Traveling Overseas Without Shots?

I'm planning to travel to Kenya, Tanzania, and Zanzibar Island this
xmas break on an educational tour. Myself and some of the people in
the group aren't comfortable getting shots/vaccinations and would feel
more comfortable taking the natural route. I myself am a vegetarian
and consume mostly organic foods. So the idea of taking drugs doesn't
sit too well with me.

Has anyone traveled to Africa without taking shots? Are you familiar
with any natural antibiotics and preventative medicines? The group
leader recommended Quinine to protect against malaria. Also, I've been
doing some reading on colloidal silver, a natural antibiotic (I
actually used it once and it works great but I didn't know that it was
good as a protectant against malaria). Has anyone heard of or
experienced any other natural medicine?

I hear that yellow fever immunizations may be required when traveling
to Kenya. Is this true?

Here's the bottom line... All of the people (and I know many, many
cases) I know who have contracted malaria have one of two things in
common:
a) They were not dilligent about taking the conventional medical drugs
(mefloquine, doxycycline, etc) or
b) The were using homeopathic prophylaxis.

I don't know of ONE SINGLE CASE of anyone in sub-saharan Africa who
has dilligently taken the conventional meds and still contracted the
disease. This includes the Chloroquine/proguanil combination.

I was close to two people who DIED from malaria. Both of them were on
some form of homeopathic prophylaxis, in spite of warnings against
them. Both also tried homeopathic treatment of the malaria and refused
conventional medical treatment. Both of them died after slipping into
a coma.

Why is called "slipping into a coma"? It sounds so serene and
peaceful. In reality, going into a coma due to malaria is ugly,
excruciatingly painful, and something I wouldn't wish on anyone. Your
red blood cells are essentially exploding inside your body, your body
temperature soars, the parasites riddle your body, finally reaching
the brain. Isn't it ironic that the last organ that the malaria
effects, is the one organ that you should use to prevent yourself from
getting the disease in the first place - your brain.

You say that "the idea of taking drugs doesn't sit too well" with you.
How well does an agonizing death sit with you? There is a good chance
that you will not contract malaria if you don't take any prophylaxis
at all, but are dilligent about using repellants, but if you get
bitten by a malarial mosquito, you will get malaria. By the time you
get back to Europe/USA you will develop simple, flu-like symptoms. A
vague headach, possibly sore throat, mild fever etc. Nothing too
serious, after all you've just returned from another country, you've
been cooped up in an airplane etc.You take sone form of natural
antibiotic, and you feel lousy for the day until the "flu" clears up.
Three or four days later, the "flu" reappears, a little worse this
time. No problemo - you take your natural antibiotics again and wait.
This time the flu doesn't clear up in one day, and by the third day
you feel very ill. Maybe you try some other homeopathic remedy. After
five days you realise that there is something seriously wrong. You go
to a doctor or hospital. They have no clue what is wrong with you,
because they don't know where to start looking. They after all, don't
have any experience with tropical diseases (even a nurses assistant in
rural Uganda can spot malaria). After two days of frantically trying
to figure out what's wrong with you, the hospital finally decides to
look in the liver. But by this stage, your liver is riddled with
parasites, you are experiencing retinal hemoraging (you bleed from
your eyeballs), you can't keep any food down, you are anaemic, you
have constant intolerable headaches that don't respond to pain
medication, your kindeys start to fail, your body is warkked by
painfull spasms.

By the time anyone knows what's wrong with you, you're dead. Simply
because you didn't use your brain (and some relatively harmless drugs)
in the first place.

You said "Has anyone heard of or experienced any other natural
medicine?" Malaria effects 100million people, and about 1% of those
(ABOUT 1 MILLION PEOPLE EVERY YEAR) will die from it. You can bet your
bottom dollar (they do) that every pharmaceutical company worldwide is
looking at the ultimate malaria prevention/cure. So far, they have
only come up with the chemical concoctions that you don't want to use.
Malaria has been with humans ever since humans and mosqitos
co-existed. Malaria is one of the longest known diseases, and through
millenia of trying herbal, natural, organic etc. remedies, NONE of
them have EVER worked, apart from quinine, and this only really worked
effectively and safely after it was chemically replicated in 1820.

I'm sorry if this sounds like a personal rant with you. It's not. It's
just that I get so mad when I hear of people who come to sub-Saharan
Africa with notions that they're visiting Disneyland's African
Adventureland. This is not Europe. This is not the USA.

One of the biggest favours you can do yourself is to get hold of a BBC
documentary called "Africa Village" in which a British couple and
their kids are sent to live with a typical family in Swaziland for
about 8 weeks. Forget about Survivor, Disneyland, King Solomon's
Mines, Indiana Jones, and The African Queen. That's what Africa is all
about.

I'll go take a cold shower now then...

Marc

On 25 Nov 2004 07:58:06 -0800, (Former Member)
wrote:

I'm planning to travel to Kenya, Tanzania, and Zanzibar Island this
xmas break on an educational tour. Myself and some of the people in
the group aren't comfortable getting shots/vaccinations and would feel
more comfortable taking the natural route. I myself am a vegetarian
and consume mostly organic foods. So the idea of taking drugs doesn't
sit too well with me.

Has anyone traveled to Africa without taking shots? Are you familiar
with any natural antibiotics and preventative medicines? The group
leader recommended Quinine to protect against malaria. Also, I've been
doing some reading on colloidal silver, a natural antibiotic (I
actually used it once and it works great but I didn't know that it was
good as a protectant against malaria). Has anyone heard of or
experienced any other natural medicine?

I hear that yellow fever immunizations may be required when traveling
to Kenya. Is this true?

On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 21:29:06 +0100, "Jean-Marc V. Liotier"
wrote:


Now on the subject of "natural" medicine : please don't fall for that
bull****.

Jean-Marc, you deserve a round of applause. I posted a long, probably
boring tirade about "natural" and homeopathic medicine, but could not
have put it as succinctly or as emphatically as you did in one line.

Regards,
Marc

In message , Marc Lurie
writes
On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 21:29:06 +0100, "Jean-Marc V. Liotier"
wrote:


Now on the subject of "natural" medicine : please don't fall for that
bull****.

Jean-Marc, you deserve a round of applause. I posted a long, probably
boring tirade about "natural" and homeopathic medicine, but could not
have put it as succinctly or as emphatically as you did in one line.

Regards,
Marc
Marc,
I found the statement you made about having never known anyone contract
malaria who had "diligently" taken their prophylactics, very
interesting! You can see in the thread "Proguanil and Chloroquine" the
comments I made about myself and my husband. During five years in
Nigeria and many more in Kenya, I have never had malaria. I was always
very diligent about taking the tablets and reminding my husband to take
his. In Nigeria he had to work away from home for two weeks now and
again and without the reminder he forgot to take the odd tablet with the
result that he was very ill indeed.
I have had conversations with permanent residents on the Kenya coast re
malaria and what they do to prevent it. Many said they go for "the
cure" and some took prophylactics during the rains when there were more
mosquitos around. It is a serious business and certainly people who go
to Africa as tourists are foolish if they don`t protect themselves
against malaria. As for "shots" advice should be sought on what is
required and the appropriate immunisation taken.
Pat
--
Pat Anderson

There's the point Pat. Take the drugs and you probably WON'T get
malaria. Take the homeopathic snake-oil and if you get bitten, you
probably WILL get malaria.

I have spoken with countless numbers of people who prefer to resort to
the cure (usually fansidar or quinine) only when the get the disease.
I guess that's a valid way to live IF, AND ONLY IF, you are aware of
the malaria danger, you know and recognise the symptoms, and you do
something IMMEDIATELY you think you have malaria.

I have a saying that's a bit harsh, but I told my friend this after
her brother died from the disease "Michael didn't die from malaria, he
died from ignorance and stupidity". It still makes me mad to think
that a bright, intelligent, 22-year old life, with so much potential
and future could be cut short by a completely preventable disease. If
he had listened to me, he'd still be alive.

I'll say it again... This is not Disneyland!!!

Regards,
Marc


On Fri, 26 Nov 2004 09:56:40 +0000, Pat Anderson
wrote:

In message , Marc Lurie
writes
On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 21:29:06 +0100, "Jean-Marc V. Liotier"
wrote:


Now on the subject of "natural" medicine : please don't fall for that
bull****.

Jean-Marc, you deserve a round of applause. I posted a long, probably
boring tirade about "natural" and homeopathic medicine, but could not
have put it as succinctly or as emphatically as you did in one line.

Regards,
Marc
Marc,
I found the statement you made about having never known anyone contract
malaria who had "diligently" taken their prophylactics, very
interesting! You can see in the thread "Proguanil and Chloroquine" the
comments I made about myself and my husband. During five years in
Nigeria and many more in Kenya, I have never had malaria. I was always
very diligent about taking the tablets and reminding my husband to take
his. In Nigeria he had to work away from home for two weeks now and
again and without the reminder he forgot to take the odd tablet with the
result that he was very ill indeed.
I have had conversations with permanent residents on the Kenya coast re
malaria and what they do to prevent it. Many said they go for "the
cure" and some took prophylactics during the rains when there were more
mosquitos around. It is a serious business and certainly people who go
to Africa as tourists are foolish if they don`t protect themselves
against malaria. As for "shots" advice should be sought on what is
required and the appropriate immunisation taken.
Pat

On 26 Nov 2004 04:04:26 -0800, (C. Josef)


First of all these are just anecdotal reports and therefore they have
to be treated with a bit of caution - especially when it comes to the
doubtful effectiveness of chloroquine + proguanil combination.
Sure, these are anecdotal, however, I'm pretty sure that good
scientific enquiry will confirm most of what I said.

However, this also brings us to a second point: Unfortunately many
people discontinue their prophylactic medication and therefore put
themselves at risk. There are many reasons why people discontinue
their medication. First of all we have the dosage scheme. It's quite
clear that people have problems with medications with a complex dosage
scheme; especially chloroquine + proguanil.
I agree. People can't even remember to take daily birth control pills,
let alone one pill a day, and another once a week for malaria. I'm
sorry, but Africa punishes the stupid and moronic.

One other important reason is the side-effect issue. It is obvious
that people will discontinue a badly tolerated drug more frequently
than a well tolerated drug. And that's yet another reason why doctors
should prefer well tolerated prophylactic medications such as
atovaquone-proguanil (Malarone) or doxycycline over badly tolerated
medications such as mefloquine (Lariam) or chloroquine+proguanil.
Once again, I agree completely. Personally I use doxy because it has
the least effect on me.

Personally I see absolutely no advantage of chloroquine+proguanil over
other drugs. Mefloquine might have the advantage of a weekly dosing
scheme, but the side-effect issue and the fact that it should be
started 2-3 weeks before departure and continued for 4 weeks after
return are strong relativizations. In yet another double-blinded
study, patients who took atovaquone-proguanil (Malarone) had fewer
adverse events that caused prophylaxis to be discontinued, compared to
patients who took mefloquine (Lariam):
Once again, I agree with you completely. If you're not going to
complete the dosing regime then you expose yourself to risk. Please
don't think that I was advocating chloroquine/proguanil over any other
regime, I was simply saying that, in my experience, you will probably
not get malaria if you use the conventional chemo/medical prophylaxis,
but if you mess about with homeopathic or "natural" substances, you
quite likely will.

Marc


http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...medid=14604928

No.. yellow fever shot is not required...nothing is required...it's your
own choice to have them

I traveled to Kenya last January...Don't worry about the
food...everything served was fresh and peeled...the food was very
delicious...I was impressed..as a vegetarian you will be in the right
place the food is great...just relax and enjoy yourself.....I did!

If you want to know what Africa is all about you should ask a "true"
African....I have talked to many "Kenyans" and they tell me how
wonderful and beautiful Kenya is and thier lives..the
people....warm..friendly..happy..their values..traditions..the African
way. they are happy people.if you go to Kenya you are going to a place
where people are true ..noone will say thank you or sorry unless they
really mean it....and they go for the heart..I could listen to their
charming stories all day..
That is how I found Kenya to be......
That is the place I love.....
from usa

Hi,

Marc Lurie wrote in message . ..

Sure, these are anecdotal, however, I'm pretty sure that good
scientific enquiry will confirm most of what I said.

Mmmmhhhh. To get a definete answer on the effectiveness of
chloroquine+proguanil you'd need a randomized trial with such a large
number of participants that it'd be financially unaffordable.

For that reason we have to rely on studies with a lower level of
evidence. To my best knowledge, in case of chloroquine+proguanil there
are basically three reasons why an increasing number of scientists
discourage patients from taking the combination:

1. Adverse reactions & low compliance (as previously discussed)

2. A relatively large number of patients who have caught malaria
despite of taking the drugs:
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5028a1.htm
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=12757688

3. A lack of propper evidence that proguanil really increases the
effectiveness of chloroquine. (Treatment studies and laboratory
examinations clearly show chloroquine resistance is very common in
subsaharan Africa. It's easy to perform such studies as the genetic
mutation responsible for chloroquine resistance is well known.)