Jews Strive To Restore Christmas Trees At Seattle Airport

James A. Donald:
There was no manger at the airport, nor any prayer.
The airport Christmas was carefully sanitized of
anything with the slightest connection to
Christianity.

Mike Hunt
Nonsense. Why do you think it is called CHRISTmas?

Pretty much the same reason as Saint Valentine's day is
called saint valentine's day.

--
----------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.

http://www.jim.com/ James A. Donald

James A. Donald:
But if secular trees are objectionable, then any
money spent on the holiday is objectionable, then
the holiday itself is objectionable - after all the
holiday must cost the government money.

"PTravel"
Sorry, but that makes no sense whatsoever. Christmas
isn't objectionable. No one thinks so, and certainly
no one has said so. What is objectionable is
government subsidization of the cultural traditions
particular to one religion, particularly to the
exclusion of all others.

But you have just told us that Christmas is a cultural
traditions particular to one religion

In which case, according to your interpretation of the
first amendment, Christmas has got to go.

--
----------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.

http://www.jim.com/ James A. Donald

On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 13:00:12 -0500, "Sancho Panza"
wrote:


wrote in message
oups.com...

Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 17:51:18 -0800, Sancho Panza wrote:

Mark K. Bilbo wrote:
On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 17:42:19 -0500, Al Klein wrote:

On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 10:35:17 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo"
wrote:

On Fri, 15 Dec 2006 04:44:06 +0000, flaviaR wrote:

On 14-Dec-2006, "Mark K. Bilbo" wrote:

On Thu, 14 Dec 2006 10:36:56 -0800, markzoom wrote:


In a way that would be victory for the zionist Rabbi too....
and a blow
to freedom.

Not having tax funded blinky lights on plastic trees is a "blow
to
freedom?"

Maybe to kooks...

Certainly to those who expose themselves and their
politics so thoroughly as markzoom. Or did you miss
what he called the rabbi....? I left it in, above....

Oh I've seen the rants about the US being run by Da Jooos!!! That's
why I
used the word "kook." G

And where did the news story say that the rabbi was a Zionist? Or
are
all "Jooz" supposed to be Zionists?

They run all the banks you know!

Actually, the largest bank is owned by a sheik from the Saudi royal
family.

Shhh! You'll spoil his fun!

Stay duped and stupid then, your loss.

Why? Is that statement about the largest bank incorrect in some way?

Your claim is a statement that Jooz aren't responsible for all the
ebil in the world, and not believing that is "being duped".
--
rukbat at optonline dot net
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of
themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts."
- Bertrand Russell
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)

Ray Fischer wrote:
Why do you religious bigots never seem to realize that when you resort
to such transparent lies it proves that you really don't give a ****
about being a Christian?

Tchiowa:
To start with, I'm not a Christian.


And neither am I.

Me neither. I doubt that any of the posters defending Christmas in
this thread are Christians.

--
----------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.

http://www.jim.com/ James A. Donald

James A. Donald wrote in message
...
"James A. Donald"
My family comes to stay with me for Christmas, we
exchange gifts, and then on Christmas day or
christmas eve, we phone up relatives in other lands,
and hear about babies and new houses and stuff, and
get photos and news of how people I knew as children
are growing up.

"PTravel"
Ergo, everyone does?

Most people do something similar, regardless of their
religion, and it is perfectly reasonable to put up a
tree to anticipate and foreshadow this widely practiced
secular event, while not putting up stuff to foreshadow
little practiced non events.

I've explained, at length, why Christmas is neither
universal nor all-sectarian.

For a suitable definition of universal, nothing is
universal.

Most of the people going through Seattle airport will be
eagerly anticipating what the Christmas trees symbolize.
Will even one person be eagerly anticipating whatever it
is that an eight foot menorah amidst Christmas trees
symbolizes?

Oh, is there some federal law that prevents jews using Seattle Airport then?

Makes one wonder why they bother with direct flights to Israel from it....


--
----------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.

http://www.jim.com/ James A. Donald

"James A. Donald" wrote in message
...
"James A. Donald"
My family comes to stay with me for Christmas, we
exchange gifts, and then on Christmas day or
christmas eve, we phone up relatives in other lands,
and hear about babies and new houses and stuff, and
get photos and news of how people I knew as children
are growing up.

"PTravel"
Ergo, everyone does?

Most people do something similar, regardless of their
religion,

So you keep saying. And, sorry, you're wrong. Jews don't do this. Neither
do Muslims. Neither do Buddhists (at least not the ones that I know).

Most people of Christian heritage (who may or may not be Christian) do this.


and it is perfectly reasonable to put up a
tree to anticipate and foreshadow this widely practiced
secular event, while not putting up stuff to foreshadow
little practiced non events.

Calling it a secular event doesn't make it so.


I've explained, at length, why Christmas is neither
universal nor all-sectarian.

For a suitable definition of universal, nothing is
universal.

Well, let's come up with a working definition. How about, "cutting across
all cultural lines." Thanksgiving does that. So does the Fourth of July.
Christmas most certainly doesn't.


Most of the people going through Seattle airport will be
eagerly anticipating what the Christmas trees symbolize.
Will even one person be eagerly anticipating whatever it
is that an eight foot menorah amidst Christmas trees
symbolizes?

Hey, my personal preference would be that none of this stuff go up -- I
don't want tax dollars paying for menorahs, either.



--
----------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.

http://www.jim.com/ James A. Donald

Sancho Panza wrote in message
...

"brique" wrote in message
...

But at no time did the rabbi demand the removal of thr trees, he
demanded
parity in display of religous symbols in public spaces at public
expense,
as the Supreme Court precedent had held he was perfectly entitled to do.

Oh, please. Parity is a compeletely alien concept for a certain mind-set.


Oh, dont worry, james will just explain why 'parity' really means that the
rabbi was demanding publicaly funded slave camps and compulsory tree-worship
in public schools.

Then Constance will chip in explaining that only a moron would think that
parity had nothing to do with mass slaughter of kulaks and worship of Pol
Pot and Castro.

That should be good for a laugh.

"James A. Donald" wrote in message
...
James A. Donald:
But if secular trees are objectionable, then any
money spent on the holiday is objectionable, then
the holiday itself is objectionable - after all the
holiday must cost the government money.

"PTravel"
Sorry, but that makes no sense whatsoever. Christmas
isn't objectionable. No one thinks so, and certainly
no one has said so. What is objectionable is
government subsidization of the cultural traditions
particular to one religion, particularly to the
exclusion of all others.

But you have just told us that Christmas is a cultural
traditions particular to one religion

That's right.


In which case, according to your interpretation of the
first amendment, Christmas has got to go.

Only in the context of federal subsidy, endorsement and prefererance. I
certainly want everyone who wants to to continue putting up the brightest,
shiniest trees and lights imaginable (and, for that matter, mangers and
crosses) if that's what they enjoy doing at this time of year. I want Jews
to put up towering, hulking 100 foot menorahs as tall as skyscrapers, if
that's what they want. But I don't want either done with government money,
and I'd prefer it not be done on government land.

--
----------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.

http://www.jim.com/ James A. Donald

Dan Clore wrote in message
...
brique wrote:
Anarcissie wrote in message
ups.com...
James A. Donald wrote:

...
We already had this business over mangers. The Supreme
court took the position that you could have a manger,
provided it was a minor part of a secular christmas
display. But then every manger was met by an unending
stream of "requests", until no one dared put out a
manger. And now that we have conceded no mangers, the
same tactic is being applied to ensure no Christmas
trees either.

What the lovers of Christmas trees need to do is get
the Christ out of Christmas and make sure the holiday
is as ostensibly pagan or secular -- irreligious -- as
it is in fact. I've already suggested that Christmas be
renamed "Consumermas". Maybe someone can come
up with something better?

Kissmyass ..... then you could keep all the songs and not have to change
the
scansion.....

Or we could use the term used by English Puritans when they
banned the holiday as a devilish invention of Satanic
Papists, in 1652: Antichrist's Mass. (Washington Irving
quotes this in an essay on the celebration of Christmas in
England in _The Sketchbook_. He reports that the local
pastor where he attended Christmas services gave a lengthy
sermon justifying the holiday because of this controversy
(in 1820!). This same pastor also demanded that all
decorations that included mistletoe be taken down because
they were remnants of Druidism.)

They had a bit of a downer on icons, dancing, singing and any sign of
public enjoyment, regardless of the date.


--
Dan Clore

My collected fiction, _The Unspeakable and Others_:
http://amazon.com/o/ASIN/1587154838/...edanclorenecro
Lord Weÿrdgliffe & Necronomicon Page:
http://www.geocities.com/clorebeast/
News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo

Strange pleasures are known to him who flaunts the
immarcescible purple of poetry before the color-blind.
-- Clark Ashton Smith, "Epigrams and Apothegms"

"Tchiowa":
Christmas is a holiday where the family shares time
and gifts and happiness together. Sorry if your family
never understood that.

Seems to me that every religion should be lining up to
sponsor christmas, in much the way that various
sportsgear manufacturers line up to sponsor the
superbowl, rather than having sour grapes because some
other religion was first to make hay with the idea.

"Hey, here are big bunch of people being nice to
others and having a good time. Let us get our
brand name on this!"

If you are Jewish, just call it jewmas, and put a little
stone at the base of the jewmas tree instead of a star
at the top, and explain that the stone commemorates the
foundation of the temple.

Then you can go around wishing everyone a merry jewmas,
and they will, after a few moments puzzlement and
confusion, wish you back a merry christmas.

--
----------------------
We have the right to defend ourselves and our property, because
of the kind of animals that we are. True law derives from this
right, not from the arbitrary power of the omnipotent state.

http://www.jim.com/ James A. Donald