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  #141  
Old November 8th, 2007, 03:59 PM posted to rec.arts.dance,rec.travel.usa-canada
Bob Ford
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7
Default OT Political (was re Fire)

On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 03:15:23 -0800, Icono Clast
wrote:

Hatunen wrote:
some branches of protestantism that do not accept the Trinity


I guess that's what I was told about when a youth. I was probably
told by a protestant who believed it had to do with protestantism in
general rather than a particular branch thereof. I was too ignorant
to know any better and too disinterested to give a damn.

Peter D said:
If you must represent what others believe, at least have the decency (and
respect for them and their beliefs) to learn what they believe.


You've seen the tagline before.

Obviously I thought I knew. Apparently I did not. You're welcome to
seek, and point out, my future mistakes. You have my personal
guarantee that they'll appear.

I admit though, that it may be that you are arguing from your own
conclusion that acceptance of the Trinity defines Christianity
therefore anyone who does not accept the Trinity is, ipso facto,
not a Christian.


No, and I carefully reviewed what I did say. I neither said nor
believe that "the Trinity defines Christianity". I believe that
belief in the trinity distinguishes Roman Catholics from other
Christians. Well, believed that 'til I was informed, this past
week-end and repeated here, that all Christians believe in the trinity.

So where is the clarification about me shoving you up against a wall
and getting in your face hmmmm? Possibly even an apology for
misstating the facts.
That's news t'me.

--
_________________________________________________ __________________
A San Franciscan whose respect for each religion is equal.
http://geocities.com/dancefest/ --- http://geocities.com/iconoc/
TouringSFO: http://geocities.com/touringsfo/ - IClast @ Gmail.com

Bob Ford
Images In Motion
www.imagesinmotion.com
  #142  
Old November 8th, 2007, 06:42 PM posted to rec.arts.dance,rec.travel.usa-canada
Hatunen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,483
Default OT Political (was re Fire)

On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 03:15:23 -0800, Icono Clast
wrote:

I admit though, that it may be that you are arguing from your own
conclusion that acceptance of the Trinity defines Christianity
therefore anyone who does not accept the Trinity is, ipso facto,
not a Christian.


No, and I carefully reviewed what I did say. I neither said nor
believe that "the Trinity defines Christianity". I believe that
belief in the trinity distinguishes Roman Catholics from other
Christians. Well, believed that 'til I was informed, this past
week-end and repeated here, that all Christians believe in the trinity.


Um I said the stuff you're respOnding to, and I wasn't responding
to you.



--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
  #143  
Old November 8th, 2007, 06:48 PM posted to rec.arts.dance,rec.travel.usa-canada
Hatunen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,483
Default OT Political (was re Fire)

On Thu, 8 Nov 2007 00:17:23 -0600, "Peter D" [email protected] wrote:

"Hatunen" wrote
On Wed, 7 Nov 2007 11:15:55 -0600, "Peter D" [email protected] wrote:
"Hatunen" wrote in message
I admit though, that it may be that you are arguing from your own
conclusion that acceptance of the Trinity defines Christianity
therefore anyone who does not accept the Trinity is, ipso facto,
not a Christian.

You'd be right if that's what I actually said. But I didn't.
HAND


Yes you did. You said "Christans believe in the Trinitarian view
of God (Father, Son, Spirit)". You didn't say "Some Christans
believe in the Trinitarian view of God (Father, Son, Spirit)


You removed the quote from the context. I said, "Christian believe this...
Catholics believe this...". The "this" being idientical to counter what
Lew/Ike stated (that they believed differently). Hump my cyber-leg some more
if you must. Be offended if it strokes your ego. I don't care. This is the
end of the conversation as far as I'm concerned.


What you said was:

Christans believe in
the Tirnitarian view of God (Father, Son, Spirit). Catholics believe in the
Trinitarian view of God (Father, Son, Spirit). "Catholic" is a group that is
contained in "Christian".


I leave it to our other readers to decide whether you have
included all Christians in the category of those who believe in
the Trinity, thereby excluding anyone who does not believe in the
Trinity from the category "Christian". The English seems plain
enough to me.

There is a mode of thinking that claims that one is not a
Christian unless one's personal credo agrees with the Apostle's
or nicene Creeds, which include the Trinity. I certainly wouldn't
go that far.


--
************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
  #144  
Old November 8th, 2007, 11:34 PM posted to rec.arts.dance,rec.travel.usa-canada
Don Kirkman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 75
Default OT Political (was re Fire)

It seems to me I heard somewhere that Icono Clast wrote in article
:


[ the Trinity]

I think I was still a teen-ager when someone pointed out to me that
one of the big dif'rences 'tween the Catholics and other Christians
was that Catholics believe the three to be one and others the
Catholics' one to be three.


For about the last 1600 years (since well before there were Protestants
or Orthodox or Catholic - those names came later) there has been general
theological agreement that God is one (cf. Muslim doctrine "Allah is
one/there is only one Allah and Muhammad is his prophet"). The
"persons" of the Trinity are named for the masks worn in Greek theater;
the point is that the one God appears to mankind in different "masks".
Outside of ecclesiastics and academics not many people have a clear
understanding of that simple issue - which in fact has been at the root
of many brutal and bloody religious wars.

It is true that from the earliest times there were individuals and
groups that did not accept the doctrine of the Trinity, including
Muslims and Unitarians of various backgrounds.
--
Don Kirkman
  #145  
Old November 9th, 2007, 08:16 AM posted to rec.arts.dance,rec.travel.usa-canada
Bob Ford
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7
Default OT Political (was re Fire)

On Thu, 08 Nov 2007 03:15:23 -0800, Icono Clast
wrote:

Hatunen wrote:
some branches of protestantism that do not accept the Trinity


I guess that's what I was told about when a youth. I was probably
told by a protestant who believed it had to do with protestantism in
general rather than a particular branch thereof. I was too ignorant
to know any better and too disinterested to give a damn.

Peter D said:
If you must represent what others believe, at least have the decency (and
respect for them and their beliefs) to learn what they believe.


You've seen the tagline before.

Obviously I thought I knew. Apparently I did not. You're welcome to
seek, and point out, my future mistakes. You have my personal
guarantee that they'll appear.

I admit though, that it may be that you are arguing from your own
conclusion that acceptance of the Trinity defines Christianity
therefore anyone who does not accept the Trinity is, ipso facto,
not a Christian.


No, and I carefully reviewed what I did say. I neither said nor
believe that "the Trinity defines Christianity". I believe that
belief in the trinity distinguishes Roman Catholics from other
Christians. Well, believed that 'til I was informed, this past
week-end and repeated here, that all Christians believe in the trinity.

Well I'm waiting for your clarification of your misstatements our
conversation, or are you like some people who don't apologize even
when they know they are wrong.

As active as you are on this ng I know you have read my comments.

Remind me not to have conversations with you unless there are
witnesses present.
That's news t'me.

--
_________________________________________________ __________________
A San Franciscan whose respect for each religion is equal.
http://geocities.com/dancefest/ --- http://geocities.com/iconoc/
TouringSFO: http://geocities.com/touringsfo/ - IClast @ Gmail.com

Bob Ford
Images In Motion
www.imagesinmotion.com
  #146  
Old November 9th, 2007, 01:01 PM posted to rec.arts.dance,rec.travel.usa-canada
Icono Clast
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 631
Default OT Political (was re Fire)

Thank you for the clarification.

Don Kirkman wrote:
Icono Clast wrote: [ the Trinity]

I think I was still a teen-ager when someone pointed out to me
that one of the big dif'rences 'tween the Catholics and other
Christians was that Catholics believe the three to be one and
others the Catholics' one to be three.


For about the last 1600 years (since well before there were
Protestants or Orthodox or Catholic - those names came later)
there has been general theological agreement that God is one (cf.
Muslim doctrine "Allah is one/there is only one Allah and Muhammad
is his prophet"). The "persons" of the Trinity are named for the
masks worn in Greek theater; the point is that the one God appears
to mankind in different "masks". Outside of ecclesiastics and
academics not many people have a clear understanding of that
simple issue - which in fact has been at the root of many brutal
and bloody religious wars.

It is true that from the earliest times there were individuals and
groups that did not accept the doctrine of the Trinity, including
Muslims and Unitarians of various backgrounds.


--
__________________________________________________ _________________
A San Franciscan whose reverence for each god is equal.
http://geocities.com/dancefest/ --- http://geocities.com/iconoc/
TouringSFO: http://geocities.com/touringsfo/ - IClast @ Gmail.com

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

 




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