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#11
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Russian Orchestras/Russian Ballets
Karen Selwyn wrote: Please re-read my post. The topic of bans on instruments in cabins wasn't even mentioned much less Russian musicians being singularly affected. I was trying to find out the answer to the question that has nagged me since Mr. Travel posted it so I started this thread. Most of us have experienced "mr travel's" trolling too often to be misled (apparently you don't read this newsgroup as regularly as many of us do). Even when he posts about travel, the regulars with much more travel experience than I find some of his statements ludicrous, although he CLAIMS to be a travel professional. (Caveat emptor!) |
#12
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Russian Orchestras/Russian Ballets
EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote:
Saturday, August 12, Mr. Travel wrote: "What's the difference between qualified people from Russia or the US playing the same music?" That same day you responded, "Don't display your ignorance, moron!" Are you saying his asinine question was NOT moronic? No two equally qualified musicians play the same piece of music the SAME (and no two directors interpret it the same). To think they are interchangeable is to display abysmal ignorance, IMO! If you define his question as asinine, of course it's moronic. However, I thought the question spoke to national characteristics of musicians, and that strikes me as a legitimate question. In fact, several posters shared my point of view since they have answered my post by praising Russian musicians' interpretations of Russian music and criticizing Russian interpretations of Vivaldi or Mozart. Karen Selwyn |
#13
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Russian Orchestras/Russian Ballets
Please, I'm legitimately interested. Simply stating the Bolshoi and London
Philharmonic aren't the same isn't helping me. Is the difference interpretation? execution? what? Are there specific recordings I could listen to to hear the difference. It is not just the Bolshoi/Kirov orchestras that are different, it is all Russian orchestras. Russian orchestras tend to have stronger brass than the more refined orchestras of, say, Vienna. Gergiev, the conductor of the Kirov orchestra, released a CD of Rimsky-Korsakov's Scheherazade. Normally this is a delicate, romantic piece, at least as played by American and Western European orchestras. But Gergiev played it as a typical Russian orchestra would. One comment from Amazon put it rather well. The reviewer joked that he never realized that Scheherazade was in reality a large-boned, Russian farmgirl, as compared to the usual delicate Arabian woman (usual in the context of the music, not necessarily in reality). If you could borrow a copy of Gergiev's CD and compare it to one by Sir Charles Mackerras and the London Symphony Orchestra, you would hear the difference. Both are interesting, but no one would confuse one for the other. |
#14
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Russian Orchestras/Russian Ballets
If you define his question as asinine, of course it's moronic.
All of mrtravel's posts are moronic, IMO. However, I thought the question spoke to national characteristics of musicians, and that strikes me as a legitimate question. In fact, several posters shared my point of view since they have answered my post by praising Russian musicians' interpretations of Russian music and criticizing Russian interpretations of Vivaldi or Mozart. As I wrote in my other post, Russian orchestras tend to be rougher than Western European or American orchestras. I must admit that I am ignorant of whether this is historically correct, i.e. were Tchaikovsky's ballets played that way during his lifetime? I suspect that it is true for a simple reason; Russian orchestras never had the big budget for high-class instruments. Pletnev, a somewhat controversial conductor, took an existing Russian orchestra and renamed it to be the Russian National Orchestra. In the process he replaced the original Russian brass with new German brass, and changed the sound of the orchestra. Some classical music fans think that this ruined the sound of the orchestra, but I think that is for each listener to decide. A Russian orchestra playing Mozart makes me shudder. By the way, classical music fanatics, otherwise known as snobs, tend to think that the USA has only a few great orchestras, e.g. Chicago, Cleveland, Detroit, and maybe one or two others. New York would be the worst member of that club. |
#15
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Russian Orchestras/Russian Ballets
spamfree ha scritto: Please, I'm legitimately interested. Simply stating the Bolshoi and London Philharmonic aren't the same isn't helping me. Is the difference interpretation? execution? what? Are there specific recordings I could listen to to hear the difference. It is not just the Bolshoi/Kirov By the way, isn't that the Malinskii now? Sergio Pisa |
#16
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Russian Orchestras/Russian Ballets
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#17
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Russian Orchestras/Russian Ballets
spamfree wrote:
It is not just the Bolshoi/Kirov orchestras that are different, it is all Russian orchestras. Russian orchestras tend to have stronger brass than the more refined orchestras of, say, Vienna. Gergiev, the conductor of the Kirov orchestra, released a CD of Rimsky-Korsakov's Scheherazade. Normally this is a delicate, romantic piece, at least as played by American and Western European orchestras. But Gergiev played it as a typical Russian orchestra would. One comment from Amazon put it rather well. The reviewer joked that he never realized that Scheherazade was in reality a large-boned, Russian farmgirl, as compared to the usual delicate Arabian woman (usual in the context of the music, not necessarily in reality). If you could borrow a copy of Gergiev's CD and compare it to one by Sir Charles Mackerras and the London Symphony Orchestra, you would hear the difference. Both are interesting, but no one would confuse one for the other. Thank you very, very much. Karen Selwyn |
#18
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Russian Orchestras/Russian Ballets
[Cross-posted to rec.arts.dance]
Karen Selwyn wrote: We've had Evelyn calling people idiots for not inherently recognizing the superiority of Russian orchestras. We've had someone explaining Russian superiority by supplying an analogy referring to musicians I've never heard of. So far, I sincerely haven't been persuaded that Russian musicians are superior to the best of American or British or German, etc. musicians. Since we've had a ballet subscription to the Kennedy Center for nearly twenty years, I can only use my experience as a reasonably knowledgeable audience member of ballet to extrapolate to symphony. I really don't think Russian ballet companies are better than the best of American, Danish, British, French, or German ballet companies. The first time the Kirov and, then, the Bolshoi Ballet Companies were included in our subscription, I went to the theater with great anticipation. Now, many years later, I am more blase about these two companies. Attending one of their performances, I can be confident I'll see a fine full-length story ballet performance that is technically excellent but -- to my taste -- too heavy on scenery, costumes, and pantomime. When the leads do their solos and variations, I can see the talent of the dancers: Russian men tend to execute leaps requiring strength well; Russian women execute their steps with precision; and the corps tend to be quite uniform. But the Royal Ballet, the Paris Opera Ballet, the American Ballet Theatre, and the Royal Danish Ballets are every bit the equals in dancing the big story ballets. (I saw the Ballet Nacional de Cuba dance a GISELLE that was a revelation of what that classic ballet could be.) However, if I want to see a Balanchine ballet, I'd much rather watch the New York City Ballet or American Ballet Theatre than either Russian company. If I want to watch a MacMillan ballet, I'd much rather see the Royal Ballet instead of either Russian company. The list goes on. So what's the story with Russian orchestras? Karen Selwyn -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
#19
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Russian Orchestras/Russian Ballets
spamfree wrote:
All of mrtravel's posts are moronic, IMO. I tend not to read his posts since I often share your opinion. I can't reconstruct why I actually read the post that contained the question that intrigued me. I will say that during my decades as a teacher, I developed a habit of listening for the good stuff in a lot of moronic answers from students. If I could identify the good stuff and praise it, I stood a chance of increasing the percetage of good stuff I heard from that student. That point of view is quite useful in reading this and other newsgroups! As I wrote in my other post, Russian orchestras tend to be rougher than Western European or American orchestras. I must admit that I am ignorant of whether this is historically correct, i.e. were Tchaikovsky's ballets played that way during his lifetime? I really don't know. I'm knowledgeable about the dancing -- significantly less so about the music. Karen Selwyn |
#20
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Russian Orchestras/Russian Ballets
and I don't mean the detail that it's really spelled Mariinsky.
Even though many people forget that double 'i' and spell/pronounce it Marinsky. Have you traveled to Piter? It is an amazing place. The theater in St. Petersburg went back to its historic name as part of the wholesale return to historic names in the early '90s. However, the company discovered that they didn't sell as many tickets when they toured if they, too, adopted the name change. Now, the company tours under the name Kirov, although they perform domestically under the name Mariinsky. I have the sneaky suspiscion that only Americans are so ignorant they require the use of the old name Kirov. As you probably know, Kirov was the name of Leningrad's mayor. Kirov started to become more popular than Stalin in some circles and so Stalin had him killed. Then Stalin used his name as propaganda, hence the renaming of the ballet. Having been a writer for the Kennedy Center for many years, I am immensely jealous of anyone who has an interesting job. What name does the company use when they tour in Europe? I only have an oblique answer, but read the following URLs. http://www.mariinsky.ru/en/ballet http://www.mariinsky.ru/en/orchestra |
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