HR427 Vietnam Human Rights Act -- VC Leaders are Acting like Aggressive and Remorseless Criminals

Former Director of Naval Intelligence/DIA Director. Testimony by a R/Adm.
Common knowledge around Washington and the testimony was unclassified. I
will endeavor to get you an exact citation.


I like the internet. I think it is a powerful tool to do just about
anything including changing the future of countries like Vietnam or the
United States, and I know some people with just a few clicks, links and some
manipulations and sending it to the right place were able to change the
future relations between Vietnam and the United States. And using the
internet to prove a point is no exception. Here is a link about WMD which I
think is very interesting.

None Proliferation treaty:
http://www.fas.org/nuke/control/npt/

Countries that signed the treaty:
http://www.fas.org/nuke/control/npt/docs/nptstatus.htm

Vietnam was among the first 19 countries that signed on the NPT. Countries
who signed this treaty are subjected to unexpected inspection by the UN
atomic agency. Developed countries like the United States or Britain can
and have been providing satellite images of member countries whose
facilities are suspected of WMD development to the UN atomic agency.

Also notice that the updated list for 2003 of the NPT countries no longer
included the United States or North Korea. The United States opposes the
notion of the UN inspecting its WMD facilities. North Korea got out of the
NPT because it wants to develop nulcear weapon to protect it from an
American's attack.

Let assume that Vietnam, a country that just has gone though 45 years of
wars, that its land was devastated by twice the amount of bombs used by both
sides during WW II, and more than 15 millions tons of explosives and bombs
were dropped on its land altogether(more explosive than all wars in human
history combined), was some how able to develop a sophisticated WMD program.
What would the united States going to do about that? Chances are if the
united states knows about Vietnam's wmd program, not only the united states
would not take any actions but delight that vietnam has wmd because chances
are vietnam's wmd would likely to be used guarding against the its big rival
in the north, than any real threat to the United states. Vietnam has less
than 50 scud missiles that has a range less than 300 km, barely enough to
reach thailand or hongkong.

Moreover, the only country in the hot zone of the middle east that comfirmed
to have WMD is Israel. The only countries in the world that had been using
WMD more than any other countries combined is the United States. The two
atomic bombs dropped in japan killed more than 100,000 japanese civilians
and the 70,000 liters of agent orange had been killing and continue to kill
thousands of Vietnamese and American because agent orange causes cancers and
other health problems, and it continue to devastate the Vietnamese's
environment. Yet, people who are responsible for such devastation never
assumed any responsibility for the destruction they caused on a people that
have not done them any harms. Yet, some of those people are preaching their
victims on WMD. I see those people no different from the terrorist they are
criticizing, or would best fit the definition of a hypercrite.

The fact that you have to hide your identity as an unknown nobody
means that your opinions are not worth much!


Like everyone in here used their true name when discussing some issues. If
you are more interested in discussing my name, who I am. Here is a
newsgroups for you: alt.Namecalling.Vietnam. Give me a break!


The BBC stated that the VCP is screaming the US is interfering with
Vietnam's internal politics with HR427. I maintain that the US is not
interfering with anyone by witholding its own non-humanitarian aids to
untrustworthy regimes.


screaming? I say hardly. With a states budget of more than 10 billions
dollars(10,000 millions) I cheked a few years ago the 12 millions dollars in
United states aids is something vietnam can live without. And there is no
such thing is non-humanitarian aids neither. all of the aids the united
states gives to vietnam are tense to be humanitarian aids except of that
100,000 dollars to train vietnamese military official in English. and I
afraid that 100,000 is not even disbursed this year because the Vietnamese
is slow and refuses to foster a speedy military to miitary relations with
the united states, afraind it may anger china. Thus, effectively making the
human right acts a unless legislation even of it passed the U.S Senate. And
you know what? it is not going to survive in the senate because powerful
senator such as john McCain, John Kerry, .C. Hagel, U.S ambassador to
Vietnam, President of Vietnam-U.S trade council, military strategist like
carl thayer willl going to testify against it. Some of these people have
already made their stance known that they would not support it. And I
forgot the warhawls at the pentagon who will strongly oppose it.

My question was a reply to a post from Mr NT Tran. I dont know how you
interpret the question was directed to you.

To answer your question: No, I haven't weared a military uniform of
any kind.

"JASON A. KAATZ" wrote in message ...
Six years Army, one tour in Vietnam in Army Aviation in an Assault
Helicopter Company and later as a Military Instructor and graduate of the
Army/DOD Faculty Development Program. Taught mainly U.S. and Allied Officers
and EM and NCO'S as well.

What was your contribution to Military Service.

"JASON A. KAATZ" wrote in message ...
Former Director of Naval Intelligence/DIA Director. Testimony by a R/Adm.
Common knowledge around Washington and the testimony was unclassified. I
will endeavor to get you an exact citation.

I found this reference.
http://www.stimson.org/cbw/?SN=CB20011220137

Is this the same source that you are quoting from?

From this link:

Vietnam
Vietnam ratified the Chemical Weapons Convention in September 1998.
Seven years earlier, a US Naval Intelligence assessment cited Vietnam
as a probable possessor of chemical weapons

Israel
Israel has undertaken extensive research into defenses against
chemical warfare agents and conducts numerous military training
exercises in chemical defense. An El Al Airlines plane bound for Tel
Aviv that crashed outside Amsterdam in 1992 was carrying fifty gallons
of dimethyl methylphosphonate, a chemical that can be used in the
production of the nerve agent sarin. The precursor chemical was
destined for the Institute for Biological Research in Nes Ziona, a top
secret military installation outside Tel Aviv. Israeli officials
maintained that the substance was being used solely for defensive
research purposes, specifically to test filters for gas masks. The
institute was also responsible for producing the poison used in a
September 1997 assassination attempt on a leading figure in the
terrorist organization Hamas. In October 1998, a British newspaper
reported that Israeli F-16 fighter planes have been equipped to carry
chemical weapons at short notice. Israel has signed but not ratified
the Chemical Weapons Convention.1

The evidence of possessing chemical weapons on Vietnam is hand-waving
at best: "PROBABLE possessor" while the evidence on Israel is quite
definite: "has UNDERTAKEN".

The testimony that you refered to is the one seven earlier than 1998,
i.e., in 1991. In 1998, Vietnam ratified the Chemical Weapons
Convention in September 1998 which Israel has not done yet. Unless you
have any further evidences particularly from recent times, I rest my
case. Thank you.

(DOAN DUC TAM) wrote in message . com...
I have been interviewed a few times by the BBC for broadcast into
Vietnam.
Hahah. I did hear your interview mr VietThiet. Did not realize that
you are actually a Northern emigrant until then. No wonder.

This is probably a better report:
http://www.thebulletin.org/issues/19...hogendoom.html

Vietnam:
Vietnam. In congressional testimony in 1988, the director of naval
intelligence indicated that Vietnam was in the process of developing,
or already had, chemical weapons. Newspaper reports suggest that
Vietnam may have obtained chemical weapons from the former Soviet
Union.

Vietnam also captured large stocks of U.S. riot control agents during
and at the end of the Vietnam War. No public references have been made
recently to an indigenous production capacity.

and

Israel:
Israel. According to the same dia study, Israel developed its own
offensive chemical weapons program in response to a perceived Arab
chemical-weapon threat. In 1974, Lt. Gen. E. H. Almquist told a Senate
Armed Forces Committee that the Israeli program was operational. The
1990 dia study reports that Israel maintains a chemical warfare
testing facility. Newspaper reports suggest the facility is in the
Negev desert.

and

the Note on the Chemical Weapons Convention:
Under the provisions of the Chemical Weapons Convention, an accused
state must allow a thorough investigation. If it denies inspectors
access, it will face both sanctions and the stigma that comes with
being identified as a potential possessor of chemical weapons. Under
the treaty, neighboring states can also request international
assistance to protect their populations, eliminating the need to
develop their own weapons as deterrents.

Assuming Vietnam is an active cheminal weapon producer, it is truly
surprising that NO COUNTRY has raised the issue for Vietnam to be
investigated accordance to the Chemical Weapons Convention for which
Vietnam has ratified.

Well comrade Tran Cao Ky! You no wonder what?

You no wonder why I hate and despise the stupid and obstinate liars,
cheaters, thieves and murderers in the VCP politburo, who are
shamelessly abusing and impoverishing the people of Vietnam?

My family came from the same area as Pham Hong Son and Nguyen Vu Binh.
I grew up in Saigon and never knew North Vietnam. When I came back
for visits after 30 years, it was remarkable to see the Northern
Vietnamese still live, talk, act... like my relatives in the 50's,
i.e. they did not seem to change or progress! However, I felt like I
know them very well, understand their feelings, however well hidden,
and can anticipate most of their responses.

The few old VC's in the politburo should know that they are widely
hated and despised by the rest of the free world, their own rank, and
most of the common people of Vietnam by their stupid and ruthless
oppression of the people's wishes!

The Vietnamese people knows that their VC leaders are corrupt and
incompetent, and the country has no hope being governed by these
losers!


************************************************** **********
(Tran Cao Ky) wrote in message . com...
(DOAN DUC TAM) wrote in message . com...
I have been interviewed a few times by the BBC for broadcast into
Vietnam.
Hahah. I did hear your interview mr VietThiet. Did not realize that
you are actually a Northern emigrant until then. No wonder.

"JASON A. KAATZ" wrote:
Go to any college or university library that is a U.S. Gov. depository. I
believe you once stated you were in the WDC area. So you have access to the
NARC. You can get access to the reports of the HCIS and SCIS. The
alternative is the LC and you can spend time going through many volumes.

Also, look up Monterey Institute. Vietnam is listed as a nation with CBW
program - top institute in Monitoring CBW issues on a global basis. You
will also find a lot of case there on the subject.

Also check the Naval Institute proceedings, back issues. More to follow
later on the subject.

"Doug Reese" wrote in message
...
"JASON A. KAATZ" wrote:
Vietnam is not small fish - there was some testimony last years before
the
House and/or Senate as to Vietnam having gone into the WMD field.

Give me a break. Prove it. For once, prove it. $100 to your favorite
charity says
you can't back this ridiculous claim up.

We all know I work with VN tourist company, so don't come back with some
lame reply about that. Just tell us when/where/what committee, etc.

But, since there was no such testimony, you won't be able to do so.

Doug

You said "there was some testimony last years before the House and/or Senate as
to Vietnam having gone into the WMD field". When/where/what was said?

Doug

"unknown" wrote in message ...


screaming? I say hardly. With a states budget of more than 10 billions
dollars(10,000 millions) I cheked a few years ago the 12 millions dollars in
United states aids is something vietnam can live without. And there is no
such thing is non-humanitarian aids neither. all of the aids the united
states gives to vietnam are tense to be humanitarian aids except of that
100,000 dollars to train vietnamese military official in English.

If there a small amount of non-humanitarian aid as you wrote, then we
can say the HR427 affects very litle to the wellbeing of Vietnamese
people. Then why you are so upset about the HR427? Why did you write:

"What sort people would want to cut off aids to people with
HIV,orphan,
victim of landmine, and flood?"

Didn's you know that the HR427 affects only non-humanitarian aids and
the aids you listed were humanitarian aids, which will not be affected
by the HR427?

Minh Duc

Take about interfering in internal affairs....Hell, they are screaming
about American states and cities allowing Vietnamese/Americans to fly
the South Vietnamese Flag in place of the commie flag. It would be
laughable ....communists telling Americans what they can or can't
do...if our State Department wasn't cow-towing to their hissy fit.

Donna Long

(LIBERTY FLAME / LUA TU DO) wrote in message . com...
Dear friends,

With the pending HR427 legislation, The US Congress is contemplating
making non-humanitarian aids to Communist Vietnam contingent upon
Vietnam's certifiable improvements in its human rights practices. The
leaders of the Vietnamese Communist Party immediately start screaming
that the US is interfering in its internal affairs!

Since when is withholding aids and money from someone interfering in
that person's internal affairs? If you decide not to give money to a
bad person, are you interfering or violating that person in anyway?

For the past 60 years, continual abuses of the human rights and human
dignity of the people of Vietnam, on top of the rampant corruption and
exploitations, by the Vietnamese Communist Party are horrific and
shameful, as confirmed by many independent and impartial sources. The
world knows that the leaders of the Vietnamese Communist Party decided
to confine the Ven. Thich Huyen Quang, the 87 year-old ailing Buddhist
monk, in isolation in his own small pagoda in Quang Ngai for the past
20 years. The Rev. Nguyen Van Ly of the Catholic churches was
similarly given 15 years prison term with 3 years house arrest just
for demanding the return of his Church's land and religious freedom.

Hundreds of other dissidents are sentenced to long terms in prison
just for peacefully expressing their views on the failures of the
Vietnamese Communist Party, like lawyer Le Chi Quang, Dr. Pham Hong
Son, jourmalist Nguyen vu Binh, ex-soldier Nguyen Khac Toan etc? The
montagnards Christians in Vietnam central highlands are continually
persecuted with murders, tortures, poisoning, forced abortions, forced
renunciation of their faiths etc?These are cases well documented by
international uman rights organizations such as Human Rights Watch,
Amnesty International etc?

It is suspected that the gentle montagnards of Vietnam are being
persecuted because the uneducated, narrow-minded and paranoid leaders
of the Vietnamese Communist Party consider everyone affiliated with
the Protestant faith as potential CIA operatives!

The people of Vietnam is now one of the poorest and most oppressed in
the world, with US$400 average income per person per year. They have
no freedoms of religion, of expression, of forming labor unions or
political parties to compete with the Communists. The people of
Vietnam is just modern-day slaves to the obstinate, shameless, corrupt
and murderous leaders of the Vietnamese Communist Party.

What the leaders of the Vietnamese Communist Party are now doing with
the proposed legislation HR-427 in the US is to act like the
remorseless criminals, robbing and raping the victims, then loudly and
aggressively blaming the victims for the crimes, hoping to bully the
rest of the world into complying with its terms!

We urge all conscientious people of the world to work very closely
with your respective governments to make sure your hard-earned tax
money will not be given to the corrupt, extremely wealthy and
supremely powerful members of the Vietnamese Communist Party to
finance their lavish lifestyles, and to procure means to further
oppress and abuse the people of Vietnam.

We urge that we all work to make sure all aids to Vietnam are focused
on improving human rights for the people of Vietnam, are fully
accountable, and are strongly managed, with clearly-stated goals,
reward and punishment incentives, for the leaders of the Vietnamese
Communist Party.

We urge that all conscientious people of the world organize to effect
immediate expulsion of the Socialist Republic of Vietnam from the
United Nations' membership for its blatant, continuous and willful
violations of the UN's Universal Declarations of Human Rights and its
covenants on political and civil rights.

Sincerely,

Tam D. Doan
Liberty Flame

************************************************** **********************
http://www.vov.org.vn/2003_12_08/english/chinhtri1.htm

Politics
58 QuanSu - Hanoi Tel: (84-4) 9344231 Fax: (84-4) 9344230 Email:
vovnews@h...


Vietnam, US bolster bilateral co-operation

Deputy Prime Minister Vu Khoan has asked the US to bolster cooperation
with Vietnam to resolve post-war issues with a focus on the
consequences of Agent Orange.

During his visit to Washington D.C from Dec. 4-7, Vu Khoan held talks
and met with US Secretary of State Colin Powell, National Security
Advisor Codoleezza Rice, Trade Representative Robert Zoellick,
Secretary of Agriculture Ann Veneman, Acting Secretary of Commerce
Samuel Bodman, Senator Chuck Hagel, Representative Roy Blunt, and
leaders of major corporations and media organisations.

In a frank atmosphere of mutual respect and understanding, the
Vietnamese and US officials expressed their delight at recent positive
developments in bilateral relations. Both sides praised the efficiency
of the Vietnam-US Bilateral Trade Agreement, which has, in two years,
made the US Vietnam's largest trading partner. Trade between the two
countries now reaches around US$ 5 billion.

Deputy PM Khoan and US officials shared the view that potential for
mutually-beneficial co-operation between the two countries is great,
requiring them both to exert more effort to realise it fully.

To this end, they discussed measures to secure stable, long-term
co-operation between the two countries, emphasising respect for
independence, sovereignty, and mutually beneficial co-operation on an
equal footing.

Regarding differences and disputes arising in bilateral relations,
they believed that these matters should be resolved through
constructive dialogues and mutual understanding.

US leaders and members of congress lauded Vietnam's achievements in
its renewal process, as well as its goodwill and cooperation in the
search for MIAs, and in the fight against terrorism and trans-national
crime.

They affirmed their support for Vietnam's accession to the World Trade
Organisation (WTO), and expressed their willingness to expand
co-operation with the country in trade, technology, agriculture,
education and human resource development.

Vu Khoan reiterated Vietnam's foreign policy of openness and active
international integration, as well as efforts to promote equal and
mutually beneficial co-operation with the US.

However, Vietnam opposed any attempt to interfere in its internal
affairs, particularly Resolution H.R 427, which was recently adopted
by the House of Representatives. Demands were also made that the US
rescind the Jackson-Vanik Amendment for Vietnam, Khoan said.

Meanwhile, in an interview granted to the Washington Times on
Saturday, Khoan said Vietnam wishes to develop stable relations with
the US, and wants the Americans to change their thinking about
Vietnam. Both Vietnam and the US have moved a long way toward becoming
friendly states from enemies in the past.

Khoan said his visit this time aimed to build more stable bilateral
relations with the US through discussions with US leaders. He said the
two countries have been cooperating well in fighting terrorism, even
in sharing information and experience in this effort. He hoped that
the US would better cooperate in stopping terrorist acts caused by
some overseas Vietnamese residing in the US. He cited some cases as
throwing explosives into the Vietnamese Embassies in Thailand and the
Philippines in 2000, and hijacking a Thai aircraft in an attempt to
drop bombs in Vietnam in 2001.

Khoan said the US should cooperate with Vietnam in fighting terrorism,
and take further steps to stop such terrorist acts in the near future.
He condemned the recognition of the former Saigon puppet regimeâ??s
flag as the flag of the overseas Vietnamese community in 21 cities and
Louisiana State.

Khoan also called on the US to view Vietnam as a nation emerging in
stability and prosperity. "We wish to develop relations with the US on
the basis of equality and mutual benefit", Khoan said.