Just returned from cruise - don't get it...

A 21 Jul 2004 17:47:05 GMT, ando
(RTCReferee) escribió:
I wouldn't be surprised if Wal-Mart started a cruise line, would you?
I'd like to think they'd fail...

....but they probably would clean up, eh?


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A 21 Jul 2004 17:47:05 GMT, ando
(RTCReferee) escribió:
I wouldn't be surprised if Wal-Mart started a cruise line, would you?
I'd like to think they'd fail...

....but they probably would clean up, eh?


--
bicker®
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A 21 Jul 2004 22:17:39 GMT, ando
(RTCReferee) escribió:
Charles lid wrote:
It seems that there are ships that are like what Ben desires but the
rub appears to be that they are in the luxury catagory. He wants them
in the mass market catagory. Not going to happen.
How about sort of midway between the two?
And I didn't get the impression that Ben was looking for mass market.

I get the impression that he was looking for a niche
offering at a mass-market price.

Charles is right: Not going to happen.


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A 21 Jul 2004 22:17:39 GMT, ando
(RTCReferee) escribió:
Charles lid wrote:
It seems that there are ships that are like what Ben desires but the
rub appears to be that they are in the luxury catagory. He wants them
in the mass market catagory. Not going to happen.
How about sort of midway between the two?
And I didn't get the impression that Ben was looking for mass market.

I get the impression that he was looking for a niche
offering at a mass-market price.

Charles is right: Not going to happen.


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bicker®
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A Thu, 22 Jul 2004 05:26:19 GMT, "StephenM"
escribió:
Can anyone identify the underlying (latent?) brand of each of the mid price
range lines.

I'll start: RCI - sporty.


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A Thu, 22 Jul 2004 05:26:19 GMT, "StephenM"
escribió:
Can anyone identify the underlying (latent?) brand of each of the mid price
range lines.

I'll start: RCI - sporty.


--
bicker®
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"*bicker*" wrote in message
. ..
A Thu, 22 Jul 2004 05:26:19 GMT, "StephenM"
escribió:
Can anyone identify the underlying (latent?) brand of each of the mid
price
range lines.

I'll start: RCI - sporty.

Well I can see that as the brand statement up on the white board in the RCI
head office. ;-)

On my two NCL cruises (never been on RCI), I found they excelled with their
fitness programs. Good gym, good aerobic/stretching/weight-aerobics, many
free sessions (some additional pay). I enjoyed it so much they gave me the
t-shirt for participation and I never do any of these sessions on any other
cruise line. (Oh, an beautiful gyms with magnificent sea views).

Anyone want to mark NCL as the fitness cruise line?

Stephen

"*bicker*" wrote in message
. ..
A Thu, 22 Jul 2004 05:26:19 GMT, "StephenM"
escribió:
Can anyone identify the underlying (latent?) brand of each of the mid
price
range lines.

I'll start: RCI - sporty.

Well I can see that as the brand statement up on the white board in the RCI
head office. ;-)

On my two NCL cruises (never been on RCI), I found they excelled with their
fitness programs. Good gym, good aerobic/stretching/weight-aerobics, many
free sessions (some additional pay). I enjoyed it so much they gave me the
t-shirt for participation and I never do any of these sessions on any other
cruise line. (Oh, an beautiful gyms with magnificent sea views).

Anyone want to mark NCL as the fitness cruise line?

Stephen

Ernie,

The reason I stress motivation for original products is that I think
that some of them come out of a person or group giving some essence of
something within themselves in the form of serving or sharing with the
public and creating a business. Their company starts with a certain
vision, style, and through the years the product retains much of its
original essence or it becomes dispersed. When new ownership takes over,
sometimes they feel the essence and operate in retaining the essence or
they go off into creating a version of the current, apparently effective
mode of operation while using the brand's dressing. This, ultimately,
will lead to a different type of customer attracted to the product than
who they attracted originally.

As you have been sailing for some time and many different brands you've
come to your current position. While a certain poster maintains that my
motives are for me and no one else, I'm not that invested in the
lifestyle of cruising. I'll go to small towns, jazz festivals, and small
cultural events to feed certain personal lifestyle needs. My comments
are in the interests of those that have sailed over the years, who
strongly value the cruise lifestyle, have come to a similar conclusion
you have, and may not be able to afford the higher-priced offerings. As
RTC Referee stated, something in the middle, at a higher price point but
not too high to prevent those that want this middle-ground product, is
not well represented in current cruise offerings.

But times are cyclical. None of us have crystal balls to say this what
will or will not happen. Companies and people have gone in many
directions and at times have come back to the core, to the original
essence of what they offered society. So, under a new climate and some
time in the future, if and when I do not know, it is a possibility that
the current economics of scale and making a mass market more of a mass
market, will run its course and some sort of more specialized product
boom may take place.

Ben S.



E.k.R. wrote:

Ben,
My partner and I have been discussing cruises and have pretty much come to a
conclusion. He really doesn't want to sail the mass-market lines anymore,
nor go to places like the Caribbean and Mexico again. I tend to agree for
the first time. After 50+ cruises I think I've outgrown them to an extent.
I still love the ships, but the onboard experience is no longer stimulating.
We are taking one last mass-market cruise on VOYAGER OF THE SEAS this
October. It has many days at sea and believe it or not I do greatly enjoy
this class of ship. At least I did when VOS was new, but maybe things have
changed?

After VOS, I think we cut our cruises to one longer cruise per year (and
maybe a short one) on a line like Silversea, Seabourn, RSSC, or even QM2.
Lately I've been taking 4-5 cruises a year (mostly to the same places like
the Caribbean) trying out the different brands. It's been fun and
interesting, but what I've discovered is they are all very much alike. The
onboard programming is basically the same, and the food and service are more
alike than different. So now instead of quantity, I think we are going to
concentrate on quality.

What makes this decision even easier is that I've already tried most of the
new ship designs that are cruising today with the premium and mass-market
lines. Also, there is nothing on the horizon that even peaks my interest
except maybe Ultra-Voyager ... and even then I'm not so sure since it's
basically the same design but larger.

It's interesting that this very discussion thread has certainly had an
influence on coming to this decision. I thought you might find it relevant
since it's in line with what we have been discussing.

Ernie

ps - an exception might be MSC if they prove to be something a little
different with a high degree of value.

Ernie,

The reason I stress motivation for original products is that I think
that some of them come out of a person or group giving some essence of
something within themselves in the form of serving or sharing with the
public and creating a business. Their company starts with a certain
vision, style, and through the years the product retains much of its
original essence or it becomes dispersed. When new ownership takes over,
sometimes they feel the essence and operate in retaining the essence or
they go off into creating a version of the current, apparently effective
mode of operation while using the brand's dressing. This, ultimately,
will lead to a different type of customer attracted to the product than
who they attracted originally.

As you have been sailing for some time and many different brands you've
come to your current position. While a certain poster maintains that my
motives are for me and no one else, I'm not that invested in the
lifestyle of cruising. I'll go to small towns, jazz festivals, and small
cultural events to feed certain personal lifestyle needs. My comments
are in the interests of those that have sailed over the years, who
strongly value the cruise lifestyle, have come to a similar conclusion
you have, and may not be able to afford the higher-priced offerings. As
RTC Referee stated, something in the middle, at a higher price point but
not too high to prevent those that want this middle-ground product, is
not well represented in current cruise offerings.

But times are cyclical. None of us have crystal balls to say this what
will or will not happen. Companies and people have gone in many
directions and at times have come back to the core, to the original
essence of what they offered society. So, under a new climate and some
time in the future, if and when I do not know, it is a possibility that
the current economics of scale and making a mass market more of a mass
market, will run its course and some sort of more specialized product
boom may take place.

Ben S.



E.k.R. wrote:

Ben,
My partner and I have been discussing cruises and have pretty much come to a
conclusion. He really doesn't want to sail the mass-market lines anymore,
nor go to places like the Caribbean and Mexico again. I tend to agree for
the first time. After 50+ cruises I think I've outgrown them to an extent.
I still love the ships, but the onboard experience is no longer stimulating.
We are taking one last mass-market cruise on VOYAGER OF THE SEAS this
October. It has many days at sea and believe it or not I do greatly enjoy
this class of ship. At least I did when VOS was new, but maybe things have
changed?

After VOS, I think we cut our cruises to one longer cruise per year (and
maybe a short one) on a line like Silversea, Seabourn, RSSC, or even QM2.
Lately I've been taking 4-5 cruises a year (mostly to the same places like
the Caribbean) trying out the different brands. It's been fun and
interesting, but what I've discovered is they are all very much alike. The
onboard programming is basically the same, and the food and service are more
alike than different. So now instead of quantity, I think we are going to
concentrate on quality.

What makes this decision even easier is that I've already tried most of the
new ship designs that are cruising today with the premium and mass-market
lines. Also, there is nothing on the horizon that even peaks my interest
except maybe Ultra-Voyager ... and even then I'm not so sure since it's
basically the same design but larger.

It's interesting that this very discussion thread has certainly had an
influence on coming to this decision. I thought you might find it relevant
since it's in line with what we have been discussing.

Ernie

ps - an exception might be MSC if they prove to be something a little
different with a high degree of value.