Southern Utah - one more question

We're getting along on our planning, so thanks for the help so far.

Is there a logical place to spend a night between Bryce Canyon and Moab?
Would Bicknell or Torrey be a good choice? Anywhere else? Or would we do
better to face the long drive and spend a fourth night in either the Bryce
area or Moab?
Somewhere else?

I'm a bit surprised about how crowded it already seems at that time of year,
but I've literally been watching hotel room availability disappear before my
eyes, and the prices keep going up alarmingly fast. This isn't the first
vacation we've worked out on the Internet, but it's not as fun as it used to
be.

Keith

"k" wrote:

Is there a logical place to spend a night between Bryce Canyon and Moab?
Would Bicknell or Torrey be a good choice? Anywhere else?

It isn't that far from Bryce to Escalante. If you plan to do some
exploring and hiking in the Escalante/HITR area, however, it would
make sense to spend the night there before driving up over the Hogback
to Boulder. That would also allow you to do some interesting things on
the way to, and around, Boulder -- like the hike to Calf Creek Falls,
or an in-and-out drive on the paved portion of the Burr Trail Road
into Long Canyon east of Boulder.

The drive over the eastern end of Boulder Mountain to Torry will take
you to 9,000 - 10,000 feet and there will probably be snow everywhere
off the main road. When I drove that road in late April last year the
plows had cleared the route through 6' to 9' snow drifts. But the
views from up there are incomparable -- you can look down on Capitol
Reef and the entire Waterpocket Fold. Take your time on this route.

Torrey is the only reasonable place to spend the night once you
approach Capitol Reef NP. There are several motels in this town, and
it is only a short drive downhill to Fruita within the Park. Take the
Goosenecks Overlook side trip. And if you want a nice hike I recommend
Cohab Canyon (you can start off the highway west of Fruita, or at the
campground within the Park a mile or so down the entrance road past
the Visitor's Center). There are also many good scenic pullouts and
side trips to very interesting natural formations like Hickman Bridge.

Or would we do better to face the long drive and spend a fourth night in
either the Bryce area or Moab?

As has already been pointed out, it would be a huge waste of a
lifetime opportunity to rush through one of the most lovely places on
the planet in one long day. Slow down and enjoy it.

I'm a bit surprised about how crowded it already seems at that time of year,
but I've literally been watching hotel room availability disappear before my
eyes, and the prices keep going up alarmingly fast.

Spring and fall are the best times to visit this area. In summer it
gets quite hot at the lower elevations. Winters are brutal. And
because there isn't much choice of accommodations in this region, it
fills up quickly during the desirable months. Book now.

This isn't the first vacation we've worked out on the Internet, but
it's not as fun as it used to be.

There are more people, and the scenic places don't grow to accommodate
that fact. The result is crowding. But if you think this area in Utah
is bad, try booking a complex trip in Europe during the high season
on the Internet (:-o).

Count your blessings,


Caveat

"Caveat" wrote in message
...
"k" wrote:

Is there a logical place to spend a night between Bryce Canyon and Moab?
Would Bicknell or Torrey be a good choice? Anywhere else?

It isn't that far from Bryce to Escalante. If you plan to do some
exploring and hiking in the Escalante/HITR area, however, it would
make sense to spend the night there before driving up over the Hogback
to Boulder. That would also allow you to do some interesting things on
the way to, and around, Boulder -- like the hike to Calf Creek Falls,
or an in-and-out drive on the paved portion of the Burr Trail Road
into Long Canyon east of Boulder.

The drive over the eastern end of Boulder Mountain to Torry will take
you to 9,000 - 10,000 feet and there will probably be snow everywhere
off the main road. When I drove that road in late April last year the
plows had cleared the route through 6' to 9' snow drifts. But the
views from up there are incomparable -- you can look down on Capitol
Reef and the entire Waterpocket Fold. Take your time on this route.

Torrey is the only reasonable place to spend the night once you
approach Capitol Reef NP. There are several motels in this town, and
it is only a short drive downhill to Fruita within the Park. Take the
Goosenecks Overlook side trip. And if you want a nice hike I recommend
Cohab Canyon (you can start off the highway west of Fruita, or at the
campground within the Park a mile or so down the entrance road past
the Visitor's Center). There are also many good scenic pullouts and
side trips to very interesting natural formations like Hickman Bridge.

Or would we do better to face the long drive and spend a fourth night in
either the Bryce area or Moab?

As has already been pointed out, it would be a huge waste of a
lifetime opportunity to rush through one of the most lovely places on
the planet in one long day. Slow down and enjoy it.

I'm a bit surprised about how crowded it already seems at that time of
year,
but I've literally been watching hotel room availability disappear before
my
eyes, and the prices keep going up alarmingly fast.

Spring and fall are the best times to visit this area. In summer it
gets quite hot at the lower elevations. Winters are brutal. And
because there isn't much choice of accommodations in this region, it
fills up quickly during the desirable months. Book now.

This isn't the first vacation we've worked out on the Internet, but
it's not as fun as it used to be.

There are more people, and the scenic places don't grow to accommodate
that fact. The result is crowding. But if you think this area in Utah
is bad, try booking a complex trip in Europe during the high season
on the Internet (:-o).

Count your blessings,


Caveat

Thanks again, Caveat. Your help has proven to be invaluable. We'll spend a
night in the Torrey area, and we've allowed a few unplanned days after Moab
to head back toward Las Vegas. Reading about and seeing pictures of the
areas we'll be passing through, we may well just backtrack much of the way
to see it in reverse, and to spend a little time where we hurried through in
the other direction.

After Torrey/Capitol Reef, et al, should we take the northern route over to
Moab, or is the loop south around Canyonlands worth the extra driving?

Here's what we have planned so far.

Day 1 we'll pick up a car in Las Vegas, lay in some supplies and a cooler,
and drive only as far as Lake Mead, probably visit the dam because major
constructions interest me.

The next day we'll drive the route north thru the Lake Mead Recreation area
and pick up I-15. I have three nights booked in Hurricane, which was the
closest I could get to Zion NP given that we arrrive on Easter. We found an
outfit that offers horseback riding inside the park, so we'll do that for
half a day, and spend the rest of the time nosing around the park and other
areas of interest.

Bryce is next, and we have three nights at the Bryce View Lodge, which is
part of Ruby's and right across the street. We have another horseback ride
there, and will probably rent ATVs.

We'll spend the next night in the Torrey area and try some of the
hikes/drives you suggested. Then it's on to Moab for three nights. We may
rent a jeep for a day to visit the Needles area of Canyonlands, and will try
a gentle river ride, possibly some biking. Somewhere in there we'll get in
a half day at Arches NP, and some time visiting Island in the Sky. Our
hotel there is La Quinta, and our experience with them has been good.

That gives us until Friday night to get back to Las Vegas (three full days),
and like I said, we may actually backtrack. My experience on beautiful
roads (like Canada's Icefields Parkway) is that each directions is separate
and distinct from the other, and therefore both are good. And my wife and I
can alternate driving on different segments than on the way out, making it
doubly good.

We'll just sleep in Las Vegas the last night, and use up a Ruth's Chris
certificate that we probably won't ever use around here, then it's back home
on Saturday morning.

I want to say thanks one more time to everyone who has offered suggestions,
and to assure you that we've listened and looked carefully. We obviously
can't do everything in two weeks, but I'm sure this trip will be memorable.
If we feel we missed too much, we can always go back.

Keith

"k" wrote:

snippage

Thanks again, Caveat. Your help has proven to be invaluable. We'll spend a
night in the Torrey area, and we've allowed a few unplanned days after Moab
to head back toward Las Vegas. Reading about and seeing pictures of the
areas we'll be passing through, we may well just backtrack much of the way
to see it in reverse, and to spend a little time where we hurried through in
the other direction.
After Torrey/Capitol Reef, et al, should we take the northern route over to
Moab, or is the loop south around Canyonlands worth the extra driving?

The only paved route from the Capitol Reef NP area (at Fruita) "south
around Canyonlands" is from Torrey=Hanksville=Hite=Natural
Bridges=Blanding=Monticello=Moab. You could do that if you intended
to return to Fruita (via I-70), and retrace the route to Boulder,
Bryce, etc. Or you could do it in the other direction (clockwise).

But personally, I would opt to go to Moab first via I-70, then head
south to Blanding, west to Natural Bridges, then *south* across Cedar
Mesa down the Moki Dugway to Mexican Hat (Route 261), then through
Monument Valley to Kayenta, west on 160, and then to Page via Hwy 98.
You could then go through Fredonia (89A) or Kanab(89) to I-15.

As I recall, you had an interest in seeing Lake Powell. Unless you go
either to Page or Bullfrog (a paved side trip on the road from
Hanksville to Hite), you won't see it. Despite what the maps say, it
*isn't* at Hite -- the marina is high and dry (kinda interesting), and
where the lake was at full pool is now just a grassy valley :-).

Here's what we have planned so far.

Day 1 we'll pick up a car in Las Vegas, lay in some supplies and a cooler,
and drive only as far as Lake Mead, probably visit the dam because major
constructions interest me.

Heh-heh, there's lots of that there now -- they are building a new
highway and bridge across the Colorado downstream from the dam.

The next day we'll drive the route north thru the Lake Mead Recreation area
and pick up I-15. I have three nights booked in Hurricane,

No much there...

which was the
closest I could get to Zion NP given that we arrrive on Easter. We found an
outfit that offers horseback riding inside the park, so we'll do that for
half a day, and spend the rest of the time nosing around the park and other
areas of interest.

Bryce is next, and we have three nights at the Bryce View Lodge, which is
part of Ruby's and right across the street. We have another horseback ride
there, and will probably rent ATVs.

There are hundreds of miles of ATV trails west of the park, including
The Paunsaugunt Trail at Tropic Reservoir (75 miles of
interconnecting loops), the 50-mile Fremont Trail which travels north
past Red Canyon which crosses the Sevier Plateau to Circleville, where
it accesses the Paiute Trail. The side trip down Castro Canyon near
Red Canyon is highly recommended. These trails are all within the
Dixie NF, and you can get a copy of the Escalante/Teasdale/Powell
Travel Map at the Red Canyon Visitors Center west of Bryce.

We'll spend the next night in the Torrey area and try some of the
hikes/drives you suggested...

The parking lot on the highway east of Fruita for Hickman Natural
Bridge is one of the entrance trailheads to Cohab Canyon. Walk all the
way through the canyon (2 miles, RT) to the ridge overlooking the
campground, and check out the short slot canyons near there to the
south on the way back to your car. Very special. You should also
understand the history of the area. It's a different kind of place...

http://www.nps.gov/care/resources/ad...tory/adhi4.htm

..then it's on to Moab for three nights. We may
rent a jeep for a day to visit the Needles area of Canyonlands, and will try
a gentle river ride, possibly some biking...

Sounds like too much is on your plate there. I'd spend a half-day in
Arches and then drive up the Colorado River to the Fisher Towers Area,
returning to Moab around the Castle Valley-La Sals loop road. Then a
second day seeing Dead Horse Point/Island in the Sky (in the am),
followed by a fla****er raft trip down the Colorado (but upstream from
the Green River). If you leave town on your way south towards Blanding
you could pop into the Needles area at least to Newspaper Rock. You
won't be able to see much further on unless you have a lot of time to
burn Jeeping dirt roads and hiking.

I want to say thanks one more time to everyone who has offered suggestions,
and to assure you that we've listened and looked carefully. We obviously
can't do everything in two weeks, but I'm sure this trip will be memorable.
If we feel we missed too much, we can always go back.

Glad we were able to help, Keith. Have a great trip.


Caveat

If you can get a reservation I'd suggest http://www.boulder-utah.com/ rather
than Torrey. Nothing against Torrey, we spent one night there in the Days
Inn back in October but the Boulder Mountain Lodge and its' associated
restaurant is really rather nice.

Our route was Denver/Great Sand Dunes (1 night)/Mesa Verde (2
n)/Hoveweep/Blanding (1n)/Natural Bridges/Moki Dugway (bit of a wow
factor)/Goosenecks/Monument Valley/Blanding (1 n)/Southern End of
Canyonlands/Moab (1n)/Arches (1n)/Northern end Canyonlands/Moab (1n)/via
Green River/Capitol Reef/Torrey (1n)/Escalante/Boulder (1n)/Calf Creek
Canyon hike/Boulder (1n)/Grand Junction (1n)/Denver.

I preferred the Southern end of Canyonlands to Nothern. In Arches, didn't
do the Delicate Arch trail did Double O instead which takes you past many
more Arches. Moki Dugway was "wow" partly because I wasn't expecting it.
A steep dirt road down a cliif face connecting standard paved roads. The
drive from Torrey down through Boulder to Escalante is just beautiful.
Between the car park for Calf Creek Canyon and Escalante there's a coffee
house which is worth stopping in (for a coffee!) if you have the time. If
you're in any way musical look out for the flute shop just south of Torrey.



"k" wrote in message
ink.net...
We're getting along on our planning, so thanks for the help so far.

Is there a logical place to spend a night between Bryce Canyon and Moab?
Would Bicknell or Torrey be a good choice? Anywhere else? Or would we do
better to face the long drive and spend a fourth night in either the Bryce
area or Moab?
Somewhere else?

I'm a bit surprised about how crowded it already seems at that time of
year,
but I've literally been watching hotel room availability disappear before
my
eyes, and the prices keep going up alarmingly fast. This isn't the first
vacation we've worked out on the Internet, but it's not as fun as it used
to
be.

Keith

You seem to know that part of the world quite well, Caveat.

About a decade ago, there was a threat to pave the road through Red Rock
Canyon. I wrote to Utah and California members of congress to discourage
that. Has it happened? If so, has the result been as unfortunate as I
feared it would be?

What about Bear Creek Road?

-- __________________________________________________ ______________
A San Franciscan who's visited 49 of 50 US states.
http://geocities.com/dancefest/ --- http://geocities.com/iconoc/
ICQ: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/19098103 ------- IClast at Gmail com



[Content below asterisks not mine.]
************************************************** *****************

















*** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com ***
*** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from http://www.SecureIX.com ***

k wrote:

If we feel we missed too much, we can always go back.


Even if you haven't missed too much, like me you'll probably return as
often as possible, it's that wonderful!

George

Icono Clast wrote:

You seem to know that part of the world quite well, Caveat.

It's one of the advantages of having been around for a long time. (You
are familiar with that problem also, I believe.) The Colorado Plateau
has been my passion for more than 50 years (I did Glen Canyon before
the damn dam). And, as you know, the struggles to which you allude
have been long and bitter. But Abbey wrote all about that, and this
group probably doesn't deserve a flame war on environmental matters.

About a decade ago, there was a threat to pave the road through Red Rock
Canyon. I wrote to Utah and California members of congress to discourage
that. Has it happened? If so, has the result been as unfortunate as I
feared it would be? What about Bear Creek Road?

Ah, now we come to a disadvantage of having been around a long time.
Having lived in a dozen states (mostly in California in my early
years, though), I know of several Red Rock Canyons (near Las Vegas,
Mojave in CA, etc) and even more Bear Creek Roads (in several states).
Since you live in the SF Bay Area, you probably mean the BCR near
Orinda. Although I lived in that area for many years, that was many
more years ago, so am not familiar with any recent access issues
there. So, sorry, I don't know the answer to your question.


Caveat

Caveat wrote:
Icono Clast wrote:
You seem to know that part of the world quite well, Caveat.

About a decade ago, there was a threat to pave the road through Red
Rock Canyon. I wrote to Utah and California members of congress to
discourage that. Has it happened?

The road to which I refer, now being unsure of the name, is in Utah. I
believe it starts in Saint George and part of it traverses Capitol Reef
National Monument, where the folds are. Near the Saint George end is a
side road that goes through a petrified forest. Every local told me to
take another route in my ordinary four-door sedan but I ignored them and
cherish the experience.

In the narrow gorge was a box where I signed an "I was here" book.

If so, has the result been as unfortunate as I feared it would be?
What about Bear Creek Road?

Bear Creek Road is also in Utah but it's just nice, through forest, not
spectacular.

I don't know the answer to your question.

Take that back! Please.

-- __________________________________________________ ______________
A San Franciscan who's visited 49 of 50 US states.
http://geocities.com/dancefest/ --- http://geocities.com/iconoc/
ICQ: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/19098103 ------- IClast at Gmail com



[Content below asterisks not mine.]
************************************************** *****************

















*** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com ***
*** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from http://www.SecureIX.com ***

Caveat wrote:
OK, the track to which you are referring is the Burr Trail.

Yes! I couldn't bring the name to mind. When y'gits to be my age . . .

It starts at Boulder and goes east across the Waterpocket Fold
through Capitol Reef NP then south to Bullfrog.

Yes!

The dispute about paving that road was between the locals (who wanted
to pave the long dirt road to attract tourism) and several
special-interest groups who wanted to protect the land from
development

That's why my protest.

-- later joined by the not-beloved Feds (both the BLM and NPS tried
to stop the road improvements in the early 90s which crossed land
which they managed and they claimed "owned").

After years of bickering, the Country Road Department said something
like "screw them" just went out and paved most of the road (up to the
border with CRNP) in a pointed obscene gesture to the Sierra Club et
al, and the Federal Government.

What a shame.

The Feds were flummoxed at that point because to then go in and tear
up that road would cause more damage than paving it did. Garfield
County had created "facts on the ground". A more complete version of
the above oversimplified history is he

http://www.rs2477roads.com/2burr.htm

Thank you.

I used that road frequently before and during that dispute, and found
out accidentally on one trip from east to west that the road was
paved. Regardless of one's position on the dispute, most everyone who
drives it today appreciates the new easy access to some gorgeous
country and the Feds now advertise it like it was their idea:

http://www.nps.gov/glca/burrtr.htm
http://www.boulderutah.com/burr.html

One should note that the eastern end through CRNP and south to
Bullfrog is NOT paved, quite rough, floods near the Bullfrog end (as
it did last year) and the paving on the paved section is not very
robust. Prospective travelers should carry emergency supplies and ask
locally first about conditions before venturing off.

In the narrow gorge was a box where I signed an "I was here" book.

Probably in Long Canyon, although there is a dirt loop road that
gives one access to the canyons on the east side of the Escalante --
Silver Falls, Moody, and scattered remnants of a petrified forest.

I don't know the answer to your question.

Take that back! Please.

OK, I was only kidding :-).

Whew! I am relieved.

Found this. I'll send the rest of the text to you when I have your address.

================================================== =============
Date: 07-31-94 (14:56) From: ICONO CLAST To: MICHAEL MEANEY
Subj: EXPERT on Utah needed! PRIVATE
----------------------------------------------------------------------
MM Does anyone out there know where a place called Antelope Canyon is?

Please, I beg you, visit this place and keep your mouth shut. Take
your pictures, but don't let anyone know where to go. This place is
just too precious which is exactly why you want to go there . . . letter
I wrote to the Congressman. When you return from your visit, I urge you
to write to him to stop any "improvement" that would tend to destroy
this exquisite little treasure.

-- __________________________________________________ ______________
A San Franciscan who's visited 49 of 50 US states.
http://geocities.com/dancefest/ --- http://geocities.com/iconoc/
ICQ: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/19098103 ------- IClast at Gmail com



[Content below asterisks not mine.]
************************************************** *****************



















*** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com ***
*** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from http://www.SecureIX.com ***