Boeing to delay first delivery of 787

http://uk.biz.yahoo.com/10102007/325...ivery-787.html

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Boeing BA.N on Wednesday pushed back first
deliveries of its 787 Dreamliner by at least six months as it
struggles to assemble the new lightweight, carbon-composite plane.

The delay is an embarrassing setback for Boeing (NYSE: BA - news) ,
which has for months insisted it would meet its delivery timetable,
and mirrors delays suffered by rival Airbus (Paris: NL0000235190 -
news) EAD.PA on its A380 superjumbo.

Boeing, which has orders for more than 700 of the 787 planes from 48
airlines and leasing companies, said the delay would not affect
earnings and it kept its financial forecast for this year and next
unchanged.

Boeing shares fell $3.10, or 3.1 percent, to $98.35 on the New York
Stock Exchange. Shares of key suppliers like Spirit Aerosystems
Holdings SPR.N and Rockwell Collins (NYSE: COL - news) COL.N also
fell.

The Chicago-based company said 787 deliveries are slated to begin in
late November or December 2008, versus an original target of May 2008.

The delay is a blow to Japan's All Nippon Airways (Frankfurt: 861920 -
news) 9202.T, the first 787 customer, which was hoping to ferry
passengers to next summer's Beijing Olympic Games in the initial
planes of its planned 50-strong 787 fleet.

FIRST FLIGHT

ALSO PUT BACK

Boeing blamed the delivery delay on continuing problems with flight
control software, being produced by Honeywell International HON.N,
and integrating other systems on the plane, which it did not detail.

It said it now expects the first test flight of the 787 to take place
"around the end of the first quarter" next year, suggesting it could
be as late as March or even April 2008.

That is a drastic extension to its original plan to start airborne
tests in August 2007. In early September, Boeing scheduled the first
test flight for mid-November to mid-December as it wrestled with
software problems and a shortage of bolts.

Boeing said the new schedule restores some margin to deal with
unexpected problems that might appear during flight testing. If Boeing
sticks to its new schedule, it could have eight months to complete
flight testing, as opposed to six months on its previous estimate.
Flight testing on Boeing's last new airliner, the 777, took 11 months.

"We deeply regret the impact these delays will have on our customers,
and we are committed to working with them to minimize any disruption
to their plans," said Scott Carson, chief executive of Boeing's
commercial airplanes unit, in a statement.

Boeing did not say whether it would have to pay any penalties or other
compensation to customers, which is standard in the industry when a
plane's delivery is delayed.

On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 12:33:01 -0700 'spanka'
wrote this on rec.travel.air:

http://uk.biz.yahoo.com/10102007/325...ivery-787.html

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Boeing BA.N on Wednesday pushed back first
deliveries of its 787 Dreamliner by at least six months as it
struggles to assemble the new lightweight, carbon-composite plane.

Meanwhile the first commercial flight of the A380 happens in less
than 2 weeks. Singapore to Sydney.

On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 00:41:38 +0100, zonedout
wrote:


On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 12:33:01 -0700 'spanka'
wrote this on rec.travel.air:

http://uk.biz.yahoo.com/10102007/325...ivery-787.html

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Boeing BA.N on Wednesday pushed back first
deliveries of its 787 Dreamliner by at least six months as it
struggles to assemble the new lightweight, carbon-composite plane.

Meanwhile the first commercial flight of the A380 happens in less
than 2 weeks. Singapore to Sydney.

Yeah, only 2 years and several billions dollars late. And, of course,
it doesn't compete with the 787. The 787 competes with the new A350
whose first expected delivery is sometime in 2013.

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In rec.travel.air John Kulp wrote:

Yeah, only 2 years and several billions dollars late. And, of course,
it doesn't compete with the 787. The 787 competes with the new A350
whose first expected delivery is sometime in 2013.

That isn't the point. The point is that Boeing insisted that
the delays that plagued the A380 wouldn't happen with the B787.. Yet,
here they are, with delays on the B787. For Boeing, it's "Hello Face,
I'm Egg."

BL.
- --
Brad Littlejohn | Email:
Unix Systems Administrator, |
Web + NewsMaster, BOFH.. Smeghead! | http://www.wizard.com/~tyketto
PGP: 1024D/E319F0BF 6980 AAD6 7329 E9E6 D569 F620 C819 199A E319 F0BF

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On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 06:05:35 GMT, A Guy Called Tyketto
wrote:

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In rec.travel.air John Kulp wrote:

Yeah, only 2 years and several billions dollars late. And, of course,
it doesn't compete with the 787. The 787 competes with the new A350
whose first expected delivery is sometime in 2013.

That isn't the point. The point is that Boeing insisted that
the delays that plagued the A380 wouldn't happen with the B787.. Yet,
here they are, with delays on the B787. For Boeing, it's "Hello Face,
I'm Egg."


So did Airbus. So what's the big deal? The 787 is infinitely more
successful than the A380 which may well never be profitable and then
tried to flog a basic A350 as an alternative to the 787 which
absolutely no one wanted. New aircraft delays are nothing new anyway.
Big deal.

On Oct 11, 9:05 am, (John Kulp) wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 06:05:35 GMT, A Guy Called Tyketto

wrote:
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In rec.travel.air John Kulp wrote:

Yeah, only 2 years and several billions dollars late. And, of course,
it doesn't compete with the 787. The 787 competes with the new A350
whose first expected delivery is sometime in 2013.

That isn't the point. The point is that Boeing insisted that
the delays that plagued the A380 wouldn't happen with the B787.. Yet,
here they are, with delays on the B787. For Boeing, it's "Hello Face,
I'm Egg."

So did Airbus. So what's the big deal? The 787 is infinitely more
successful than the A380 which may well never be profitable and then
tried to flog a basic A350 as an alternative to the 787 which
absolutely no one wanted. New aircraft delays are nothing new anyway.
Big deal.

I'm sorta in between these two points of view. There was alot of
"I told ya so's" running around when Airbus got into their troubles.
It kinda slammed their stock too when the announcements were
made. I would expect some investor concern for Boeing as well.

The flip side of that is that predominately Boeing's problems
are supplier part availability issues, not fundamental design or
weight problems that the A380 ran into. Boeing's schedule
was always agressive bordering on insane and they've basically
finally fessed up. Although I also suspect there are more delays
to come. They've got major tests to pass and much of it will be
on new composite material designs, not just some variation of
aluminum alloys.

But in the end they have orders for something like 750 of
the 787 and if they are anywhere close to successful, they'll
probably sell alot more than that. On the other hand,
the A380 has always been a question mark on just how
many they'll ultimately sell. So although investors might
get a bit jittery in the short term, I suspect no one is worried
that the 787 is gonna be some profit busting white elephant
in the long run. The A380 on the other hand.......

"John Kulp" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 06:05:35 GMT, A Guy Called Tyketto
wrote:

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Hash: SHA1

In rec.travel.air John Kulp wrote:

Yeah, only 2 years and several billions dollars late. And, of course,
it doesn't compete with the 787. The 787 competes with the new A350
whose first expected delivery is sometime in 2013.

That isn't the point. The point is that Boeing insisted that
the delays that plagued the A380 wouldn't happen with the B787.. Yet,
here they are, with delays on the B787. For Boeing, it's "Hello Face,
I'm Egg."


So did Airbus. So what's the big deal? The 787 is infinitely more
successful than the A380 which may well never be profitable

It doesn't matter.

This is the airline industry.

All that matters is profits.

The next major market to open up will be the long haul routes between India
and China to Europe and the USA.

The capacity needed will be vast as both the tourist and business markets
expand exponentially over the next few years.

The A380 addresses this market, which is already dominated by Airbus
products. The 787 is just another 300 seater wide-bodied jet.


--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 15:31:48 +0100, "William Black"
wrote:



So did Airbus. So what's the big deal? The 787 is infinitely more
successful than the A380 which may well never be profitable

It doesn't matter.

This is the airline industry.

All that matters is profits.

Like every other company and industry on earth.


The next major market to open up will be the long haul routes between India
and China to Europe and the USA.

Gee, another great surprise. What do you think they're developing
these new aircraft for?


The capacity needed will be vast as both the tourist and business markets
expand exponentially over the next few years.

Baloney. They will increase incrementally, which has long since been
planned for.


The A380 addresses this market, which is already dominated by Airbus
products. The 787 is just another 300 seater wide-bodied jet.


Baloney again. Airbus is having huge problems selling the A380
because airports have to be rebuilt among other things and most of the
demand can be met with other aircraft that don't have this
requirement. Like the 787 and newer versions of the 747.

On Oct 11, 11:33 am, (John Kulp) wrote:
On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 15:31:48 +0100, "William Black"
[snip]
The A380 addresses this market, which is already dominated by Airbus
products. The 787 is just another 300 seater wide-bodied jet.

Baloney again. Airbus is having huge problems selling the A380
because airports have to be rebuilt among other things and most of the
demand can be met with other aircraft that don't have this
requirement. Like the 787 and newer versions of the 747.

Well, you're basically rearguing the Boeing and Airbus positions.
Boeing has tried to sell stretch 747's to compete with the A380
but couldn't sell any. Flip side is that Boeing is selling 787's
hand over fist and Airbus has currently peaked with the A380.
The question still remains, once the uncertainties around
the A380 are worked out, will the markets support/demand
the aircraft in sufficient numbers? We know the market is
there for the 787. Boeing was betting that there wouldn't
be one for an A380 size (in sufficient numbers to try to
bother making one). Airbus was accused of going into the
market because they had nothing in the 747 size and
they hoped to take over the market. Time will tell whether
either was correct.

Boeing believes that when the Asian markets take off,
their will be sufficient demand to support alot of 787's
flying direct to major desitinations, as oppose to
huge A380's flying to a few major hubs. I suspect there
may be enough market for both of them. But there may
never be a market big enough for two A380 size aircraft.

"John Kulp" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 11 Oct 2007 15:31:48 +0100, "William Black"
wrote:

Baloney again. Airbus is having huge problems selling the A380
because airports have to be rebuilt among other things and most of the
demand can be met with other aircraft that don't have this
requirement. Like the 787 and newer versions of the 747.

The two major airports involved in the India/Europe trade (Heathrow and
Bombay) are already committed to a 'double decker' type bridge suitable for
the A380.

The major problem at Bombay is the level of flights with international
flights already being challenged for slots.

There are no more slots there, the only solution is bigger aircraft.

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.