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Deciding if an airline is safe to fly or not
I know this discussion has been started many times, but usually its of
the form "Is x airline safe?". Im interested in a more generic answer. I fly on average about 16-20 flights a month, mostly throughout Europe, The Middle East, and ocassionally Africa and Asia. I also know that of course even a "bad" airline is statistically much safer than the car ride to the airport. If you take into account the car rides I take in Africa and other parts, then you could probably include decrepit airlines. That being said - as pilots and other aviation experts - what do you take into consideration? Or do you just fly any airline and let chances fly? Specifically the ones Im looking at now: PIA - Have flown in the past, but when the EU put them on the black list I started avoiding them. But now Ive been booked again on an internal PIA flight. Air Blue - Pakistani budget airline that I typically prefer over Air Blue. Statistically they barely exist because they are new and have only been flying a short time. Is there any way to evaluate such an airline? Or is it worth it? Pulkovo (now becoming Rossia) - Used to fly Pulkovo a lot. I can deal with crappy service, but service wise Ive actually been satisfied with Pulkovo. But with a lot of time on Turkish, Olympic, and Cyprus Airways my standards have been set extremely low. Before flying Pulkovo years ago I found someone who actually did consutations to Pulkovo about aircraft maintenance etc and was satisfied there. However this last year Pulkovo has had a few incidents, most notably the one that crashed because the pilots didnt have training for extreme weather condition that they flew into and tried to climb above it. Of these - Pulkovo is the most "interesting" in my mind right now. One of my upcoming trips my choices become: a) Direct flight on Pulkovo with near perfect timing and days. $600 fare. b) Train to Moscow (early AM flight, too tight connection so must take train) and then direct flight from there. $1,000 on Aeroflot (service sucks, but safe) c) Other connecting flights at $1,000+ |
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Deciding if an airline is safe to fly or not
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Deciding if an airline is safe to fly or not
On Jun 17, 4:23 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
However, one can generally say that the Third World is much less safe, relatively speaking, than the First World. No surprise there. What I look at is the stability and resources of both the country of registration for an aircraft and the airline itself. If both have strictly Yes of course - all good advice. However Im looking for something a bit more pragmatic. I have to travel these countries anwyays. Emirates serves them, but I cant always get a seat on Emirates, or often its 10x the price because of availability, or it takes 36 hours instead of 5. So lets say Pulkovo has a fligth I need - or PIA, or whoever. What would you do pragmatically to decide if you would fly them or not? Russia of course is a pot shot of airlines. Aeroflot I'll fly, and I have friends that Aeroflot is the only airline they will fly. But Aeroflot involves an extra stop for me, and often has much worse connections. Pulkovo is local, and until this year I was "happy" with them. I believe the info I have on their maintenance, technics, and otherwise is still valid. Its just the recent crash and other smaller incidents have me considering other angles... And its not just Pulkovo - I have to evaluate different airlines from time to time... So if the choice often is Pulkovo (or someone else) for say $600, with direct flights at 4 hours and days I want, or some other carrier at $1200 with out direct flight, travel time of 10 hours, etc... And again, fill in other airlines for Pulkovo. That just happens to be an upcoming trip.... And I have a PIA flight before that, so wish me luck. |
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Deciding if an airline is safe to fly or not
wrote in message oups.com... I know this discussion has been started many times, but usually its of the form "Is x airline safe?". Im interested in a more generic answer. I fly on average about 16-20 flights a month, mostly throughout Europe, The Middle East, and ocassionally Africa and Asia. I also know that of course even a "bad" airline is statistically much safer than the car ride to the airport. If you take into account the car rides I take in Africa and other parts, then you could probably include decrepit airlines. That being said - as pilots and other aviation experts - what do you take into consideration? Or do you just fly any airline and let chances fly? Specifically the ones Im looking at now: PIA - Have flown in the past, but when the EU put them on the black list I started avoiding them. But now Ive been booked again on an internal PIA flight. Air Blue - Pakistani budget airline that I typically prefer over Air Blue. Statistically they barely exist because they are new and have only been flying a short time. Is there any way to evaluate such an airline? Or is it worth it? Pulkovo (now becoming Rossia) - Used to fly Pulkovo a lot. I can deal with crappy service, but service wise Ive actually been satisfied with Pulkovo. But with a lot of time on Turkish, Olympic, and Cyprus Airways my standards have been set extremely low. Before flying Pulkovo years ago I found someone who actually did consutations to Pulkovo about aircraft maintenance etc and was satisfied there. However this last year Pulkovo has had a few incidents, most notably the one that crashed because the pilots didnt have training for extreme weather condition that they flew into and tried to climb above it. Of these - Pulkovo is the most "interesting" in my mind right now. One of my upcoming trips my choices become: a) Direct flight on Pulkovo with near perfect timing and days. $600 fare. b) Train to Moscow (early AM flight, too tight connection so must take train) and then direct flight from there. $1,000 on Aeroflot (service sucks, but safe) c) Other connecting flights at $1,000+ My first flight was on a Bristol 170 of Silver City http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0874786/M/. During my childhood I also flew on Viscounts, Vanguards, BAC111s, a Caravelle, Britannia and a Czech Airlines Tu104 which was an experience!. In my 20s most of the aircraft were the new 707s, DC8s, DC9s, 727s, 737s and even 747s, Tristars and DC10s but by the end of my 20s some of those were finding their way to secondary airlines and I recall boarding a 727 at Lima which was painted in the colours of AeroPeru. Once inside everything was Lufthansa down to the emergency cards and sick bags. After a delay we were deboarded through the rear door that led *under* the centre engine; the woman in front of me got to the bottom of the steps and tried to light up. I think that was when I realised that safety standards in some countries is not the same as I'm used to in the UK. Now, it may be that my experience of flying in the 50s and 60s when things were definitely not the same as they are today makes me more relaxed about flying on some of the more interesting carriers. I have also been known to give some thought to using a "Western" airline into some interesting airports. In the end, you said it yourself; despite the issues with some airlines and airports flying is slmost certainly safer than equivalent methods of transport. Generally I pick airlines from the old "West Europe", US/Canada, Australasia, Japan and airlines like South African, Kenyan, Thai, Malaysian, Singapore and Cathay. But, I will travel on almost any other carrier as a means to an end. But I also take other things into account. For instance, some of the airlines in the 'stans of what used to be Russia are largely run by Europeans on contract; particularly the pilots and management. The airports may be an issue but because the aircraft are leased in and maintained to the standards of the "western" leasing company (some even retain western registrations) I take that into account. I would have some qualms about the same airlines using ex Russian equipment (but then I rode around China on CAAC before it got split up on 2 Tridents, 1 737, 1 An24 and 1 IL14). And, given the choice between a United Express RJ and a Frontier 737 for a flight Denver/Albequerque which would you choose? The Frontier flight stopped in Alberquerque and the RJ was non stop. Although the US regional safety record at the time was worse that the mainline carriers (and I put Frontier in that category) I chose the UA RJ on the basis that there is risk in each take off and landing. I think I'd go for Pulukovo/Rossia given the choices. |
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Deciding if an airline is safe to fly or not
On Jun 17, 8:31 pm, "Graham Harrison"
wrote: My first flight was on a Bristol 170 of Silver Cityhttp://www.airliners.net/open.file/0874786/M/. During my childhood I also flew on Viscounts, Vanguards, BAC111s, a Caravelle, Britannia and a Czech Aah yes, the nostalgic times. Its not so much old planes Im worried about - and back then they were new! So I guess I should say its not old model planes that would worry me, but planes that are truly old by being flown way too many times since production. Airlines Tu104 which was an experience!. In my 20s most of the aircraft They are of course flying 154's all over Russia still, as well as 134's and many other variants and even some Yak's. I flew via Kiev last week, and to my surprose VV still has one 737-200! It has the old cigar shaped engines. The Russian planes have them too, but usually in the tail. The 737-200 has them on the wing and I was right behind the wing. Sounds like a rocket sitting next to you. colours of AeroPeru. Once inside everything was Lufthansa down to the emergency cards and sick bags. After a delay we were deboarded through the Thats what makes Turkish fun. They replace parts, but dont change the languages on replacement parts. So an exit door or tray table might be in Chinese. I once counted 12 languages on a Turkish flight in addition to the normal Turkish + English. Generally I pick airlines from the old "West Europe", US/Canada, Australasia, Japan and airlines like South African, Kenyan, Thai, Malaysian, Singapore and Cathay. But, I will travel on almost any other carrier as a means to an end. I think maybe Ive fallen guilty of asking the wrong question. Instead of "how to determine if an airline is safe?", lets say "how to determine if an airline is UNSAFE"? ie surely there are airlines that should be avoided at nearly all costs. Certainly there are African carriers Id avoid, and likely Asian and Russian ones that would probably be better avoided as well? I flew the PIA flight no incident. Of course Ive flown them many times before... One of my fellow travelers told me something interesting, although I dont know if its true. He said the 747's that PIA flies are so old that Boeing has to make special parts for them. Well at least its not like the planes in Iran.... airlines in the 'stans of what used to be Russia are largely run by Europeans on contract; particularly the pilots and management. The Any way to get a list? S7 (www.s7.ru) is a new carrier in Russia. They appear to run all Boeing fleet. I havent seen if its leased, or what though. qualms about the same airlines using ex Russian equipment (but then I rode Actually Im fine on the TY/U 154 - if you look at its record, its not the plane that has caused its crashes. Its Ukranian missiles, pilots, wars, etc that regularly take it down. I think I'd go for Pulukovo/Rossia given the choices.- Hide quoted text - I found out since the flight is to Europe, its a 737 there and an Airbus back. So thats a bit helpful - so at least on the next trip Im flying Pulkovo/Rossiya. |
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