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#11
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Another CO Pet Peeve
"Binyamin Dissen" wrote in message ... On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 09:53:09 -0700 "PTRAVEL" wrote: [ snipped ] :Next thing I knew, the captain was standing next to me. He said, "I'm the :captain, and I'm telling you to leave the plane." I said, "Okay -- I always :follow the instructions of the crew. I'm leaving." I got up, and started :to get my bags out of the overhead. He said, "You don't have to do that." :I said, "Yes I do. My bags travel with me. If you're throwing me off this :flight, I'll take them off, too." The captain was removing you from the flight and not only didn't INSIST that you remove your bags, was willing to let you leave them behind?? That doesn't make much sense, especially post 9/11. Nothing about the incident made sense. [ snipped ] -- Binyamin Dissen http://www.dissensoftware.com |
#12
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Another CO Pet Peeve
"PTRAVEL" wrote in message ...
"Binyamin Dissen" wrote in message ... On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 09:53:09 -0700 "PTRAVEL" wrote: [ snipped ] :Next thing I knew, the captain was standing next to me. He said, "I'm the :captain, and I'm telling you to leave the plane." I said, "Okay -- I always :follow the instructions of the crew. I'm leaving." I got up, and started :to get my bags out of the overhead. He said, "You don't have to do that." :I said, "Yes I do. My bags travel with me. If you're throwing me off this :flight, I'll take them off, too." The captain was removing you from the flight and not only didn't INSIST that you remove your bags, was willing to let you leave them behind?? That doesn't make much sense, especially post 9/11. Nothing about the incident made sense. It made perfect sense to me! Let's go back to your original narrative. You said above "I always follow the instructions of the crew ...". No, you didn't. And you didn't even realize, in hindsight, that you didn't! PTR The FA takes both boarding passes, comes PTR back in a few minutes and says, rather curtly, "You've cancelled your PTR flight. You'll have to leave the plane." I toldl her that I hadn't PTR cancelled my flight (remember, at this point I had no idea that the desk PTR agent had screwed up), and I wasn't leaving the plane unless the Captain PTR told me to. The FA left, and I pulled The FA was a member of the crew, wasn't she? At THAT point, all the FA and the Captain knew was that somebody cancelled your flight. Even you didn't know who did it. You were making a SCENE, and probably obstructing the traffic of other passengers, and you forced the issue of having the Captain to tell you to leave the plane, while everyone (yourself included) had a chance to find out what exactly happened. At THAT point, all ensuing events pointed to the fact that the Captain had ALREADY knew that a mistake had been made by SOMEONE, and had decided to accommodate you even if it was YOU who made the mistake, so that you wouldn't miss your flight, by giving you an available seat, whether it's in coach or First Class. I think THAT was what explained: :I got up, and started :to get my bags out of the overhead. He said, "You don't have to do that." He wasn't "throwing you off" (that was YOUR words). He was merely telling you that you must leave the plane (during the PENDING/further investigation) and that you don't have to take your bag until they decided WHERE to seat you (or, in the worst case scenario, eject you from that flight -- you would THEN be asked to take your bag in the overhead compartment with you). :I said, "Yes I do. My bags travel with me. If you're throwing me off this :flight, I'll take them off, too." At this point, the Captain was doing his best to accommodate you, and it was to his credit that he didn't argue with you or acted as rudely as you did. After he ascertained that it was the President's Club's agent that made the mistake, your First Class seat was restored back to you, wasn't it? Under NO CONCEIVABLE circumstance would what the Captain said to you to be construed as "throwing you out of the plane" as having decided NOT to allow you to be on that flight, and yet told you that you didn't have to take your bag! It would be against airline regulation. It would be against all commonsense. That would be the surest way for any Captain to lose his job should he acted that way: eject a passenger from a flight, and take off with the passenger's carryon without the passenger. It's surprising how even after the fact, when all had be rectified, that you STILL didn't see what was actually going on. It was clear to ME that the Captain was doing his best to make it as pleasant for YOU and everyone else on the plane (given your LOUD and obnoxious behavior), revealed in your OWN description (which you didn't quite realized that you were rather unreasonable in making a mountain out of a mole hill} -- such as making a big issue out of getting a 2E seat back instead of a window seat, or window seat 1F -- you were ALSO accommodated on that -- getting your 1F seat back! JMHO. -- Bob. |
#13
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Another CO Pet Peeve
"Reef Fish" wrote in message m... "PTRAVEL" wrote in message ... "Binyamin Dissen" wrote in message ... On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 09:53:09 -0700 "PTRAVEL" wrote: [ snipped ] :Next thing I knew, the captain was standing next to me. He said, "I'm the :captain, and I'm telling you to leave the plane." I said, "Okay -- I always :follow the instructions of the crew. I'm leaving." I got up, and started :to get my bags out of the overhead. He said, "You don't have to do that." :I said, "Yes I do. My bags travel with me. If you're throwing me off this :flight, I'll take them off, too." The captain was removing you from the flight and not only didn't INSIST that you remove your bags, was willing to let you leave them behind?? That doesn't make much sense, especially post 9/11. Nothing about the incident made sense. It made perfect sense to me! Let's go back to your original narrative. You said above "I always follow the instructions of the crew ...". No, you didn't. And you didn't even realize, in hindsight, that you didn't! PTR The FA takes both boarding passes, comes PTR back in a few minutes and says, rather curtly, "You've cancelled your PTR flight. You'll have to leave the plane." I toldl her that I hadn't PTR cancelled my flight (remember, at this point I had no idea that the desk PTR agent had screwed up), and I wasn't leaving the plane unless the Captain PTR told me to. The FA left, and I pulled The FA was a member of the crew, wasn't she? Yes, she was. A rude and abusive one, and the flight was not under way, nor the door closed. I follow all crew instructions, except hers. Okay? At THAT point, all the FA and the Captain knew was that somebody cancelled your flight. Even you didn't know who did it. On the contrary, all I knew was that the flight _hadn't_ been cancelled. I had checked in just an hour before, and was provided with a boarding pass by Continental's system. You were making a SCENE, Nope. No scene -- I never raised my voice, I was never impolite, etc. and probably obstructing the traffic of other passengers, Nope. Wrong again. I was in my seat. The passenger with the other boarding pass for my seat had taken in the next row. No obstruction. and you forced the issue of having the Captain to tell you to leave the plane, while everyone (yourself included) had a chance to find out what exactly happened. You are making a lot of assumptions, most of which are wrong, about what happened. I did force the issue to this extent -- the FA tried to kick me off because of an error CO made, that I knew nothing about. The captain _did_ kick me off, for the same reason. It was handled by the FA and, to a lesser extent, the captain, by a notable lack of courtesy -- she was rude, arrogant and accusatory from the _beginning_ of the encounter. At THAT point, all ensuing events pointed to the fact that the Captain had ALREADY knew that a mistake had been made by SOMEONE, and had decided to accommodate you even if it was YOU who made the mistake, I was thrown off the airplane. How is that accomodating to me? I was told that the airplane was full, but they'd try to find room for me in _coach_, despite the fact that I had paid _full fare_ to sit in F, and that the whole situation was solely the fault of CO, and not me. How is that accomodating? so that you wouldn't miss your flight, by giving you an available seat, whether it's in coach or First Class. If you ever pay $2000+ for first class, and then are told to sit in a $200 coach seat, be sure and report back how you feel about it. They also didn't care much about my missing the flight, as they had thrown me off of it. If there hadn't been room, do you think they would have thrown some other passenger off of it to make room for me? Remember -- their screw up, which they subsequently handled badly. I think THAT was what explained: :I got up, and started :to get my bags out of the overhead. He said, "You don't have to do that." He wasn't "throwing you off" (that was YOUR words). He was merely telling you that you must leave the plane (during the PENDING/further investigation) Other than that, how did you enjoy the play, Mrs. Lincoln? I had been comfortably settled into my seat. If they wanted to investigate, it could have been done just as easily by letting me stay there. Instead, the FA said, "You cancelled your ticket. You'll have to get off the plane." The pilot said, "I'm the pilot, and I'm telling you to get off the plane." No one said, "We're really sorry, but until we figure out what happened, would you mind waiting on the jetway?" Again, you're making plenty of assumptions, based on little or know information. and that you don't have to take your bag until they decided WHERE to seat you (or, in the worst case scenario, eject you from that flight -- you would THEN be asked to take your bag in the overhead compartment with you). At the time, I thought it odd that the pilot said I could leave my bags in the overhead. However, after being accosted by the crew in this fashion, my only concern was that I not be the victim of any more CO screwups. My carryons, besides containing suits and the like which I needed, also had medication which I take to stay alive, an expensive laptop computer, a printer, etc. I was not about to be separated from all of that. :I said, "Yes I do. My bags travel with me. If you're throwing me off this :flight, I'll take them off, too." At this point, the Captain was doing his best to accommodate you, and it was to his credit that he didn't argue with you or acted as rudely as you did. I didn't act rudely. (More assumptions, more errors on your part). I never acted rudely at any time. And if this is the best that the Captain could do to accomodate a passenger who (1) was flying on a $2,000+ ticket, and (2) was platinum with CO, then he needs some diplomacy lessons. The FA was rude, arrogant and accusatory -- with her very first exchange, she humiliated me and insulted me. The temptation was to be rude and insulting in return -- but I wasn't. I explained, politely, the situation. The captain wasn't discourteous -- he simply gave me an order, with which I immediately complied. It was phrased as a request, and it wasn't offered with an explanation or apology. After he ascertained that it was the President's Club's agent that made the mistake, your First Class seat was restored back to you, wasn't it? No. First, he didn't ascertain anything (nor did I expect him to) -- he simply went back to his pre-flight check. A CO ground rep met me in the jetway, and went through the same routine: "YOU cancelled your flight, etc." and said they'd try to find me a seat in coach. By that time, I had found out what had happened from my TA, told the rep, and told her I'd sue CO if I missed my flight because of the Presidents Club rep's mistake. That's when I was "allowed" to wait in the sweltering jetway while she went to verify my story. Upon her return, instead of receiving a sincere apology, I was told, "it was an honest mistake," and was told that they, "found room for me in F," and was told to sit in 2E. The point you seem to miss is that it is not just the fact of the mistake, but the rudeness and arrogance with which the Atlanta FA, ground rep and pilot handled the mistake, that I object to. Under NO CONCEIVABLE circumstance would what the Captain said to you to be construed as "throwing you out of the plane" as having decided NOT to allow you to be on that flight, and yet told you that you didn't have to take your bag! Well, to me, "You'll have to get off the plane," means "you'll have to get off the plane." It does not mean, "we're going to find another seat for you," or, "we're going to find out what happened." It would be against airline regulation. It would be against all commonsense. Again, you're making assumptions based on no information whatsoever. For all I know, the Captain didn't want me pulling down my bags because it did, briefly, hold up boarding (remember this was a very full flight). _I_ asssume (and since _I_ was there, my assumptions are, at least, based on full information) is that, after boarding was complete, if they hadn't found a coach seat to stuff me into, they would have pulled off my bags. As I already explained, I had no intention of being separated from my bags _at_any_point. That would be the surest way for any Captain to lose his job should he acted that way: eject a passenger from a flight, and take off with the passenger's carryon without the passenger. If, in fact, that's what he would have done. See above. It's surprising how even after the fact, when all had be rectified, that you STILL didn't see what was actually going on. It's surprising to me how you've twisted the facts that I've reported to support a lot of assumptions which, for the most part, are completely wrong. It was clear to ME that the Captain was doing his best to make it as pleasant for YOU and everyone else on the plane (given your LOUD and obnoxious behavior), That's an example of what I mean. I wasn't loud. I wasn't obnoxious. You, however, have grown insulting and tedious. Conversation over. revealed in your OWN description (which you didn't quite realized that you were rather unreasonable in making a mountain out of a mole hill} -- such as making a big issue out of getting a 2E seat back instead of a window seat, or window seat 1F -- you were ALSO accommodated on that -- getting your 1F seat back! JMHO. -- Bob. |
#14
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Another CO Pet Peeve
"PTRAVEL" wrote in message ...
"Reef Fish" wrote in message m... PTR Nothing about the incident made sense. RF It made perfect sense to me! Let's go back to your original narrative. You said above "I always follow the instructions of the crew ...". No, you didn't. And you didn't even realize, in hindsight, that you didn't! PTR The FA takes both boarding passes, comes back in a few PTR minutes and says, rather curtly, "You've cancelled your PTR flight. You'll have to leave the plane." I toldl her PTR that I hadn't cancelled my flight (remember, at this point PTR I had no idea that the desk agent had screwed up), and I PTR wasn't leaving the plane unless the Captain told me to. PTR The FA left, and I pulled The FA was a member of the crew, wasn't she? Yes, she was. A rude and abusive one, and the flight was not under way, nor the door closed. I follow all crew instructions, except hers. Okay? I was just pointing out that you contradicted yourself, in your own narrative! At THAT point, all the FA and the Captain knew was that somebody cancelled your flight. Even you didn't know who did it. On the contrary, all I knew was that the flight _hadn't_ been cancelled. I had checked in just an hour before, and was provided with a boarding pass by Continental's system. But you DIDN'T know at that point that your boarding pass to the flight had INDEED been cancelled! Both the FA and the Captain had more CURRENT information than you had, at the time. and you forced the issue of having the Captain to tell you to leave the plane, while everyone (yourself included) had a chance to find out what exactly happened. You are making a lot of assumptions, most of which are wrong, about what happened. What wrong assumption did I make? 1. It was only AFTER the Captain had told you to leave your seat (which had been assigned to another passenger) that YOU called your travel agent on the cell phone to learn that your boarding pass to the seat 1F (which you THOUGHT you were entitled) had indeed been cancelled. 2. The Captain and crew DID find out exactly what happened and restored your seat to First Class, in 2E. I did force the issue to this extent -- the FA tried to kick me off because of an error CO made, that I knew nothing about. She was just doing her job, given the info that the seat 1F previously assigned to you (on your boarding pass) was cancelled. Just because YOU knew nothing about it didn't give you the right to be obnoxious and rude, as your own narrative of the incident revealed. If you ever pay $2000+ for first class, and then are told to sit in a $200 coach seat, be sure and report back how you feel about it. Non sequitur and irrelevant to the present discussion about YOUR incident. I had already indicated I would have acted differently. If that happened to ME, the issue would have been resolved without the kind of attitude and behavior exhibited by you, during the incident AND after the fact, even after the ONE mistake had been completely rectified. Again, you're making plenty of assumptions, based on little or know information. I was basing my comments ENTIRELY on the information YOU (PTRAVEL) provided, even without the opposing view by the FA and Captain which I am quite sure would not be the same as yours! ;o) After he ascertained that it was the President's Club's agent that made the mistake, your First Class seat was restored back to you, wasn't it? No. What do you mean "No"? What was that you said NOW (below)? was told that they, "found room for me in F," and was told to sit in 2E. The remainder of your tedious follow-up was nothing more than a rehash of the SAME FACTS that you had already given in your initial LENGTHY narrative, save a few mis-recollection by YOU of what you had written! It's counterproductive to continue beyond the re-establishment of facts above. Again, you're making assumptions based on no information whatsoever. Now THAT's FUNNY! I have already debunked your previous allegations of "making assumptions". Everything I commented upon was based solely on what YOU (PTRAVEL) described, and my opinion based thereupon. You, however, have grown insulting and tedious. Conversation over. Excellent. You and I both had our say -- I wouldn't have given my initial comments, as softly as I did, had you not asked me directly for them. Readers can decide for themselves who was "rude", "insulting", and "tedious" based on what had already been said, and rehashed. revealed in your OWN description (which you didn't quite realized that you were rather unreasonable in making a mountain out a mole hill} -- such as making a big issue out of getting a 2E seat back instead of a window seat, or window seat 1F -- you were ALSO accommodated on that -- getting your 1F seat back! JMHO. -- Bob. JMHO once more. -- Bob. |
#15
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Another CO Pet Peeve
CO is still keeping P inventory available
right until time of departure. Gordon bethune is still waitng for the last minute full fare pax to turn up. This is true and is why Business First was such a great deal for employees flying standby. If you found 20 open seats in Business First 12 hours prior to flight time, there was a good chance that all of them would still be empty at the time of departure and available for employeetravel. I'm surely nobody special, but my wife and I got Business First seats to Europe and Asia about 80% of the time. This is one case where the airline"s greed came out as a bonus for employees. Jerry in LAS |
#16
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Another CO Pet Peeve
I have been moved to first class after being seated in coach, with my wife
and daughter twice. They said it was to balance the aircraft for takeoff. DM |
#17
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Another CO Pet Peeve
I have been moved to first class after being seated in coach, with my wife
and daughter twice. They said it was to balance the aircraft for takeoff. Sometimes it's neat to be ballast. Jerry in LAS |
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