If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
The Bahn Card from hell
On 06/10/2012 12:27 PM, Martin wrote:
On Sun, 10 Jun 2012 12:10:02 +0200, Tom wrote: On 06/10/2012 12:02 AM, EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote: Tom P wrote: On 06/09/2012 09:49 AM, Martin wrote: On Sat, 09 Jun 2012 08:10:15 +0200, Tom wrote: I just thought to mention a salutary tale here. Last year my father bought a train ticket at a German rail station and the clerk persuaded him to get a Bahn Card as well. So far so good. A year later a new Bahn card arrived in the post with a letter thanking him for renewing the card together with a bill for the renewal. (40 Euros IIRC). As he didn't want one any more, he sent it back with a letter saying he was no longer interested. The following week, a replacement card arrived with a letter acknowledging the cancellation for 2013, and a final demand for the card for 2012. He sent this back as well. Two weeks later yet another replacement card arrived, along with a bill from a debt collection agency with a demand for 88 Euros. Do let us know the final outcome. I tried to use the www.bahn.de to plan a journey across Europe. In the days when it was www.dbahn.de the website covered the whole of Europe, from for example Mallaig to Vladivostok. Nowadays it is limited to a few countries. He's been convinced to pay the bill and cut his losses. The debt collectors will pursue you to the gates of hell, if you don't pay up you can reckon with court orders, writs and bailiffs, and the final bill could cost you thousands. I guess I'm too stubborn to pay for something I did not order! Unless they could produce a written renewal authorization, I don't see how any legal judgment could be legitimately enforced, so I'd just tell them to go whistle! Collection agencies will try anything, since they work on a commission based upon money collected. (One of the reasons I resist paying for things electronically is that one has no written record of a canceled check.) Unfortunately the law does not work that way. When you sign up for a Bahn card, the contract says that if you do not cancel, then it is automatically renewed. What happens then is regulated by statute law for delivery and payment of goods and services. The supplier (in this case the Bahn) delivers the new card. Once goods are delivered it is then the duty of the customer either to pay or to show that the goods are materially defective. You cannot claim that you did not want the card, because in that case, you would have canceled it before the old one ran out. The same ruling applies to any service that you have contracted on a regular basis, like a magazine subscription, internet connection, and so on. As far as telling debt collectors to go whistle is concerned, that may be a good idea if you are a lawyer with lots of spare time and money, but otherwise it can get extremely expensive. After a series of demand notices, each one with an increased service charge, they will initiate civil proceedings against you, starting with a court order for payment. You might be interested in this - http://www.online-mahnbescheid.de/infos_eng.html and this. Your father isn't the only one http://www.ukecc.net/sub.asp?id=310 Thanks for the update. It also mentions some good advice to anyone buying a Bahncard - as soon as you get the card, write and cancel the contract, and get written confirmation. Even if you give notice to cancel the contract immediately, the contract is still valid for the whole year and so is the card. |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
The Bahn Card from hell
Tom P wrote: On 06/10/2012 12:02 AM, EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote: The same ruling applies to any service that you have contracted on a regular basis, like a magazine subscription, internet connection, and so on. As far as telling debt collectors to go whistle is concerned, that may be a good idea if you are a lawyer with lots of spare time and money, but otherwise it can get extremely expensive. After a series of demand notices, each one with an increased service charge, they will initiate civil proceedings against you, starting with a court order for payment. Perhaps being the other side of the "pond" might discourage their efforts somewhat - especially now I'm retired, living on a fixed income, and with my traveling days regrettably behind me. |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
The Bahn Card from hell
On 06/10/2012 09:06 PM, EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote:
Tom P wrote: On 06/10/2012 12:02 AM, EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote: The same ruling applies to any service that you have contracted on a regular basis, like a magazine subscription, internet connection, and so on. As far as telling debt collectors to go whistle is concerned, that may be a good idea if you are a lawyer with lots of spare time and money, but otherwise it can get extremely expensive. After a series of demand notices, each one with an increased service charge, they will initiate civil proceedings against you, starting with a court order for payment. Perhaps being the other side of the "pond" might discourage their efforts somewhat - especially now I'm retired, living on a fixed income, and with my traveling days regrettably behind me. Some years ago I got a parking fine in the UK for running over time on a pay&display parking lot. There was a phone number, so I phoned and pointed out that I wasn't resident and asked what would happen if I didn't pay? The lady told me that they had no problem serving writs all over the world. I paid. |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
The Bahn Card from hell
Tom P wrote: On 06/10/2012 09:06 PM, EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote: Tom P wrote: On 06/10/2012 12:02 AM, EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote: The same ruling applies to any service that you have contracted on a regular basis, like a magazine subscription, internet connection, and so on. As far as telling debt collectors to go whistle is concerned, that may be a good idea if you are a lawyer with lots of spare time and money, but otherwise it can get extremely expensive. After a series of demand notices, each one with an increased service charge, they will initiate civil proceedings against you, starting with a court order for payment. Perhaps being the other side of the "pond" might discourage their efforts somewhat - especially now I'm retired, living on a fixed income, and with my traveling days regrettably behind me. Some years ago I got a parking fine in the UK for running over time on a pay&display parking lot. There was a phone number, so I phoned and pointed out that I wasn't resident and asked what would happen if I didn't pay? The lady told me that they had no problem serving writs all over the world. I paid. Oh, they might serve a writ, but if you won't be returning to that country again, and have only a retirement pension for income, how much money and effort are they likely to expend trying to collect? |
#15
|
|||
|
|||
The Bahn Card from hell
On 06/12/2012 11:54 AM, Martin wrote:
On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 18:57:03 -0700, "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote: Tom P wrote: On 06/10/2012 09:06 PM, EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote: Tom P wrote: On 06/10/2012 12:02 AM, EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote: The same ruling applies to any service that you have contracted on a regular basis, like a magazine subscription, internet connection, and so on. As far as telling debt collectors to go whistle is concerned, that may be a good idea if you are a lawyer with lots of spare time and money, but otherwise it can get extremely expensive. After a series of demand notices, each one with an increased service charge, they will initiate civil proceedings against you, starting with a court order for payment. Perhaps being the other side of the "pond" might discourage their efforts somewhat - especially now I'm retired, living on a fixed income, and with my traveling days regrettably behind me. Some years ago I got a parking fine in the UK for running over time on a pay&display parking lot. There was a phone number, so I phoned and pointed out that I wasn't resident and asked what would happen if I didn't pay? The lady told me that they had no problem serving writs all over the world. I paid. Oh, they might serve a writ, but if you won't be returning to that country again, and have only a retirement pension for income, how much money and effort are they likely to expend trying to collect? In Europe there are international arrest warrants. The Dutch are very good at checking and catching people with unpaid fines at immigration. Remember, Evelyn nobody expects the inquisition. It happened to someone I knew several years back. His name popped up on the computer at the airport when he presented his passport. It seems there was some kind of payment order against him, I don't know the details. |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
The Bahn Card from hell - Good News
On 06/09/2012 09:49 AM, Martin wrote:
On Sat, 09 Jun 2012 08:10:15 +0200, Tom wrote: I just thought to mention a salutary tale here. Last year my father bought a train ticket at a German rail station and the clerk persuaded him to get a Bahn Card as well. So far so good. A year later a new Bahn card arrived in the post with a letter thanking him for renewing the card together with a bill for the renewal. (40 Euros IIRC). As he didn't want one any more, he sent it back with a letter saying he was no longer interested. The following week, a replacement card arrived with a letter acknowledging the cancellation for 2013, and a final demand for the card for 2012. He sent this back as well. Two weeks later yet another replacement card arrived, along with a bill from a debt collection agency with a demand for 88 Euros. Do let us know the final outcome. I tried to use the www.bahn.de to plan a journey across Europe. In the days when it was www.dbahn.de the website covered the whole of Europe, from for example Mallaig to Vladivostok. Nowadays it is limited to a few countries. Well, good news - my father just let me know that he has received a letter of apology from the Bahn and is getting the money back - I can't tell you the exact details without seeing the letter myself, but it sounds like the story is ending well. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Playing The 9/11 Card OR My ID Security Just Went To Hell In A Handbasket | Chrissy Cruiser | Cruises | 0 | April 27th, 2005 05:43 PM |