Comments on itinerary [Yosemite, Zion, Death Valley + more]

I would follow the route suggested by User #1. Following are
recommendations on how long to stay at various places.
Gr. Canyon -, 3 days 2 nights
Monument Valley - half a day.
Mesa VErde - 1 1/2 days
Moab -, 3 days, 2 nights
Capitol Reef - drive through
Bryce and Zion - 1 1/2 days each
Las vegas - 2 days or less
Death Valley -- drive through -half a day
Yosemite - 3 days, two nights

Have no suggestions for California part of the trip. Can say you need
not spend much more than half a day at Joshua Tree. You might also
consider a stop in Sedona on the way back to PHX.

Also consider driving from place to place during evening hours
wherever possible to maximize time spent siightseeing.

Peter Ibrahim wrote:
Monument Valley looked like the kind of place it would be good to stop at
briefly, but nothing longer really, as there didn't strike me as being a
great deal to do there. As for motels in the area, I figure the best place
to stop at there would be Mexican Hat (?). Without having the info in front
of me, I seem to recall that Kayenta and Mexican Hat were the two nearest
areas with motels, and MH was much cheaper.

Someone else might have more info on Mexican Hat. Both towns are very
very small. Kayenta does have a holiday inn. Summer prices might be
somewhat high.


As for the Grand Canyon, how long is it reasonable to stay there? We would
be looking to hike to the bottom of the Canyon, and we'd probably take the
Bright Angel trail. From what I've read, it's best to hike down in one day,
and hike up the next.

You might think twice about making this hike in the summer. While it
will be nice and cool at the rim level, most of your hike will be 90F to
110F toward the bottm. Early spring and late fall are the best times to
hike. If you want to spend the night, you'll probably need reservations
especially if you wish to stay at phantom ranch. They fill up very
quickly. If you do want to hike in the summer, you must leave very very
early in the morning to avoid the afternoon heat. Take a ton of water
with you!!


Is two days enough time to spend in the Canyon?
Personally I didn't feel there was as much to do/see here as in Yosemite,
and I figured two days might be enough to cover it. Comments..?

If you hike it, that will take up most of both days. A 1/2 day drive
along the east rim towards Cameron is well worth it. I like to make a
circle trip from Flagstaff to Cameron and then onto the canyon and then
back to Flagstaff. Very pretty drive.

Flagstaff has a considerable amount of hotels at MUCH lower prices than
at the canyon. Taking the old steam train from williams to the canyon
can also be fun.

As for the Grand
Canyon, I recall reading that a westward drive is shut off in the summer
months, but an eastward drive yields some parking places.

Most of the time the west rim drive is closed except for vehicles with a
handicap license or placard. The east rim drive is always open and
there are several view points with parking. There is also parking at
the grand canyon village. If you arrive early at the village you should
easily find parking. Avoid holiday weekends there.

Avis are often one of the more expensive car hire companies. Alamo,
Payless, Dollar, Budget might be worth considering. Also, consider
contacting people like Travel 2 (they only work through travel agencies) and
Trailfinders who will sell you the flight plus car; might be a reasonable
deal. Interestingly they can end up selling Avis and Hertz at a discount.

As far as radios are concerned I had a Taurus from Payless in Denver back in
September (Ford Granada size) and it came with a radio and CD player.
Given the distances I would suggest that with 3/4 of you anything smaller
would be a false economy.

San Francisco has a broad range of public transport. It's more like a
European city than a US one from that point of view. The cable cars are
just one very small part of the deal! There are buses, trolleybuses,
trams, cable cars, ferries and an underground system. For me, driving down
Lombard was a complete anti climax; it's artificial. The underground
(BART) actually goes to the airport so staying out there is not an
impossibility. Another way of getting down the peninsular (the bit to the
south of the city) is Caltrain. They run half hourly through the day
although it tails off as you get towards midnight. That 511 website I
quoted will give you more information.

There used to be a Howard Johnsons not too far from the Hillsdale station
(not sure if it's still there). Hillsdale station is opposite a large
shopping mall if that's of any interest. For family reasons we've stayed
in this area many times (although not at the HoJo). If you avoid the rush
hour you can drive into the city in about 40 minutes. There are 2 large
multiplex cinemas a little south in Redwood City, you can drive out to Half
Moon Bay on the Pacific Coast in about 30 minutes.

Durango and Silverton details here http://www.durangotrain.com/. Can't
remember where we parked but it wasn't an issue.



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Just for fun I ran a possible route through an old version of Microsoft Trip
Planner for the USA that I have and came up with. The sort of distances
and times it comes up with usually work for me and has done for some years
(ranging from touring with 2 teenagers to just me and my wife) but, of
course, your mileage my vary. And, of course, the choices about exactly
where to stop and holng for are totally arbitrary.

Time Distance Instruction Road For Dir Toward
DAY 1
18:26 PM 0.0 Depart Los Angeles International Airport, California Local
road(s) 0.7 mi E
18:27 PM 0.7 Turn left onto SR-1 229 yds N Santa Monica
18:27 PM 0.8 Turn right onto Local road(s) 1.1 mi E
18:30 PM 1.9 Arrive Lax Travelodge - Stop 1
End of day
DAY 2
9:30 AM 1.9 Depart Lax Travelodge - Stop 1 Local road(s) 857 yds E
9:30 AM 2.4 At I-405 W Century Blvd Exit, turn left onto I-405 17.1 mi N
9:51 AM 19.5 Bear left onto US-101 82.2 mi NW Agoura Hills
11:19 AM 101.7 At US-101 SR-154 Exit, turn right onto SR-154 32.1 mi N
Goleta
11:58 AM 133.8 Turn right onto US-101 57.1 mi N Los Alamos
13:00 PM 190.9 Turn left onto Local road(s) 34 yds W
13:00 PM 190.9 Arrive Travelodge South - Stop 2
End of day
DAY 3
9:30 AM 190.9 Depart Travelodge South - Stop 2 Local road(s) 34 yds E
9:30 AM 190.9 At US-101 Broad St Exit, turn left onto US-101 726 yds NE
Atascadero
9:31 AM 191.3 At US-101 California Blvd Exit, turn left onto Calif Blvd 772
yds NW
9:32 AM 191.8 At San Luis Obispo, turn left onto Foothill Blvd 441 yds W
9:33 AM 192.0 Turn right onto SR-1 103.6 mi N Morro Bay
10:57 AM 248.8 Refuel before he last refuel 248.8 miles ago
12:07 PM 295.6 Turn right onto Local road(s) 447 yds E
12:08 PM 295.9 At Big Sur, California - Stop 3, return on Local road(s) 447
yds W
12:08 PM 296.1 Turn right onto SR-1 28.4 mi N Monterey
12:51 PM 324.5 At SR-1 SR-68 Exit, go onto SR-68 3.2 mi N Pacific Grove
12:56 PM 327.7 Bear right onto Forest Ave 0.6 mi N
12:57 PM 328.3 Turn right onto Pine Ave 162 yds E
12:57 PM 328.4 Turn right onto Local road(s) 49 yds S
12:57 PM 328.4 Arrive Pacific Grove - Stop 4
End of day
DAY 4
9:30 AM 328.4 Depart Pacific Grove - Stop 4 Local road(s) 49 yds N
9:30 AM 328.4 Turn left onto Pine Ave 162 yds W
9:30 AM 328.5 Turn right onto Forest Ave 413 yds N
9:31 AM 328.7 Turn right onto Central Ave 0.8 mi E
9:32 AM 329.6 Go onto Lighthouse Ave 1.3 mi SE
9:35 AM 330.9 Turn left onto Monte Ave 1.8 mi E
9:39 AM 332.7 At SR-1 Del Monte Ave Exit, turn left onto SR-1 40.0 mi N
Watsonville
10:32 AM 372.7 At SR-1 Chestnut St Exit, turn right onto Mission St 1.6 mi W
10:35 AM 374.3 Bear right onto SR-1 10.3 mi W Pacifica
10:51 AM 384.7 Turn right onto Local road(s) 227 yds NE
10:51 AM 384.8 At Davenport Landing - Stop 5, return on Local road(s) 227
yds SW
10:51 AM 384.9 Turn right onto SR-1 35.3 mi NW Pacifica
11:44 AM 420.3 Turn right onto Main St 1.2 mi NE
11:47 AM 421.5 Turn right onto SR-92 5.0 mi E
11:53 AM 426.5 Bear right onto SR-35 2.6 mi E San Mateo
11:57 AM 429.1 Turn right onto Local road(s) 83 yds E
11:58 AM 429.2 At I-280 Bunker Hill Dr Exit, turn left onto I-280 8.7 mi NW
San Francisco
12:07 PM 437.8 Turn right onto I-380 1.7 mi N San Francisco
12:09 PM 439.5 Turn left onto US-101 10.3 mi N South San Francisco
12:22 PM 449.8 At US-101 Van Ness Ave Exit, turn right onto S Van Ness Ave
634 yds N
12:23 PM 450.2 Go onto US-101 1.8 mi N Mill Valley
12:26 PM 452.0 Go onto Local road(s) 2.1 mi N
12:32 PM 454.1 Arrive Fisherman's Wharf, California - Stop 6
End of day
DAY 7
9:30 AM 454.1 Depart Fisherman's Wharf, California - Stop 6 Local road(s)
2.5 mi E
9:38 AM 456.6 At I-80 Fremont St Exit, turn left onto I-80 6.4 mi NE
9:45 AM 463.0 Go onto I-580 45.9 mi E Oakland
10:20 AM 495.9 Refuel before he last refuel 247.1 miles ago
10:32 AM 508.9 Go onto I-205 [I-580] 13.1 mi E
10:45 AM 522.0 Bear left onto I-5 1.8 mi NE Medford
10:47 AM 523.8 Bear right onto SR-120 27.0 mi E Manteca
11:18 AM 550.8 Turn left onto SR-108 25.1 mi E Sonora
11:49 AM 575.9 Bear right onto SR-120 77.9 mi SE
13:36 PM 653.8 Turn left onto Local road(s) 1.3 mi NW
13:38 PM 655.0 Arrive Yosemite N.P., California - Stop 7
End of day
DAY 10
9:30 AM 655.0 Depart Yosemite N.P., California - Stop 7 Local road(s) 1.3 mi
SE
9:32 AM 656.3 Turn left onto SR-120 32.8 mi E
10:28 AM 689.1 At Lee Vining, turn right onto US-395 63.3 mi E
11:29 AM 752.3 Turn right onto US-6 179 yds S
11:30 AM 752.4 At Bishop, go onto US-395 0.9 mi S
11:31 AM 753.3 Turn right onto SR-168 762 yds W
11:32 AM 753.7 Arrive Days Inn - Bishop - Stop 8
End of day
DAY 11
9:30 AM 753.7 Depart Days Inn - Bishop - Stop 8 SR-168 762 yds E
9:30 AM 754.2 Turn right onto US-395 14.6 mi S
9:43 AM 767.0 Refuel before he last refuel 271.1 miles ago
9:45 AM 768.8 Bear left onto SR-168 41.7 mi E
10:57 AM 810.4 Entering Nevada
10:57 AM 810.4 Bear left onto SR-266 40.3 mi E
12:06 PM 850.7 Turn right onto US-95 157.4 mi S
14:39 PM 1008.1 Go onto US-95 Bus 110 yds SE Las Vegas
14:40 PM 1008.2 Bear right onto US-95 9.5 mi S
14:51 PM 1017.6 Turn right onto US-95 Bus 0.7 mi S
14:53 PM 1018.3 Turn left onto Local road(s) 1.0 mi E
14:55 PM 1019.2 Arrive Las Vegas, Nevada - Stop 9
End of day
DAY 12
9:30 AM 1019.2 Depart Las Vegas, Nevada - Stop 9 Local road(s) 0.9 mi W
9:32 AM 1020.1 Turn left onto I-15 127.2 mi N Cedar City
9:45 AM 1032.1 Refuel before he last refuel 265.1 miles ago
10:49 AM 1102.0 Entering Arizona
11:16 AM 1131.4 Entering Utah
11:32 AM 1147.4 At I-15 Exit 16, turn right onto SR-9 18.5 mi SE
11:54 AM 1165.8 At Virgin [Pocketville], turn left onto Kolob Rd 15.7 mi N
12:21 PM 1181.5 Bear right onto Local road(s) 2.4 mi SE
12:25 PM 1183.9 Arrive Zion N.P., Utah - Stop 10
End of day
DAY 13
9:30 AM 1183.9 Depart Zion N.P., Utah - Stop 10 Local road(s) 2.4 mi NW
9:34 AM 1186.3 Bear left onto Kolob Rd 15.7 mi W
10:00 AM 1202.0 At Virgin [Pocketville], turn left onto SR-9 38.2 mi E
10:47 AM 1240.1 At Mount Carmel Junction, bear left onto US-89 43.2 mi NE
11:39 AM 1283.3 At Hillsdale, turn right onto SR-12 13.5 mi E
12:03 PM 1296.9 Bear right onto SR-63 8.2 mi SE
12:13 PM 1302.8 Refuel before he last refuel 270.7 miles ago
12:17 PM 1305.1 Turn left onto Local road(s) 2.8 mi E
12:22 PM 1307.9 Arrive Bryce Canyon N.P., Utah - Stop 11
End of day
DAY 14
9:30 AM 1307.9 Depart Bryce Canyon N.P., Utah - Stop 11 Local road(s) 2.8 mi
NW
9:34 AM 1310.7 Turn right onto SR-63 8.1 mi N
9:49 AM 1318.8 Bear right onto SR-22 13.5 mi N
10:12 AM 1332.3 At Widtsoe Junction, turn right onto Old Escalante Rd 22.2
mi E
10:51 AM 1354.5 Turn left onto SR-12 69.4 mi E
12:50 PM 1423.9 At Torrey, turn right onto SR-24 46.0 mi E
14:09 PM 1470.0 Turn right onto Local road(s) 631 yds S
14:10 PM 1470.3 At Hanksville, Utah - Stop 12, return on Local road(s) 631
yds N
14:10 PM 1470.7 At Caineville, turn right onto SR-24 44.1 mi E
15:26 PM 1514.8 At I-70 Exit 147, turn right onto I-70 32.8 mi E Grand
Junction
15:57 PM 1547.7 At I-70 Exit 180, turn right onto US-191 31.5 mi S
16:29 PM 1574.2 Refuel before he last refuel 271.3 miles ago
16:35 PM 1579.2 Turn right onto Local road(s) 240 yds W
16:35 PM 1579.3 Arrive Moab, Utah - Stop 13
End of day
DAY 17
9:30 AM 1579.3 Depart Moab, Utah - Stop 13 Local road(s) 240 yds E
9:30 AM 1579.4 Turn right onto US-191 54.0 mi S
10:35 AM 1633.4 At Monticello, turn left onto US-666 59.9 mi E Colorado
10:55 AM 1650.5 Entering Colorado
11:47 AM 1693.3 Turn left onto N Pinon Dr 454 yds S
11:48 AM 1693.6 Bear left onto US-160 44.9 mi E Durango
12:43 PM 1738.5 Turn left onto US-550 0.9 mi N Montrose
12:44 PM 1739.4 Bear left onto Main Ave 179 yds S
12:44 PM 1739.5 Turn left onto Local road(s) 87 yds E
12:45 PM 1739.6 Arrive Durango, Colorado - Stop 14
End of day
DAY 18
9:30 AM 1739.6 Depart Durango, Colorado - Stop 14 Local road(s) 87 yds W
9:30 AM 1739.6 Turn right onto Main Ave 179 yds N
9:30 AM 1739.7 Bear right onto US-550 0.9 mi N Montrose
9:32 AM 1740.7 Turn right onto US-160 34.6 mi W
10:14 AM 1775.3 Turn left onto SR-10 8.1 mi SW
10:28 AM 1783.4 Bear right onto Ruins Rd 9.9 mi W
10:45 AM 1793.3 Bear right onto Local road(s) 14 yds S
10:46 AM 1793.3 Go onto Ruins Rd 1.0 mi S
10:48 AM 1794.3 Turn right onto Local road(s) 0.8 mi W
10:49 AM 1795.1 Arrive Mesa Verde N.P. Headquarters, Colorado - Stop 15
End of day
DAY 19
9:30 AM 1795.1 Depart Mesa Verde N.P. Headquarters, Colorado - Stop 15 Local
road(s) 0.8 mi W
9:31 AM 1795.9 Turn left onto Ruins Rd 1.0 mi W
9:33 AM 1796.9 Go onto Local road(s) 14 yds N
9:34 AM 1796.9 Bear left onto Ruins Rd 9.9 mi NW
9:51 AM 1806.7 Bear left onto SR-10 8.1 mi NE
10:06 AM 1814.9 Turn left onto US-160 85.3 mi W Cortez
10:41 AM 1843.7 Refuel before he last refuel 269.6 miles ago
11:04 AM 1863.4 Entering New Mexico
11:05 AM 1864.2 Entering Arizona
11:49 AM 1900.2 At Mexican Water, turn left onto US-191 32.6 mi S
12:28 PM 1932.7 At Round Rock [Bisdotl'is desaki], [Round Rock Store],
[Tsenakaahn], bear right onto Indian Hwy 12 21.2 mi SE
13:05 PM 1953.9 Turn right onto Indian Hwy 64 15.9 mi SW
13:32 PM 1969.8 Turn left onto Local road(s) 5.6 mi SE
13:42 PM 1975.4 Arrive Canyon de Chelly N.M., Arizona - Stop 16
End of day
DAY 20
9:30 AM 1975.4 Depart Canyon de Chelly N.M., Arizona - Stop 16 Local road(s)
5.6 mi NW
9:39 AM 1981.1 Turn right onto Indian Hwy 64 15.9 mi E
10:07 AM 1997.0 Turn left onto Indian Hwy 12 21.2 mi W
10:44 AM 2018.1 At Round Rock [Bisdotl'is desaki], [Round Rock Store],
[Tsenakaahn], bear left onto US-191 32.6 mi W
11:23 AM 2050.7 At Mexican Water, turn left onto US-160 41.2 mi NW
12:13 PM 2091.9 At Kayenta, turn right onto US-163 23.6 mi N Utah
12:41 PM 2115.1 Refuel before he last refuel 271.3 miles ago
12:41 PM 2115.2 Entering Utah
12:41 PM 2115.6 Turn right onto Local road(s) 57 yds E
12:42 PM 2115.6 Arrive Navajo Tribal Park - Stop 17
15:42 PM 2115.6 Depart Navajo Tribal Park - Stop 17 Local road(s) 57 yds W
15:42 PM 2115.6 At Mexican Hat, turn left onto US-163 22.3 mi S
15:42 PM 2116.1 Entering Arizona
16:08 PM 2138.0 Bear right onto Local road(s) 252 yds W
16:09 PM 2138.1 Arrive Kayenta, Arizona - Stop 18
End of day
DAY 21
9:30 AM 2138.1 Depart Kayenta, Arizona - Stop 18 Local road(s) 252 yds E
9:30 AM 2138.3 Turn right onto US-163 1.4 mi SW
9:31 AM 2139.6 At Kayenta, turn right onto US-160 82.0 mi W
11:10 AM 2221.7 Turn left onto US-89 15.5 mi S Flagstaff
11:29 AM 2237.1 At Cameron, bear right onto SR-64 52.6 mi W
12:33 PM 2289.7 Turn right onto S Entrance Rd 2.0 mi N
12:36 PM 2291.8 Turn right onto Local road(s) 10 yds NW
12:36 PM 2291.8 Arrive Grand Canyon Village Visitor Center, Arizona - Stop
19
End of day
DAY 24
9:30 AM 2291.8 Depart Grand Canyon Village Visitor Center, Arizona - Stop 19
Local road(s) 10 yds SE
9:30 AM 2291.8 Turn right onto S Entrance Rd 0.8 mi W
9:31 AM 2292.5 Turn left onto Village Loop Dr 371 yds S
9:32 AM 2292.8 At Grand Canyon Village, turn left onto Center Rd 1.6 mi S
9:35 AM 2294.4 Turn right onto US-180 26.9 mi S Flagstaff
10:08 AM 2321.2 At Valle, bear right onto SR-64 28.0 mi S
10:42 AM 2349.2 At I-40 Exit 165, turn left onto I-40 29.4 mi E Flagstaff
11:09 AM 2378.6 At I-17 Exit 340, turn right onto I-17 19.6 mi S Phoenix
11:16 AM 2386.4 Refuel before he last refuel 271.3 miles ago
11:28 AM 2398.2 At I-17 Exit 320, turn right onto Schnebly Hill Rd 11.6 mi W
11:48 AM 2409.8 Turn right onto SR-179 606 yds W
11:49 AM 2410.1 Turn right onto SR-89 A 433 yds E Flagstaff
11:49 AM 2410.4 Turn right onto Local road(s) 25 yds E
11:49 AM 2410.4 Arrive Sedona, Arizona - Stop 20
13:49 PM 2410.4 Depart Sedona, Arizona - Stop 20 Local road(s) 25 yds W
13:49 PM 2410.4 Turn left onto SR-89 A 433 yds S
13:50 PM 2410.7 Turn left onto SR-179 606 yds S
13:51 PM 2411.0 Turn left onto Schnebly Hill Rd 11.6 mi NE
14:12 PM 2422.6 At I-17 Exit 320, turn left onto I-17 19.6 mi N Flagstaff
14:30 PM 2442.2 At I-17 Exit 340, turn right onto I-40 91.2 mi E
15:54 PM 2533.4 At I-40 Exit 286, bear left onto I-40 Bus 126 yds NE
15:54 PM 2533.4 Arrive Holiday Inn Express - Holbrook - Stop 21
End of day
DAY 25
9:30 AM 2533.4 Depart Holiday Inn Express - Holbrook - Stop 21 I-40 Bus 126
yds SW
9:30 AM 2533.5 At I-40 Exit 286, go onto US-180 18.9 mi SW
9:53 AM 2552.4 Turn left onto Petrified Forest Rd 17.4 mi N
10:23 AM 2569.8 Turn left onto Local road(s) 401 yds W
10:23 AM 2570.1 Arrive Petrified Forest N.P., Arizona - Stop 22
13:23 PM 2570.1 Depart Petrified Forest N.P., Arizona - Stop 22 Local
road(s) 401 yds E
13:23 PM 2570.3 Turn right onto Petrified Forest Rd 17.4 mi S
13:54 PM 2587.7 Turn right onto US-180 17.5 mi W
14:15 PM 2605.2 Turn left onto SR-77 45.7 mi S
15:10 PM 2650.9 Bear right onto US-60 2.5 mi W
15:14 PM 2653.4 Turn right onto SR-260 7.2 mi NW Payson
15:19 PM 2657.8 Refuel before he last refuel 271.3 miles ago
15:22 PM 2660.6 Turn left onto Local road(s) 113 yds S
15:23 PM 2660.7 Arrive Show Low, Arizona - Stop 23
End of day
DAY 26
9:30 AM 2660.7 Depart Show Low, Arizona - Stop 23 Local road(s) 113 yds N
9:30 AM 2660.7 Turn right onto SR-260 7.2 mi E
9:39 AM 2668.0 Turn right onto US-60 163.6 mi SW
12:50 PM 2831.6 At I-10 Exit 154, turn right onto I-10 1.8 mi N Phoenix
12:52 PM 2833.4 At I-10 Exit 152, turn right onto SR-143 1.9 mi N Scottsdale
12:54 PM 2835.3 Turn left onto Local road(s) 1.8 mi W
12:58 PM 2837.1 Arrive Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport, Arizona


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"Rqf" wrote in message
om...
I would follow the route suggested by User #1. Following are
recommendations on how long to stay at various places.
Gr. Canyon -, 3 days 2 nights
Monument Valley - half a day.
Mesa VErde - 1 1/2 days
Moab -, 3 days, 2 nights
Capitol Reef - drive through
Bryce and Zion - 1 1/2 days each
Las vegas - 2 days or less
Death Valley -- drive through -half a day
Yosemite - 3 days, two nights

Have no suggestions for California part of the trip. Can say you need
not spend much more than half a day at Joshua Tree. You might also
consider a stop in Sedona on the way back to PHX.

Also consider driving from place to place during evening hours
wherever possible to maximize time spent siightseeing.

Thanks for the suggestions on how long to spend per park. Your
recommendations seem to concur with what I was anticipating - couple of days
in the Canyon, very little time in Monument Valley, etc. I think we'll
probably spend two nights in the Canyon - hopefully hike to the bottom and
back again in two days, and depart on the third, but taking into account
advice given elsewhere about the heat, this may be optimistic.

I do indeed plan on passing Sedona on my way back to PHX, however I'm not
sure if we'll stay overnight near the area. Motel prices seemed somewhat
pricey there, and I think we may stay overnight at Kingman, which seemed
very cheap, and then drive East along I40 and then South through Sedona,
before returning to the airport.

Peter

"User 1.nospam" wrote in message
news
How long do you estimate the 395 drive from Vegas to Yosemite to be?
Using
the route I detailed earlier, I had it as 132mi (3hr 12) from Vegas to
Death
Valley, and a further 340mi (8hr 23) to Yosemite (using MSN Maps). The
slightly thorny issue with that area of the itinerary was the fact that
there wasn't much choice of where to stop at - I seem to recall there
were
only a few towns along the route, Lee Vining and Beatty being two I
remember. Is finding a motel to stop over at easier along the Tioga
Pass...?

Your driving times are pretty liberal....most Americans on long haul
highways drive closer to 70mph...(sometimes more). One poster suggested
Mammoth area for lodging...thats good, as is Lee Vining or Bishop.
Otherwise there is nothing on that side of the Sierras.
Nothing over Tioga Pass. That road is only open in the summer anyway. If
you want to stay in yosemite you need to make your reservations wayyyy
ahead
of time. Staying outside of Yosemite in the summer is also a challenge if
you haven't made reservations. It is a very popular area and summer
brings
families and tourists galore! (Personally, I would suggest late May or
early June for this trip.)


I took the driving times from MSN Maps/Directions, I'm not entirely sure
what average speed they're based on. To be honest, I'm not even sure what
the speed limit(s) are - I've read that its 65mph, however elsewhere I'll
also read that its 70mph, so I'm not entirely certain.

Unfortunately our time of travel is somewhat inflexible. I was hoping to go
in September-time, but one of my friends can't make that, and so we'll
basically be visiting Yosemite in the middle of July (departing flight on
the last day of June, as all flight prices seem cheaper then). Death Valley
certainly won't be pleasant.

Peter

"Bill Hilton" wrote in message
...
"Julie" wrote

You don't include Bryce NP on your list. I would definitely go
there also. It is spectacular.

From: "Peter Ibrahim"

Bryce was one of my 'possibles', along with Canyonlands and Arches, that
I'm
considering fitting in as well. Have you been to the latter two as well?
Any opinions on them?

Bryce is very close to Zion and north rim of the Grand Canyon, yet each is
radically different and certainly worth a separate visit since you're in
the
area. Definitely "do" Bryce, even if just for an afternoon and the next
morning. Besides, it's about 8,400 ft and much cooler than some of the
other
hot-spots on your list.

As for Canyonlands and Arches, I think a 2-3 day trip to Moab would be one
of
the highlights of your trip. You mentioned going to Monument Valley ...
Moab
is about 2.5 hours drive north of MV and definitely worth the trip.
Again,
both Arches and Canyonlands are spectacular and radically different from
each
other and from Zion, Bryce, GC, Monument Valley etc. Moab has a slightly
funky
atmosphere as well, with all the river running trips and mountain bikers
giving
it a bit of an interesting edge. Try Eddie McStiff's Brew Pub for a meal
and a
beer at the end of the day. Definitely go to Moab, then head west to
Bryce,
Zion, north rim, then to California.

One other interesting side trip in the MV area is to Canyon de Chelley,
fortress of the Navajo. Maybe 2 hours drive east/south of MV. It's easy
to
combine a trip here with one to the Painted Desert (which you also
mentioned).


It makes sense to check out Bryce as we'll be so close to its vicinity. In
all honesty, its proving very hard to choose between the glut of National
Parks in the area - all the photos of them look so spectacular, if we need
to drop 1 or 2 for reasons of time it'll be a tough decision. I suspect
Arches might be one that gets dropped if we need to.

Moab certainly looks a worthwhile excursion, my friend had been somewhat
sceptical of the Painted Forest Monument Valley section, so if I can
convince him there's a lot of other places to visit nearby, it should sway
his mind. I've also heard of Meteor Crater and a few other momuments near
Flagstaff - have you visited them? Regarding mountain biking, are there
some easy trails in Moab? I'm guessing mountain biking opportunities may be
limited, and it would be quite a nice way of viewing one of the parks,
however I'm after something fairly easy - are there trails for all biking
abilities..?

Thanks for the advice!

"Miles" wrote in message
news:70NGb.23032$J77.15926@fed1read07...




Someone else might have more info on Mexican Hat. Both towns are very
very small. Kayenta does have a holiday inn. Summer prices might be
somewhat high.

I checked online a week ago, I think Kayenta prices were a lot more
expensive. I think it provides the closest accommodation to Monument
Valley, and has the ability to jack the prices up somewhat. Mexican Hat
looked a lot more reasonable.


You might think twice about making this hike in the summer. While it
will be nice and cool at the rim level, most of your hike will be 90F to
110F toward the bottm. Early spring and late fall are the best times to
hike. If you want to spend the night, you'll probably need reservations
especially if you wish to stay at phantom ranch. They fill up very
quickly. If you do want to hike in the summer, you must leave very very
early in the morning to avoid the afternoon heat. Take a ton of water
with you!!

Unfortunately, we'll be venturing into the Canyon near the beginning of July
(our dates are forced upon us somewhat), when it will presumably be pretty
darn hot. Good advice about getting an early start, it'll be great if we
can get on the trail and catch a nice sunrise. What sort of start would
that require - 6AM or so?

If you hike it, that will take up most of both days. A 1/2 day drive
along the east rim towards Cameron is well worth it. I like to make a
circle trip from Flagstaff to Cameron and then onto the canyon and then
back to Flagstaff. Very pretty drive.

Flagstaff has a considerable amount of hotels at MUCH lower prices than
at the canyon. Taking the old steam train from williams to the canyon
can also be fun.

I noticed Flagstaff had the usual chain motels, I figured it would probably
thus mean for a good base to sleep one night before exploreing Petrified
Forest and heading North, before perhaps returning to Flagstaff again before
heading to the South Rim of the Canyon.



Most of the time the west rim drive is closed except for vehicles with a
handicap license or placard. The east rim drive is always open and
there are several view points with parking. There is also parking at
the grand canyon village. If you arrive early at the village you should
easily find parking. Avoid holiday weekends there.

Thanks for the comments on parking, sounds like we shouldn't have too much
of a problem then so long as we don't drive into the Canyon in the middle of
the day. We'll probably be driving to the Canyon from Flagstaff, so should
hopefully be able to get there reasonably early.

"Graham Harrison" wrote in
message ...
Avis are often one of the more expensive car hire companies. Alamo,
Payless, Dollar, Budget might be worth considering. Also, consider
contacting people like Travel 2 (they only work through travel agencies)
and
Trailfinders who will sell you the flight plus car; might be a reasonable
deal. Interestingly they can end up selling Avis and Hertz at a
discount.

At first glance, local company FOX looked quite cheap, however their cost of
CDW jacked the price up quite a lot. Avis' quote included unlimited
mileage, without having to worry about what states we could/could not enter,
and included 'additional drivers insurance' or something along those lines,
which I believe was similar to CDW. Enterprise was the most expensive out
of the lot, it appeared that you pay the underage drivers fee per each
underage driver, which meant very little savings with multiple people. Have
not heard of Trailfinders, will check them out!

As far as radios are concerned I had a Taurus from Payless in Denver back
in
September (Ford Granada size) and it came with a radio and CD player.
Given the distances I would suggest that with 3/4 of you anything smaller
would be a false economy.

My biggest concern was where we'd fit all our luggage, and given the
relatively inexpensive cost of upgrading to a larger size car, I think we'll
get something with room to spare. I've not seen anywhere any options for
manual drive instead of automatic drive - have you come across this option
at all? None of us have ever driven automatics before, and what with having
to get used to right-lane driving, would be nice to have a system of driving
we're used to. Otherwise we should probably practice with automatics a
little in Britain before we go.


Glad to hear that staying at the airport motels won't be impossible. If its
only a few dollars more to get somewhere more central, we might plump for
that, it'll probably work out the same anyway when we factor in public
transport costs, etc.

Hmmm, this could be quite a useful program for me to buy. There's a 2004
version available to buy, which typically includes an extra PocketPC version
when I own a damned PalmOS. The driving directions would be handy. From
your pasting, it looks like it has a list of motels included - is this
comprehensive? If so it could be very useful. Are the maps easily
customisable? MSN Maps/Directions is functional, but fairly limited in
terms of being able to customise what does/doesn't appear on the maps.

Will print out the directions and have a good looksie!