Experiences in Jerusalem

(Øystein) wrote in message . com...
"Will" wrote in message ...
"C-II" wrote in message
...

I recommend all 3 (although Egypt was a bit too touristic for my
liking).

I plan to go to Egypt as well, and have been asking for advices from
friends that have been there. When it comes to problems with heavy
tourism, you should follow one pice of advice: Stay away from the
pyramids and the area around! From what I have heard, you should focus
on the area around The Nile and The Red Sea.


That's a bit silly. The pyramids are amazing and unique in the world.
You might as well say: if you want to avoid tourism, don't go anywhere
amazing.

(Ben Sharvy) wrote in message . com...
(Øystein) wrote in message . com...
"Will" wrote in message ...
"C-II" wrote in message
...

I recommend all 3 (although Egypt was a bit too touristic for my
liking).

I plan to go to Egypt as well, and have been asking for advices from
friends that have been there. When it comes to problems with heavy
tourism, you should follow one pice of advice: Stay away from the
pyramids and the area around! From what I have heard, you should focus
on the area around The Nile and The Red Sea.


That's a bit silly. The pyramids are amazing and unique in the world.
You might as well say: if you want to avoid tourism, don't go anywhere
amazing.

Not really. If what I have heard is right, very littlet comes close to
the terrible conditions for tourists around the pyramids. On the other
side Egypt has so much amazing and unique to offer. But if you are
determined to go, why don't you just do so and report back when you
come back? Anybody else with experiences from the pyamids to share
with us?

Jan

On 27 Sep 2003 09:52:32 -0700, ?ystein wrote:
(Ben Sharvy) wrote in message . com...
That's a bit silly. The pyramids are amazing and unique in the world.
You might as well say: if you want to avoid tourism, don't go anywhere
amazing.

Not really. If what I have heard is right, very littlet comes close to
the terrible conditions for tourists around the pyramids. On the other
side Egypt has so much amazing and unique to offer. But if you are
determined to go, why don't you just do so and report back when you
come back? Anybody else with experiences from the pyamids to share
with us?

I've been to the pyramids of Giza. Like most of Egypt's major sites, it
is overrun with tourists. But you can move about as you please. Stop
for a while if you like. Relax. Gaze at the ancient wonder all
around. It is so much bigger than the ants of modern day that scurry
around the base. It can be an intensely inspiring place. It would be
shame to miss it because you focused on things that don't really matter.

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Use the From: header. Sending mail to
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(?ystein) wrote in message om...
(Ben Sharvy) wrote in message . com...
(Øystein) wrote in message . com...
"Will" wrote in message ...
"C-II" wrote in message
...

I recommend all 3 (although Egypt was a bit too touristic for my
liking).

I plan to go to Egypt as well, and have been asking for advices from
friends that have been there. When it comes to problems with heavy
tourism, you should follow one pice of advice: Stay away from the
pyramids and the area around! From what I have heard, you should focus
on the area around The Nile and The Red Sea.


That's a bit silly. The pyramids are amazing and unique in the world.
You might as well say: if you want to avoid tourism, don't go anywhere
amazing.

Not really. If what I have heard is right, very littlet comes close to
the terrible conditions for tourists around the pyramids. On the other
side Egypt has so much amazing and unique to offer. But if you are
determined to go, why don't you just do so and report back when you
come back? Anybody else with experiences from the pyamids to share
with us?

I've been there. The pyramids are amazing, and telling people on their
way to Egypt to avoid the pyramids is ridiculous.

(Ben Sharvy) wrote in message . com...
(?ystein) wrote in message om...
(Ben Sharvy) wrote in message . com...
(Øystein) wrote in message . com...
"Will" wrote in message ...
"C-II" wrote in message
...

I recommend all 3 (although Egypt was a bit too touristic for my
liking).

I plan to go to Egypt as well, and have been asking for advices from
friends that have been there. When it comes to problems with heavy
tourism, you should follow one pice of advice: Stay away from the
pyramids and the area around! From what I have heard, you should focus
on the area around The Nile and The Red Sea.


That's a bit silly. The pyramids are amazing and unique in the world.
You might as well say: if you want to avoid tourism, don't go anywhere
amazing.

Not really. If what I have heard is right, very littlet comes close to
the terrible conditions for tourists around the pyramids. On the other
side Egypt has so much amazing and unique to offer. But if you are
determined to go, why don't you just do so and report back when you
come back? Anybody else with experiences from the pyamids to share
with us?

I've been there. The pyramids are amazing, and telling people on their
way to Egypt to avoid the pyramids is ridiculous.

Well, some stories from visitors (I will not even mention that no
private initiative tourist business will think of taking no as an
answer):

-People situated inside the pyramids, ask you to follow them because
they want to show you something. Then they ask you for money in order
to not leave you inside the labyrinth.

-Visitors report about men hiding in the dark touch female tourists
legs as they pass

-Tourist in the areas of the pyramids report that when they paid
locals for a trip on the back of a camel, they made up lots of extra
payments that they din't told them about in front, includig food for
the camel. The guide also enjoyed touching the female tourist on parts
of the body that he 'accidently' came near because he was siting
behind her on the camel.

If you don't care about such things or the situation has improved go.
If you don't think it is worth it, don't. The situation isn't anything
close to this any other place than in the area of th4e pyramids.

Øystein.

"?ystein" wrote in message
om...
(Ben Sharvy) wrote in message
. com...
(?ystein) wrote in message
om...
(Ben Sharvy) wrote in message
. com...
(Øystein) wrote in message
. com...
"Will" wrote in message
...
"C-II" wrote in message
...

I recommend all 3 (although Egypt was a bit too touristic for my
liking).

I plan to go to Egypt as well, and have been asking for advices
from
friends that have been there. When it comes to problems with heavy
tourism, you should follow one pice of advice: Stay away from the
pyramids and the area around! From what I have heard, you should
focus
on the area around The Nile and The Red Sea.


That's a bit silly. The pyramids are amazing and unique in the
world.
You might as well say: if you want to avoid tourism, don't go
anywhere
amazing.

Not really. If what I have heard is right, very littlet comes close to
the terrible conditions for tourists around the pyramids. On the other
side Egypt has so much amazing and unique to offer. But if you are
determined to go, why don't you just do so and report back when you
come back? Anybody else with experiences from the pyamids to share
with us?

I've been there. The pyramids are amazing, and telling people on their
way to Egypt to avoid the pyramids is ridiculous.

Well, some stories snip

There's a huge difference between cautioning potential visitors about scams
and attempting to turn them away from visiting the only survivor of the
Seven Wonders of the World as you've been trying to do.

You said that Egypt has "so much amazing and unique to offer" on the other
side when there is nothing that has been consistently acknowledged
throughout the world for centuries as amazing and unique as an original
Wonder of the World that is the Great Pyramid of Giza.

Cautioning is good. Discouraging like you've been doing is way bad.

It destroys your credibility.


--
~~Bluesea~~
Spam is great in musubi but not in email.
Please take out the trash before sending a direct reply.

On 29 Sep 2003 00:23:57 -0700, ?ystein wrote:
Well, some stories from visitors (I will not even mention that no
private initiative tourist business will think of taking no as an
answer):

-People situated inside the pyramids, ask you to follow them because
they want to show you something. Then they ask you for money in order
to not leave you inside the labyrinth.

-Visitors report about men hiding in the dark touch female tourists
legs as they pass

-Tourist in the areas of the pyramids report that when they paid
locals for a trip on the back of a camel, they made up lots of extra
payments that they din't told them about in front, includig food for
the camel. The guide also enjoyed touching the female tourist on parts
of the body that he 'accidently' came near because he was siting
behind her on the camel.

If you don't care about such things or the situation has improved go.
If you don't think it is worth it, don't. The situation isn't anything
close to this any other place than in the area of th4e pyramids.

I think I can safely say that none of those who have responded to you so
far have encountered hassles of that scale at the pyramids. I certainly
haven't. I traveled all over Egypt last spring. I encountered a
multitude of minor nuisances. The Giza plateau seemed honest, almost to
a fault, by Egyptian standards.

I went inside the Great Pyramid on my second pass through Cairo. I
missed some things on the first pass. I would have liked to have
entered some of the side chambers. At most of Egypt's ancient sites, a
little baksheesh is all that is required to enter a locked room. That
is probably why they are locked. But, in this case, the guards didn't
seem interested.

--
Use the From: header. Sending mail to
or will only result in frustration.

(?ystein) wrote in message . com...
(Ben Sharvy) wrote in message . com...
(?ystein) wrote in message om...
(Ben Sharvy) wrote in message . com...
(Øystein) wrote in message . com...
"Will" wrote in message ...
"C-II" wrote in message
...

I recommend all 3 (although Egypt was a bit too touristic for my
liking).

I plan to go to Egypt as well, and have been asking for advices from
friends that have been there. When it comes to problems with heavy
tourism, you should follow one pice of advice: Stay away from the
pyramids and the area around! From what I have heard, you should focus
on the area around The Nile and The Red Sea.


That's a bit silly. The pyramids are amazing and unique in the world.
You might as well say: if you want to avoid tourism, don't go anywhere
amazing.

Not really. If what I have heard is right, very littlet comes close to
the terrible conditions for tourists around the pyramids. On the other
side Egypt has so much amazing and unique to offer. But if you are
determined to go, why don't you just do so and report back when you
come back? Anybody else with experiences from the pyamids to share
with us?

I've been there. The pyramids are amazing, and telling people on their
way to Egypt to avoid the pyramids is ridiculous.

Well, some stories from visitors (I will not even mention that no
private initiative tourist business will think of taking no as an
answer):

-People situated inside the pyramids, ask you to follow them because
they want to show you something. Then they ask you for money in order
to not leave you inside the labyrinth.

You should generally ignore people who turn up unasked for to "show
you something". Without possession of that little piece of common
sense, you shouldn't travel anywhere.

-Visitors report about men hiding in the dark touch female tourists
legs as they pass

Wear trousers.

-Tourist in the areas of the pyramids report that when they paid
locals for a trip on the back of a camel, they made up lots of extra
payments that they din't told them about in front, includig food for
the camel. The guide also enjoyed touching the female tourist on parts
of the body that he 'accidently' came near because he was siting
behind her on the camel.

So just avoid the camels. The attraction at Giza is the pyramids and
other monumental buildings, not the stupid camels.

If you don't care about such things or the situation has improved go.
If you don't think it is worth it, don't. The situation isn't anything
close to this any other place than in the area of th4e pyramids.

I actually thought the Giza area was absolutely fine. No problems at
all. In Luxor, on the other hand, we were slightly annoyed by a couple
of obnoxious "guides" who wouldn't get the message and kept following
us.

Outside of a couple of small, well-defined, over-touristed areas,
Egypt is one of the most friendly and hospitable countries you will
ever find. You should definitely go _both_ to the Giza pyramids _and_
to the non-touristy areas of Egypt to get the full experience.

Bjorn

On 21 Oct 2003 07:18:03 -0700, (Bjorn Olsson) wrote:

(?ystein) wrote in message . com...
(Ben Sharvy) wrote in message . com...
(?ystein) wrote in message om...
(Ben Sharvy) wrote in message . com...
(Øystein) wrote in message . com...
"Will" wrote in message ...
"C-II" wrote in message
...

I recommend all 3 (although Egypt was a bit too touristic for my
liking).

I plan to go to Egypt as well, and have been asking for advices from
friends that have been there. When it comes to problems with heavy
tourism, you should follow one pice of advice: Stay away from the
pyramids and the area around! From what I have heard, you should focus
on the area around The Nile and The Red Sea.

The pyramids are full-on tourism, no doubt. But you _must_ go there.
They are incredible. There is no way to describe the awe they inspire.
The simple perfection, the size, the historical meaning, the fact that
a simple stone mason five _thousand_ years ago made the stone that you
are touching - it's an amazing experience. It's worth playing the
tourist game for that.

The Red Sea, OTOH, is one of the world's best dive spots. Nature's
wonders there underwater are equally amazing.

Going up the Nile to Luxor is worth it, too. I'd probably spend a few
days in Cairo, then head for Luxor.

-People situated inside the pyramids, ask you to follow them because
they want to show you something. Then they ask you for money in order
to not leave you inside the labyrinth.

You should generally ignore people who turn up unasked for to "show
you something". Without possession of that little piece of common
sense, you shouldn't travel anywhere.

Balderdash. I've been "befriended" numerous times and had good
experiences seeing things that most tourists don't. You just have to
have a good sense about the situation and know that it's extremely
rare for a local in the 3rd world to approach you without an ulterior
motive.

-Visitors report about men hiding in the dark touch female tourists
legs as they pass

Wear trousers.

In Moslem countries a long skirt is better.

-Tourist in the areas of the pyramids report that when they paid
locals for a trip on the back of a camel, they made up lots of extra
payments that they din't told them about in front, includig food for
the camel. The guide also enjoyed touching the female tourist on parts
of the body that he 'accidently' came near because he was siting
behind her on the camel.

So just avoid the camels. The attraction at Giza is the pyramids and
other monumental buildings, not the stupid camels.

How often do you get the chance to see a camel at home, much less the
chance to ride one? Seeing strange animals up close is one of the joys
of travel, and can be at least as enjoyable as looking at
architectural monoliths. I'll admit, though, camels _are_ stupid.

If you don't care about such things or the situation has improved go.
If you don't think it is worth it, don't. The situation isn't anything
close to this any other place than in the area of th4e pyramids.

I actually thought the Giza area was absolutely fine. No problems at
all. In Luxor, on the other hand, we were slightly annoyed by a couple
of obnoxious "guides" who wouldn't get the message and kept following
us.

Outside of a couple of small, well-defined, over-touristed areas,
Egypt is one of the most friendly and hospitable countries you will
ever find. You should definitely go _both_ to the Giza pyramids _and_
to the non-touristy areas of Egypt to get the full experience.

In all my travels, there are only two countries where people have
thrown stones at me - Morocco and Egypt. (Those goatherd punks have
major league arms, too.) I found both countries to be incredible
places to visit, from historical sights, to food, culture, arts and
landscape. But they are also two of the oldest tourist destinations in
the world, and as 3rd world countries, they've had a long history of
seeing the disparity between their poverty and tourist wealth. They
have many tried and true ways of parting tourists from their money.
Dealing with Egyptians can be a real hassle. Especially for western
women. It helps to know local custom, treat others the way you'd like
to be treated, and comport yourself in a way that discourages abuse or
harrassment.

"Bjorn Olsson" wrote in message
om...
(?ystein) wrote in message
. com...
(Ben Sharvy) wrote in message
. com...
(?ystein) wrote in message
om...
(Ben Sharvy) wrote in message
. com...
(Øystein) wrote in message
. com...
"Will" wrote in message
...
"C-II" wrote in message
...

I recommend all 3 (although Egypt was a bit too touristic for
my
liking).

I plan to go to Egypt as well, and have been asking for advices
from
friends that have been there. When it comes to problems with
heavy
tourism, you should follow one pice of advice: Stay away from
the
pyramids and the area around! From what I have heard, you should
focus
on the area around The Nile and The Red Sea.


That's a bit silly. The pyramids are amazing and unique in the
world.
You might as well say: if you want to avoid tourism, don't go
anywhere
amazing.

Not really. If what I have heard is right, very littlet comes close
to
the terrible conditions for tourists around the pyramids. On the
other
side Egypt has so much amazing and unique to offer. But if you are
determined to go, why don't you just do so and report back when you
come back? Anybody else with experiences from the pyamids to share
with us?

I've been there. The pyramids are amazing, and telling people on their
way to Egypt to avoid the pyramids is ridiculous.

Well, some stories from visitors (I will not even mention that no
private initiative tourist business will think of taking no as an
answer):

-People situated inside the pyramids, ask you to follow them because
they want to show you something. Then they ask you for money in order
to not leave you inside the labyrinth.

You should generally ignore people who turn up unasked for to "show
you something". Without possession of that little piece of common
sense, you shouldn't travel anywhere.

C'mon. Indiana Jones never would have found any good trinkets if he didn't
trust those strangers in the dark.


--
McWebber
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