Air America breaking news: "USA to fingerprint ALL visitors !!!"

YUP! But remember that the Canadian border control system works too. Our laws are
different that USA border control laws, but we do keep terrorists out - convicted
ones that is. We also adhere to the premise that folks are innocent until proven
quilty - except for thoe where there is suspicion. This past week there was a SWAT
team raid on a home in our national capital region (Ottawa) and a Canadian citizen
was arrested and is held in detention with charges against him. Something to do
with those arrested in the UK on terrorism and bomb making charges.

No border is immune, but to think that Canada is a pipeline for terrorist entry
into the USA is baloney.! Besides, the US border control types are pretty
vigilant too, and I have thanked them for the questioning of me and my family when
we enter the USA.

The problem, as I see it, is if someone comes in with several counterfeit
passports..... and then enters the USA from Canada with a Canadian passport. No
fingerprinting would flag the person entering the USA as a terrorist - unless the
fingerprints were in some USA accessable data base.

The USA requirement for my fingerprints will not be of any value to the licensing
agency requiring them because I have absolutely NO history in the USA. I do in
Canada, but my history is clean - it is there in the database, but clean. The US
agency does NOT access the Canadian CPIC system or any other Canadian data base -
so what is the point of their exercise?

Hence, I wonder what is the point of the USA fingerprinting aliens entering the
USA? Perhaps it is to salve some troubled intellect(s).

Ken
Winnipeg, Canada

Phil Richards wrote:

So presumably the easiest way to get in to the US without these stupid
fingerprint and photograph checks is to say fly in to Canada and cross
over the border by road....

"Ken Pisichko" wrote in message
...
YUP! But remember that the Canadian border control system works too. Our
laws are
different that USA border control laws, but we do keep terrorists out -
convicted
ones that is. We also adhere to the premise that folks are innocent until
proven
quilty - except for thoe where there is suspicion. This past week there
was a SWAT
team raid on a home in our national capital region (Ottawa) and a Canadian
citizen
was arrested and is held in detention with charges against him. Something
to do
with those arrested in the UK on terrorism and bomb making charges.

No border is immune, but to think that Canada is a pipeline for terrorist
entry
into the USA is baloney.! Besides, the US border control types are
pretty
vigilant too, and I have thanked them for the questioning of me and my
family when
we enter the USA.

The problem, as I see it, is if someone comes in with several counterfeit
passports..... and then enters the USA from Canada with a Canadian
passport. No
fingerprinting would flag the person entering the USA as a terrorist -
unless the
fingerprints were in some USA accessable data base.

The USA requirement for my fingerprints will not be of any value to the
licensing
agency requiring them because I have absolutely NO history in the USA. I
do in
Canada, but my history is clean - it is there in the database, but clean.
The US
agency does NOT access the Canadian CPIC system or any other Canadian data
base -
so what is the point of their exercise?

Hence, I wonder what is the point of the USA fingerprinting aliens
entering the
USA? Perhaps it is to salve some troubled intellect(s).

Ken
Winnipeg, Canada

Phil Richards wrote:

So presumably the easiest way to get in to the US without these stupid
fingerprint and photograph checks is to say fly in to Canada and cross
over the border by road....

Phil,

The Border has been tightened quite a bit in the past few months. You would
probably have to cross an a remote, unguarded gully to be safe if you were
going to do harm. If not wishing to do harm then the normal crossing would
be the easiest.


Don

Chad Irby wrote:
The Canadian Auditor General disagrees with you... as of about six days
ago.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4632219/

Sound bytes taken from articles which quoted sound bytes.

If they had quoted the complete auditor general statement, you would have seen
that she began by stating that overall, Canada was doing a very good job to
combat terrorism/increase security. But her role is to find the faults and in
her report she did point to a list of things that need to be fixed. (included
was the need for greater screening of airport employees BTW).

If only the USA had a similar process to point out the faults in the USA's
attempt to combat terrorism. But then again, the Bush regime would be
overwhelmed by such a report pointing to the few things done right instead of
the so many things done wrong.

In article , Ken Pisichko
wrote:

YUP! But remember that the Canadian border control system works too.
Our laws are different that USA border control laws, but we do keep
terrorists out - convicted ones that is. We also adhere to the
premise that folks are innocent until proven quilty - except for thoe
where there is suspicion. This past week there was a SWAT team raid
on a home in our national capital region (Ottawa) and a Canadian
citizen was arrested and is held in detention with charges against
him. Something to do with those arrested in the UK on terrorism and
bomb making charges.

No border is immune, but to think that Canada is a pipeline for
terrorist entry into the USA is baloney.! Besides, the US border
control types are pretty vigilant too, and I have thanked them for
the questioning of me and my family when we enter the USA.

The Canadian Auditor General disagrees with you... as of about six days
ago.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4632219/

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

Chad Irby wrote:
And statements like "Watch lists used to screen visa applicants, refugee
claimants and travelers seeking to enter Canada are in disarray because
of inaccuracies and shoddy updating, Fraser found" do not exactly
reinforce your views that Canada is doing a bang-up job.

Her role is to find flaws. No system is perfect. But you can bet that this
items are being worked on. And while it is true that there is a problem
between the passport office and customs people (to have live access to
cancelled/stolen passport lists), the auditor general did mention that getting
the synchronisation going was a technical challenge and that it can't be done overnight.

The auditor general's report is more a list of things remaining to be done as
opposed to a list of flaws. You need to look at it on a yearly basis to see
the type of progress being made.


I bet that if she were to audit the US systems, it would look far worse and
with far worse problems (for instance, private jetblue data making it to some
conference presentation by a consulting firm).

In article , nobody
wrote:

Chad Irby wrote:
The Canadian Auditor General disagrees with you... as of about six days
ago.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4632219/

Sound bytes taken from articles which quoted sound bytes.

If they had quoted the complete auditor general statement, you would have seen
that she began by stating that overall, Canada was doing a very good job to
combat terrorism/increase security.

Of course she'd say that. But the qualifications she mentioned make it
quite plain that Canada is *not* doing that much to control their own
borders.

And statements like "Watch lists used to screen visa applicants, refugee
claimants and travelers seeking to enter Canada are in disarray because
of inaccuracies and shoddy updating, Fraser found" do not exactly
reinforce your views that Canada is doing a bang-up job.

But her role is to find the faults and in her report she did point to
a list of things that need to be fixed. (included was the need for
greater screening of airport employees BTW).

....and reporting of stolen passports, and better coordination between
agencies, and other things.

If only the USA had a similar process to point out the faults in the USA's
attempt to combat terrorism. But then again, the Bush regime

You know, use of phrases like "Bush regime" sorta gives away that bias,
there.

would be overwhelmed by such a report pointing to the few things done
right instead of the so many things done wrong.

You need to read more US newspapers. Your pint of view is *not* borne
out in anything like what's happening here.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

"nobody" wrote in message
...
If they had quoted the complete auditor general statement, you would have
seen
that she began by stating that overall, Canada was doing a very good job
to
combat terrorism/increase security. But her role is to find the faults and
in
her report she did point to a list of things that need to be fixed.
(included
was the need for greater screening of airport employees BTW).
If only the USA had a similar process to point out the faults in the USA's
attempt to combat terrorism. But then again, the Bush regime would be
overwhelmed by such a report pointing to the few things done right instead
of
the so many things done wrong.

Talking about Canada: For sure there must be other ways to enter the USA
than through an official airport or seaport border crossing... Even I have
done it, on the way from Canada. I mean isn't it possible to simply walk
across? Just look at the present situation at the Mexican border... it
shouldn't be too hard for a selfdetermined soldier of god, to get through,
by land or by sea.

As far as preventing plane attacks is concerned: how does the US believe
it's gonna stop a major attack originating from say, Vancouver, Montreal,
Windsor, Tijuana or Monterrey ??

In article , nobody
wrote:

Chad Irby wrote:
And statements like "Watch lists used to screen visa applicants, refugee
claimants and travelers seeking to enter Canada are in disarray because
of inaccuracies and shoddy updating, Fraser found" do not exactly
reinforce your views that Canada is doing a bang-up job.

Her role is to find flaws.

....and she found some pretty huge ones, no matter how you try to
minimize it.

No system is perfect. But you can bet that this
items are being worked on.

Funny, a couple of posts back, you assured us that the Canadian system
wasn't in need of such work...

I bet that if she were to audit the US systems, it would look far
worse and with far worse problems (for instance, private jetblue data
making it to some conference presentation by a consulting firm).

So one error (someone using information they collected in an incorrect
manner) is worse than systemic problems (the various ones shown by a
Canadian audit, that showed terrorists have a lot of gaps they could
exploit, like terrible and incomplete records on stolen Canadian
passports)?

And, once again, the question here isn't the theoretical flaws in the US
system - it's that you were claiming that the Canadian security system
was so good no terrorists could get through (which the Canadian audit
showed to be *very* false).

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

Chad Irby wrote:

And, once again, the question here isn't the theoretical flaws in the US
system - it's that you were claiming that the Canadian security system
was so good no terrorists could get through (which the Canadian audit
showed to be *very* false).



Okay, let's move away from the theoretical to the factual:

"Delays in the government's project to merge
the separate fingerprint systems used by the
FBI and immigration officials has left U.S.
borders vulnerable to criminals and terrorists,
the Justice Department believes."

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/...int/index.html

Looking through the Frasier report on UK and Canadian news sites
as well as the MSNBC reference, it was a) good news: Canada's is
as good as anybody else's but b) bad news: it's awful. (-;

The thing is, of the Portland Seven and Buffalo Eight terror cases,
all but one (Mike Hawash, ex-Intel graphics software engineer
and suburban Portland soccer dad his first decade as US citizen)
were born in the US. Unless everybody is screened, combined
with some sort of MI5-style domestic intelligence, the US will
remain vulnerable to Bin Laden's American legions even if not
one non-US citizen/permanent resident were allowed in.

gld