Bilingual in Europe versus USA

On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 10:51:21 +0100, "Ian F."
wrote:

"Dave Frightens Me" wrote in
message

Come on, American is English! It's the same language with a few
different nouns, and a different accent!

And some appalling verbs, like "gotten".

Forget/forgot/forgotten ?


Keith, Bristol, UK

Email: usenet[dot]20[dot]keefy[at]spamgourmet[dot]com

This is a sp*mtrap, but I will get your mail!

In Canada, if a job posting calls for applicants to be bilingual,
it means French and English.

You mean Quebecoise and English.

You mean Québecois and American.

A better description would be Québecois and North American,
as Canadians and Americans speak almost the exact same language.
And if we are going that far, then we need to acknowledge that
Australians speak yet another dialect, so there are at least three
major dialects of English: UK, NA, Aussie/NZ.

Come on, American is English! It's the same language with a few
different nouns, and a different accent!

And some appalling verbs, like "gotten". And leaving out prepositions,
as in "A couple Eurostar questions".

But the ever-present use of bizarre British slang is acceptable, right?

You are confusing two issues, language and ignorance. The OP is
correct, American English is not that different from UK English.
However, our educational system is a farce and most students
graduate with a functionally illiterate level of English. Being "cool"
has become the top priority in our society, and speaking proper
English is not included in the cool factor.

On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 10:56:25 +0200, Dave Frightens Me
wrote:

On 24 Aug 2006 14:56:02 -0700, "Iceman" wrote:

You have to be totally fluent in Chinese before it is any commercial
use - but people who are fluent and who have law, business, IT, etc.
skills are in huge demand.

I have spent quite some time in Hong Kong, and never needed it, except
for talking to someone poorly educated, like a taxi driver or
waitress.

Hong Kong's official language was English until recently, and its de
facto spoken language was Cantonese. When I used to go there, it was
much easier to find someone who spoke English than Mandarin Chinese.
Your average taxi driver almost surely spoke Cantonese. Now that Hong
Kong has reverted to Chinese rule, I imagine that Mandarin is being
seriously taught beginning in elementary school.


--
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup

On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 12:15:10 +0200, Giovanni Drogo
wrote:

On Fri, 25 Aug 2006, Dave Frightens Me wrote:

Especially if you already know another romance language. I can read
Portuguese, and usually pick up the gist of what they are saying.

- I can read portuguese and other languages (catalan, or italian
dialects) with decent understanding ...

... BUT I had the definite impression that spoken portuguese
(in Portugal) was almost not understandable, not because of
the speed, but because so many sounds were altered or perturbed
with respect to the written form

I agree with regard to the spoken language.
--
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup

On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 08:47:45 GMT, "a.spencer3"
wrote:

Surely, the tonal elements of Chinese add an additional complexity on top of
normal language learning?

I took some private lessons in Chinese during the time I was going to
China regularly for work. I didn't find the tones to be as much of a
barrier as I had expected. It's not terribly difficult to distinguish
one from another when someone is speaking, especially if they speak
slowly and carefully, as people normally do for a foreigner. Besides,
the context helps you in most cases.

Also learning to pronounce them is not terribly difficult. English has
tones as well, used to distinguish between a statement and a question,
for instance. It's no more difficult than that.
--
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup

On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 10:51:21 +0100, "Ian F."
wrote:

"Dave Frightens Me" wrote in
message

Come on, American is English! It's the same language with a few
different nouns, and a different accent!

And some appalling verbs, like "gotten". And leaving out prepositions, as
in "A couple Eurostar questions".

"Gotten" was the original form in English, which has persisted longer
in the US than in the UK, although it's also slowly vanishing in the
US. Look at the OED if you don't believe me.

Dropping prepositions is not standard English in the US. I'm sure
there are plenty of people in the UK who also speak nonstandard
English.
--
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup

"Dave Smith" wrote in message
...
Sarah Banick wrote:

Wow, what terrible school system did you go through? My public high
school
offered Spanish, French, German, and Latin.

Mine too, but they no longer offer that many.
It's a shame that they don't start teaching languages in elementary
school.
Waiting until high school makes it too difficult to become fluent in a
second
language.

Yes, you are so right. I had weekly lessons in French (4-8) and German (1-3)
at my parochial school, but that was just a taste.

Out of curiousity, I just checked my high school's page. They still offer
Spanish, French, and German, and there is a Latin club. My hometown is
scientific-oriented, so German is still relevant. I was surprised that I
didn't see at least a club offering Arabic, Japanese, or Chinese.

"B Vaughan" wrote in message
...

"Gotten" was the original form in English, which has persisted longer
in the US than in the UK, although it's also slowly vanishing in the
US. Look at the OED if you don't believe me.

I do believe you - it's just that to use it is quintessentially American,
but British kids are copying it now. Just as bad is "Can I get" instead of
"Can I have".

I had never heard the word "gotten" here in the UK in my (56 year) life
until a year or so ago.

Dropping prepositions is not standard English in the US.

Eh? I'm a journalist and I even get stories from major news agencies which
say "The company announced Tuesday that a new director had been
appointed..." or similar.

I'm sure there are plenty of people in the UK who also speak nonstandard
English.

Thousands upon thousands, I'm sure. That's not to say it is to be
encouraged.

Ian

Hello, Ian!
You wrote on Fri, 25 Aug 2006 15:51:00 +0100:

?? "Gotten" was the original form in English, which has
?? persisted longer in the US than in the UK, although it's
?? also slowly vanishing in the US. Look at the OED if you
?? don't believe me.

IF I do believe you - it's just that to use it is
IF quintessentially American, but British kids are copying it
IF now. Just as bad is "Can I get" instead of "Can I have".

IF I had never heard the word "gotten" here in the UK in my
IF (56 year) life until a year or so ago.

?? Dropping prepositions is not standard English in the US.

IF Eh? I'm a journalist and I even get stories from major news
IF agencies which say "The company announced Tuesday that a
IF new director had been appointed..." or similar.

?? I'm sure there are plenty of people in the UK who also
?? speak nonstandard English.

IF Thousands upon thousands, I'm sure. That's not to say it is
IF to be encouraged.

Just to pour a little gas on the fire! What is "Standard
English": the language of the majority of speakers or that of a
self appointed elite who happen to live in the place where the
language started? :-) :-)

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.not