. Jews should
put up trees filled with symbols of life and growth and
snow beginning to melt and give presents on the day that
the sun grows stronger, and the rabbi should piously
announce that since no one actually knows what day the
foundation stone of the temple was laid, they are
commemorating the building of the temple or some such,
by merriment, getting together with family, and being
mindful of peace on earth and goodwill to all men.
Indeed in Dubai, the only major place on earth that
contains a reasonable supply of that semi mythical
creature, the moderate Muslim, the moderate Muslims are
quietly sliding towards doing exactly that "ummh, we
Muslims celebrate Christs birth also - especially in
shopping malls"


So, your solution is that everyone should become christians, if not, they
should at least pretend to be christians. So, will you return that
respectful gesture by fasting during Ramadan? Will you synbolically bath in
the Potomac in solidarity with the Hindus bathing in the Ganges? Will you
don a kippa and recite the Torah at Seder? Will you light candles at your
ancestors graves and bang drums all night to keep the shintoists happy?
Or is it all one-way traffic, as usual?


Off the top of my head, I can think of major community-inclusive
celebrations in San Francisco for St. Patrick's Day, Chinese New Year,
the Japanese Cherry Blossom Festival, Dias de los Muertos, Cinco de
Mayo, Carnaval, Pride, and others, where probably a majority if not an
overwhelming majority of the celebrants are not culturally or
religiously affiliated with that of the celebration, or even really
know in any detail what the original cultural or religious significance
of the celebration is.

If somebody's going to throw a party, why not take advantage of it? If
the Hindu community had a big Diwali celebration that was open to the
whole community, people would go and celebrate. They probably do in
the south bay.

What I would view as odd, distasteful, or even possibly deranged is if,
say, some part of the Irish community, rather than have an inclusive
St. Patrick's Day celebration, threatened to sue the city to revoke its
licenses if the Chinese New Year parade did not include shamrocks and
green beer.

- Nate

  #510  
Old December 18th, 2006, 12:26 AM posted to alt.anarchism,alt.atheism,rec.travel.air,soc.culture.jewish
James A. Donald
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 158
Default Jews Strive To Restore Christmas Trees At Seattle Airport

On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 16:27:21 -0800, Tchiowa wrote:
Simply not true. A lot of non-Christians including
members of other religions and atheists who
celebrate Christmas as a non-religious holiday put
them up.


"Mark K. Bilbo"
And who started the modern holiday? What was it for?


It was practiced by the Romans, well before the birth of
Christ. No one knows who started it.

--
----------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.

http://www.jim.com/ James A. Donald
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Seattle Hotel/airport 0 O Cruises 0 April 4th, 2004 03:28 PM
SEATTLE AIRPORT HOTEL 0 O Cruises 1 April 3rd, 2004 10:42 PM
Best travel method from Seattle Airport to Seattle or Vancover cruise port Adelphia News Cruises 4 March 31st, 2004 05:14 PM
Many persons strive for high ideals. La Site Australia & New Zealand 0 January 26th, 2004 05:05 AM
Seattle Airport Shuttles WolfpackFan Cruises 4 December 20th, 2003 02:32 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:13 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 TravelBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.