A Travel and vacations forum. TravelBanter

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » TravelBanter forum » Travel Regions » USA & Canada
Site Map Home Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Breaking News!!



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old March 16th, 2004, 03:09 AM
Vendicar Decarian
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Breaking News!!


"Joey Jolley" wrote in message
om...
We're talking about an ecologically sustainable future. That's
what we're talking about.


What else is required for an ecologically sustainable future?


  #12  
Old March 16th, 2004, 06:14 PM
Joey Jolley
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Breaking News!!

"Vendicar Decarian" wrote in message ...
"Joey Jolley" wrote in message
om...
We're talking about an ecologically sustainable future. That's
what we're talking about.


What else is required for an ecologically sustainable future?



1. Alternative Energy-Wind, solar, tidal power. Biomass and
hydrogen also on the drawing board.
2. Green Buildings and homes
3. Pristine lands and open space
4. Mixed-use developments (retail on the ground floor,
offices/condos/apartments on top)
5. Smart Growth/New Urbanism neighborhoods-neighborhoods that
have everything within walking distance of where we live
6. Places for wildlife
7. Downtown areas where residences, shopping, restaurants, etc.
are all located in one spot
8. Dense cities and towns. If possible, overhauling our cities
and towns so they're smaller and about the size they were before World
War II
9. Alternative transportation. Get around by bicycle, foot, or
mass transit. No cars. Gradually dismantle the road network.
10. Have car-free cities. Turn the streets of a city like San
Francisco, New York, or Seattle into pedestrian malls. Or build new
car-free cities.
11. Set up high-speed trains that connect cities and intercity
trains to help people get around cities. Guidewire trollies could also
do the trick.
12. Design aircraft that runs on solar power and build smaller
airports. Design aircraft that can take off vertically rather than
horizontally.
13. Keep businesses locally/employee-owned and smaller and don't
have big corporations.
14. Live simply instead of frugally or materially. Switch money
to non paper-based currency such as credits. Own less.
15. Put vegetation or rooftop gardens on top of buildings so
people can grow their own food. Also have community gardens and
community farms.
16. Make television interactive. Send all movies to DVD or online
viewing areas rather than theatres.
17. Make all weapons laser-based or non-lethal stun weapons.
Outlaw projectile weapons.
18. Clean oceans. No pollution or fishing. Allow kelp farming
such as what they're doing in Arcata, California
19. Overhaul the United States by turning by abolishing the fifty
states and combing them into regional subdivisions. Move the US
Capital from Washington to San Francisco and change to female
leadership. Shrink the government and give internal subdivisions
20. A space program using sustainable space vehicles and move
some of the population to orbital space stations, space colonies,
colonies on the Moon and other planets such as Mars, with an eventual
move to the stars. This will help lower the population on Earth. The
population on the Moon and other planets use the resources of these
places sustainably.
21. Contact sports are banned because they promote violence and
aggression. Keep sports such as baseball and soccer. Americans deal
with aggression by holding ritual war games.
22. A more liberated American population with a twenty-hour work
week, hippie-style romance, etc.
23. Communal living arrangements but keep them voluntary. Keep
non-communal arrangements for those who want them.
24. A love for trees and animals are left alone and treated as
sentient creatures
25. Nature-based and New Age religion
26. Same clothing styles and fashions as today, but clothes are
hand-woven and made out of plant material
27. Integrate technology with daily life
28. Communications are done via videophones and over
Internet-based and satellite-based communications systems
29. Where land is scarce or is environmentally sensitive, build
some facilties Korean-style. Underground.

There's more where those ideas came from.
  #13  
Old March 16th, 2004, 06:25 PM
David Nebenzahl
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Breaking News!!

On 3/16/2004 9:14 AM Joey Jolley spake thus:

"Vendicar Decarian" wrote in message ...
"Joey Jolley" wrote in message
om...


We're talking about an ecologically sustainable future. That's
what we're talking about.


What else is required for an ecologically sustainable future?


1. Alternative Energy-Wind, solar, tidal power. Biomass and
hydrogen also on the drawing board.
2. Green Buildings and homes
3. Pristine lands and open space
4. Mixed-use developments (retail on the ground floor,
offices/condos/apartments on top)
5. Smart Growth/New Urbanism neighborhoods-neighborhoods that
have everything within walking distance of where we live
6. Places for wildlife
7. Downtown areas where residences, shopping, restaurants, etc.
are all located in one spot
8. Dense cities and towns. If possible, overhauling our cities
and towns so they're smaller and about the size they were before World
War II
9. Alternative transportation. Get around by bicycle, foot, or
mass transit. No cars. Gradually dismantle the road network.


[snip]

Nice ideas. I fully endorse many of these ideas.

I also know that most of them will never happen. So let's get real.


--
The Bush administration should restrain itself from its imperial arrogance
that has so alienated countries around the world. Their contempt for the
United Nations in the dash to war with Iraq; their support of the coup in
Venezuela in April 2002, and the continuing hostility toward President
Chavez; the pressure on nations of the world to exempt the US from the
International Criminal Court, now joined by their contemptuous attitude
toward President Aristide must be halted. It is time for the people of the
USA to make this point clear even if the administration continues to walk
around with wax in its collective ears, with eyes closed, and ranting about
its version of the world as defined by Bush.

- Excerpt from TransAfrica statement on the situation in Haiti, 2/17/04
(http://www.transafricaforum.org/)

  #14  
Old March 17th, 2004, 07:01 AM
Joey Jolley
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Breaking News!!

David Nebenzahl wrote in message ...
On 3/16/2004 9:14 AM Joey Jolley spake thus:

"Vendicar Decarian" wrote in message ...
"Joey Jolley" wrote in message
om...


We're talking about an ecologically sustainable future. That's
what we're talking about.

What else is required for an ecologically sustainable future?


1. Alternative Energy-Wind, solar, tidal power. Biomass and
hydrogen also on the drawing board.
2. Green Buildings and homes
3. Pristine lands and open space
4. Mixed-use developments (retail on the ground floor,
offices/condos/apartments on top)
5. Smart Growth/New Urbanism neighborhoods-neighborhoods that
have everything within walking distance of where we live
6. Places for wildlife
7. Downtown areas where residences, shopping, restaurants, etc.
are all located in one spot
8. Dense cities and towns. If possible, overhauling our cities
and towns so they're smaller and about the size they were before World
War II
9. Alternative transportation. Get around by bicycle, foot, or
mass transit. No cars. Gradually dismantle the road network.


[snip]

Nice ideas. I fully endorse many of these ideas.

I also know that most of them will never happen. So let's get real.


Which ones won't happen and if you read "Ecotopia" by Ernest
Callenbach, you'll get the picture. Also Berkeley is going car-free
from what I understand.


--
The Bush administration should restrain itself from its imperial arrogance
that has so alienated countries around the world. Their contempt for the
United Nations in the dash to war with Iraq; their support of the coup in
Venezuela in April 2002, and the continuing hostility toward President
Chavez; the pressure on nations of the world to exempt the US from the
International Criminal Court, now joined by their contemptuous attitude
toward President Aristide must be halted. It is time for the people of the
USA to make this point clear even if the administration continues to walk
around with wax in its collective ears, with eyes closed, and ranting about
its version of the world as defined by Bush.

- Excerpt from TransAfrica statement on the situation in Haiti, 2/17/04
(http://www.transafricaforum.org/)

  #15  
Old March 17th, 2004, 07:21 AM
Miguel Cruz
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Breaking News!!

Joey Jolley wrote:
1. Alternative Energy-Wind, solar, tidal power. Biomass and
hydrogen also on the drawing board.
2. Green Buildings and homes
3. Pristine lands and open space
4. Mixed-use developments (retail on the ground floor,
offices/condos/apartments on top)
5. Smart Growth/New Urbanism neighborhoods-neighborhoods that
have everything within walking distance of where we live
6. Places for wildlife
7. Downtown areas where residences, shopping, restaurants, etc.
are all located in one spot
8. Dense cities and towns. If possible, overhauling our cities
and towns so they're smaller and about the size they were before World
War II
9. Alternative transportation. Get around by bicycle, foot, or
mass transit. No cars. Gradually dismantle the road network.
10. Have car-free cities. Turn the streets of a city like San
Francisco, New York, or Seattle into pedestrian malls. Or build new
car-free cities.


and then on to...

19. Overhaul the United States by turning by abolishing the fifty
states and combing them into regional subdivisions. Move the US
Capital from Washington to San Francisco and change to female
leadership. Shrink the government and give internal subdivisions
21. Contact sports are banned because they promote violence and
aggression. Keep sports such as baseball and soccer. Americans deal
with aggression by holding ritual war games.
22. A more liberated American population with a twenty-hour work
week, hippie-style romance, etc.
23. Communal living arrangements but keep them voluntary. Keep
non-communal arrangements for those who want them.
24. A love for trees and animals are left alone and treated as
sentient creatures
25. Nature-based and New Age religion


This is how you can tell our troll is a pro-car propagandist. He starts out
with sensible ideas that he is opposed to, and then attempts to tar them by
association with off-the-wall lunacy.

miguel
--
Hundreds of travel photos from around the world: http://travel.u.nu/
  #16  
Old March 17th, 2004, 07:35 AM
David Nebenzahl
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Breaking News!!

On 3/16/2004 10:01 PM Joey Jolley spake thus:

David Nebenzahl wrote in message ...
On 3/16/2004 9:14 AM Joey Jolley spake thus:

"Vendicar Decarian" wrote in message ...
"Joey Jolley" wrote in message
om...


We're talking about an ecologically sustainable future. That's
what we're talking about.

What else is required for an ecologically sustainable future?

1. Alternative Energy-Wind, solar, tidal power. Biomass and
hydrogen also on the drawing board.
2. Green Buildings and homes
3. Pristine lands and open space
4. Mixed-use developments (retail on the ground floor,
offices/condos/apartments on top)
5. Smart Growth/New Urbanism neighborhoods-neighborhoods that
have everything within walking distance of where we live
6. Places for wildlife
7. Downtown areas where residences, shopping, restaurants, etc.
are all located in one spot
8. Dense cities and towns. If possible, overhauling our cities
and towns so they're smaller and about the size they were before World
War II
9. Alternative transportation. Get around by bicycle, foot, or
mass transit. No cars. Gradually dismantle the road network.


[snip]

Nice ideas. I fully endorse many of these ideas.

I also know that most of them will never happen. So let's get real.


Which ones won't happen and if you read "Ecotopia" by Ernest
Callenbach, you'll get the picture. Also Berkeley is going car-free
from what I understand.


Bull****! Absolute ****ing HORSE****!

Look, pal: I work near the corner of Telegraph and Ashby, a major Berkeley
intersection, and I'm lucky to get through this intersection twice each day
without getting creamed by the tons of traffic speeding through it. I hear
horns honking all day. So, no, you understand completely incorrectly: neither
Berkeley, nor any significant part of Berkeley, is going car-free. (Well, with
the possible exception of parts of the UC campus which are off-limits to cars.
But that's it.)


--
The Bush administration should restrain itself from its imperial arrogance
that has so alienated countries around the world. Their contempt for the
United Nations in the dash to war with Iraq; their support of the coup in
Venezuela in April 2002, and the continuing hostility toward President
Chavez; the pressure on nations of the world to exempt the US from the
International Criminal Court, now joined by their contemptuous attitude
toward President Aristide must be halted. It is time for the people of the
USA to make this point clear even if the administration continues to walk
around with wax in its collective ears, with eyes closed, and ranting about
its version of the world as defined by Bush.

- Excerpt from TransAfrica statement on the situation in Haiti, 2/17/04
(http://www.transafricaforum.org/)

  #17  
Old March 17th, 2004, 04:37 PM
Jack May
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Breaking News!!


"Joey Jolley" wrote in message
om...
What else is required for an ecologically sustainable future?

1. Alternative Energy-Wind, solar, tidal power. Biomass and
hydrogen also on the drawing board.
2. Green Buildings and homes
3. Pristine lands and open space
4. Mixed-use developments (retail on the ground floor,
offices/condos/apartments on top)
5. Smart Growth/New Urbanism neighborhoods-neighborhoods that
have everything within walking distance of where we live
6. Places for wildlife
7. Downtown areas where residences, shopping, restaurants, etc.
are all located in one spot
8. Dense cities and towns. If possible, overhauling our cities
and towns so they're smaller and about the size they were before World
War II
9. Alternative transportation. Get around by bicycle, foot, or
mass transit. No cars. Gradually dismantle the road network.


[snip]

Nice ideas. I fully endorse many of these ideas.

I also know that most of them will never happen. So let's get real.


Which ones won't happen and if you read "Ecotopia" by Ernest
Callenbach, you'll get the picture. Also Berkeley is going car-free
from what I understand.


From records taken in England that were recently analyzed for pollution
levels, we are living in the lowest pollution time since record were first
taken in the 16th century. We are certainly living longer than any time in
the past.

Your list is a plan for moving back to a time of the worst pollution in
recorded history, much shorter life time, much worse health from pollution,
and a miserable inhuman existence. You want to kill a lot of people.

"Car-free" is a cliché of people that are not smart enough to invent a
continually improving society. They then build a dream world about a past
they don't understand and create a fantasy where everyone living back then
was in a paradise on earth. Of course we have much history from those
times that says compared to today it was hell on earth.

There is a show on the Travel Channel where people from the US go live with
a family in a "simple" living off the earth society that many people think
is a paradise compared to our present life style. Most of these people are
in shock of how hard and miserable living that life is when they actually do
it. They soon want to go home= but they are trapped by a contract to finish
the TV episode.

So all we have from you is a desire is to follow another murderous barbarian
that wants to return to the "ideal" past and destroy everything that the
sophisticated, educated parts of the world has worked so hard to improve.


  #18  
Old March 17th, 2004, 09:08 PM
Dustin Lambert
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Breaking News!!

(Miguel Cruz) wrote in message . ..
Joey Jolley wrote:
1. Alternative Energy-Wind, solar, tidal power. Biomass and
hydrogen also on the drawing board.
2. Green Buildings and homes
3. Pristine lands and open space
4. Mixed-use developments (retail on the ground floor,
offices/condos/apartments on top)
5. Smart Growth/New Urbanism neighborhoods-neighborhoods that
have everything within walking distance of where we live
6. Places for wildlife
7. Downtown areas where residences, shopping, restaurants, etc.
are all located in one spot
8. Dense cities and towns. If possible, overhauling our cities
and towns so they're smaller and about the size they were before World
War II
9. Alternative transportation. Get around by bicycle, foot, or
mass transit. No cars. Gradually dismantle the road network.
10. Have car-free cities. Turn the streets of a city like San
Francisco, New York, or Seattle into pedestrian malls. Or build new
car-free cities.


and then on to...

19. Overhaul the United States by turning by abolishing the fifty
states and combing them into regional subdivisions. Move the US
Capital from Washington to San Francisco and change to female
leadership. Shrink the government and give internal subdivisions
21. Contact sports are banned because they promote violence and
aggression. Keep sports such as baseball and soccer. Americans deal
with aggression by holding ritual war games.
22. A more liberated American population with a twenty-hour work
week, hippie-style romance, etc.
23. Communal living arrangements but keep them voluntary. Keep
non-communal arrangements for those who want them.
24. A love for trees and animals are left alone and treated as
sentient creatures
25. Nature-based and New Age religion


This is how you can tell our troll is a pro-car propagandist. He starts out
with sensible ideas that he is opposed to, and then attempts to tar them by
association with off-the-wall lunacy.

miguel


Read "Ecotopia" by Ernest Callenbach.
  #19  
Old March 17th, 2004, 09:10 PM
me
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Breaking News!!

(Joey Jolley) wrote in message . com...
David Nebenzahl wrote in message

[snip]
Nice ideas. I fully endorse many of these ideas.

I also know that most of them will never happen. So let's get real.


Which ones won't happen

[snip]


Of the top of my head:

1. Not anywhere near total energy production capacity demands.
Personal guess would be about 20% tops, but even double
or triple that would leave a significant portion coming from
fossile fuels.

2. Already exists, only a matter of degree. Probably will
never achieve the kind of performance needed to significantly
impact the larger problem.

3. Already exists.

4. Already exists.

5. Already exists, doesn't attract nearly the majority of residents
needed to have a significant overall impact. Tends to result in
extremely high property prices.

6. Already exists.

7. Already exists. They are regularly abandoned by their inhabitants
and go through regentrification cycles.

8. Unsustainable. That's why the ones that existed disappeared.
People try to rebuild them to varying degrees of success. Ultimately,
not a universal solution to any particular problem.

9. Already exist. People don't use them. Individualized transportation
has existed virtually since they rode the first horse. Cars didn't
replace buses, street cars, subways, or taxis. They all existed
before cars. They all still exist. Folks want private vehicles.
They will pay to organize their infrastructure around it whether
it is hitchin' posts and horse troughs or parking garages and
gas stations.

10. See #9. Folks want individualized transportation, and access
of it to the places they want to visit. Even in very large towns
where private ownership of vehicles is less common, taxis and limos
do quite well and folks want them to get VERY close to their
destinations.

11. They exist. They are expensive, and slow to respond to
changing demographics. They tend to require very high population
densities. The kind which tend to cause folks to move to lower
densities.

12. Solar power is extremely low density and aircraft that are
directly powered by it are impracticable. It would take potentially
physically impossible efficiency levels to convert the sunlight
on the crafts to keep them airborne, and clouds and darkness
would ground them. VTOL is extremely inefficient mode of flight
and is incompatible with solar power demands of efficiency.

13. Define "big". Large corporations have efficeincies of scale
which are advantageous to research and development.

14. Major decrease in standards of living involved. Any significant
movement in this direction would result in huge decreases in employment
and truly economic disaster in the transition.

15. Been there, done that. The economics don't work out. It makes
more sense to do what I do well, get a check, and pay the guy that
grows food well to do that for a check. (Economies of scale and all)

16. Happening. Not sure why it matters to you, but it is happening.
Live theater and community viewing will still exist however.

17. Kinda neat. Not sure why you care one way or another. If
you're dead, does it matter if you're full of lead or your
brain fried?

18. Definition of "clean" will be your problem. Copper, steel,
and other relatively naturally occuring materials will get concentrated
in the oceans. It's just the way the system works.

19. Um.. Gosh, don't even know where to start on this one. How's 'bout
the fact that it wants to enshrine gender discrimination.

20. Calculate the amount of material you're planning on moving
(heck, just the body mass of the people alone) to make any
significant dent in the worlds population. Now calculate the
energy required to launch all that mass into high orbits or
the moon. Now, where does the energy come from? (Hint, it's
a REALLY big number).

21. Self contradictory. Sports do cause aggression, they come
from it. "War games" would be as violent as the games they
replace.

22. Less work, less money, less consumerism, less work, less money.....

(still trying to figure out when you stopped being anywhere near
serious).

23. Already exists.

24. Trees? Sentient? We're gonna live a lie?

25. Religion by any other name is just a violent.

26. Which "today"? They constantly change. Insisting on only
"natural" fibers will put a heavy demand upon sheep farming. Weren't
we treating them as "sentient" beings? Does this mean we need their
permission to cut off their fur?

27. Done.

28. Done.

29. Why build there at all?
  #20  
Old March 17th, 2004, 09:59 PM
Dustin Lambert
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Breaking News!!

The San Francisco Bay Area will be car-free within the next five to
ten years starting with Berkeley, Oakland, and San Francisco.
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Air America breaking news: "USA to fingerprint ALL visitors !!!" nobody Air travel 0 April 3rd, 2004 07:19 AM
Air America breaking news: "USA to fingerprint ALL visitors !!!" nobody Europe 0 April 3rd, 2004 07:19 AM
Cheap air travel within europe Joe Europe 46 February 22nd, 2004 10:04 PM
Breaking News!! Steve Austin Europe 11 February 22nd, 2004 09:59 AM
Breaking News!! Steve Austin USA & Canada 12 February 22nd, 2004 09:59 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:01 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 TravelBanter.
The comments are property of their posters.