Co-pilot gets sick, stewardess helps land airplane

Hatunen writes:

While a heavy jet is a big sucker with a very complex panel
(although lighter aircraft are now sporting some pretty
compicated-looking electronci panels now) the principals are
basic for any one who has flown a plane for even a short time:
keep it level except coordinated turns. To land glide down to
near stall speed, flare at the runway apron and make it stall
just as the wheels tough the runway.

In an emergency, a person who isn't a pilot certified for the aircraft in
question needs to use the automation, not take the controls manually. The
latter can easily lead to disaster.

The problem is that you need actual practice in an airplane in order to become
good at handling the controls, or you need to find an expensive, full-motion
simulator for the same purpose. Having experience in a vastly different
airplane won't help you much.

In contrast, anyone can fly with automation, as long as he has instructions
from someone qualified. And cruise flight and landing are or can be automated
in large jet airliners. So the logical thing to do with an underqualified
person in the cockpit is to stick to the automation to fly and land the
aircraft.

Anyone can turn knobs and move levers, but most people require a certain
amount of practice before they can competently drive a moving vehicle.

If aircraft are similar enough, of course, this doesn't apply. One can fly one
type of Cessna single-engine prop with only experience in other models, and
not make too many mistakes (although retractable gear and pitch adjustments
can complicate things). But these small aircraft and large airliners are not
similar.

Of course, that last part takes some real practice (I failed my
first flight test on the emergency landing). I don't know if
modern airliners can, as they say, land themselves, or at least
if they all can. I m pretty sure that if the plane is set up to
land itself it has to be at a runway set up for it.

Large airliners certified for autoland (which means most airliners) can land
themselves if set up to do so, at airports with the proper equipment (which
means an ILS certified for the purpose, although in a pinch almost any ILS
might suffice). Autolands are not the rule, but in a situation like the one
under discussion, where the airplane might be flown by a non-pilot or a pilot
who doesn't have experience in type, an autoland would be the safest option,
as it requires nothing more than the aforementioned pushing of buttons,
turning of knobs, and movement of levers. No manual flying skill is required,
and manual flying skill is the one thing that you cannot provide to an
inexperienced person in the heat of an emergency.

Hatunen writes:

Cessna makes or made (I don't recall the current structure of the
personal aircraft inudstry) some heavier aircraft than the 150s I
used to fly. Including some Jets (the Citation line).

Yes. I fly a Citation X on my trusty sim all the time. But flying jets is
expensive, and one need not do so for a CPL. Indeed, it might well be the
other way around: CPL, then jets.

On Jun 21, 4:24*am, Mxsmanic wrote:

Large airliners certified for autoland (which means most airliners) can land
themselves if set up to do so, at airports with the proper equipment (which
means an ILS certified for the purpose, although in a pinch almost any ILS
might suffice). Autolands are not the rule, but in a situation like the one
under discussion, where the airplane might be flown by a non-pilot or a pilot
who doesn't have experience in type, an autoland would be the safest option,
as it requires nothing more than the aforementioned pushing of buttons,
turning of knobs,

Yeah right, find the right combination of buttons AND push the button
to talk to a person who may or may not be there to help you push the
right buttons AND fly the plane until you get such combination of
instructions into the MFD to set up for autoland. I BET YOU CAN'T.

Oh wait, your vision is restricted to a 19 inch monitor, so yeah IN
YOUR MSFS simulator, you have a better chance since you don't have a
fear factor of losing your life.

On Jun 21, 12:39*am, Hatunen wrote:

While a heavy jet is a big sucker with a very complex panel
(although lighter aircraft are now sporting some pretty
compicated-looking electronci panels now) the principals are
basic for any one who has flown a plane for even a short time:
keep it level except coordinated turns. To land glide down to
near stall speed, flare at the runway apron and make it stall
just as the wheels tough the runway.

Yep, the drill is fly the plane which means airspeed, airspeed,
airspeed. Look at that ASEL pilot who landed the king air. He knew
the importance of airspeed.

I doubt that John Q Public would know that if they were afronted with
an array of buttons, lights, gauges to realize where the ASI is,
altimeter, heading and such.

Looking at my own experiences, I know it would be extremely
intimidating and distracting, can't imagine John Q Public sitting in
right or left seat being able to assimulate such a vast array of
information plus program the MFD as MX thinks can be easily done.

On Jun 21, 4:08*am, Mxsmanic wrote:

As I've said, I discuss aviation in all sorts of venues, not just on USENET.

So pray tell, share with us your so called sources since you are not a
pilot, not a CGI and pretend to be something you are not?

Or are they also simulated discussions with sources like MSFS?

On Jun 21, 4:26*am, Mxsmanic wrote:

Yes. I fly a Citation X on my trusty sim all the time.

FOR THE RECORD, YOU SIMULATE FLYING.

BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SIMULATING FLYING AND FLYING A REAL PLANE.

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Hatunen writes:

Cessna makes or made (I don't recall the current structure of the
personal aircraft inudstry) some heavier aircraft than the 150s I
used to fly. Including some Jets (the Citation line).

Yes. I fly a Citation X on my trusty sim all the time. But flying jets is
expensive, and one need not do so for a CPL. Indeed, it might well be the
other way around: CPL, then jets.

Playing a computer game doesn't make you an expert.
--
JohnT

On Jun 21, 10:55*am, "JohnT" wrote:
"Mxsmanic" wrote in message

...

Hatunen writes:

Cessna makes or made (I don't recall the current structure of the
personal aircraft inudstry) some heavier aircraft than the 150s I
used to fly. Including some Jets (the Citation line).

Yes. I fly a Citation X on my trusty sim all the time. But flying jets is
expensive, and one need not do so for a CPL. Indeed, it might well be the
other way around: CPL, then jets.

Playing a computer game doesn't make you an expert.
--
JohnT

Perhaps not, John, but I expect the reality is few people flying real
jets in the civilian world are holding only private licenses with the
appropriate type rating.

Now here is a question that really displays my ignorance: what
certificates do military pilots hold? Are those certificates issued by
the FAA?

"a" wrote in message
...
On Jun 21, 10:55 am, "JohnT" wrote:
"Mxsmanic" wrote in message

...

Hatunen writes:

Cessna makes or made (I don't recall the current structure of the
personal aircraft inudstry) some heavier aircraft than the 150s I
used to fly. Including some Jets (the Citation line).

Yes. I fly a Citation X on my trusty sim all the time. But flying jets
is
expensive, and one need not do so for a CPL. Indeed, it might well be
the
other way around: CPL, then jets.

Playing a computer game doesn't make you an expert.
--
JohnT

Perhaps not, John, but I expect the reality is few people flying real
jets in the civilian world are holding only private licenses with the
appropriate type rating.

Now here is a question that really displays my ignorance: what
certificates do military pilots hold? Are those certificates issued by
the FAA?


The RAF.
--
JohnT

On Jun 21, 11:14*am, "JohnT" wrote:
"a" wrote in message

...





On Jun 21, 10:55 am, "JohnT" wrote:
"Mxsmanic" wrote in message

. ..

Hatunen writes:

Cessna makes or made (I don't recall the current structure of the
personal aircraft inudstry) some heavier aircraft than the 150s I
used to fly. Including some Jets (the Citation line).

Yes. I fly a Citation X on my trusty sim all the time. But flying jets
is
expensive, and one need not do so for a CPL. Indeed, it might well be
the
other way around: CPL, then jets.

Playing a computer game doesn't make you an expert.
--
JohnT

Perhaps not, John, but I expect the reality is few people flying real
jets in the civilian world are holding only private licenses with the
appropriate type rating.

Now here is a question that really displays my ignorance: what
certificates do military pilots hold? Are those certificates issued by
the FAA?

The RAF.
--
JohnT- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Is it the RAF or FAA?

http://forms.faa.gov/forms/faa8710-1a.pdf

See block B