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Experiences in Jerusalem



 
 
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  #12  
Old October 22nd, 2003, 08:32 AM
?ystein
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Default Experiences in Jerusalem

Turby wrote in message . ..

The pyramids are full-on tourism, no doubt. But you _must_ go there.


Of course you don't have to go there. If you are keen enough to see
them on close hold to go through lots of annoying attention then do,
if not there are litterary hundreds of alternative ways to get
interesting and exciting experiences in Egypt. Easy as that.

So just avoid the camels. The attraction at Giza is the pyramids and
other monumental buildings, not the stupid camels.


How often do you get the chance to see a camel at home, much less the
chance to ride one? Seeing strange animals up close is one of the joys
of travel, and can be at least as enjoyable as looking at
architectural monoliths. I'll admit, though, camels _are_ stupid.


Very true!

Outside of a couple of small, well-defined, over-touristed areas,
Egypt is one of the most friendly and hospitable countries you will
ever find. You should definitely go _both_ to the Giza pyramids _and_
to the non-touristy areas of Egypt to get the full experience.


In all my travels, there are only two countries where people have
thrown stones at me - Morocco and Egypt. (Those goatherd punks have
major league arms, too.) I found both countries to be incredible
places to visit, from historical sights, to food, culture, arts and
landscape. But they are also two of the oldest tourist destinations in
the world, and as 3rd world countries, they've had a long history of
seeing the disparity between their poverty and tourist wealth. They
have many tried and true ways of parting tourists from their money.
Dealing with Egyptians can be a real hassle. Especially for western
women. It helps to know local custom, treat others the way you'd like
to be treated, and comport yourself in a way that discourages abuse or
harrassment.


Thank you for giving some first hand balanced and sensible advice on
this issues. They have been hard to find so far.


Best regards,

Jan.
  #13  
Old October 22nd, 2003, 11:06 PM
Carole Appleyard
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Default Experiences in Jerusalem

In article , Turby
writes


-Tourist in the areas of the pyramids report that when they paid
locals for a trip on the back of a camel, they made up lots of extra
payments that they din't told them about in front, includig food for
the camel. The guide also enjoyed touching the female tourist on parts
of the body that he 'accidently' came near because he was siting
behind her on the camel.


So just avoid the camels. The attraction at Giza is the pyramids and
other monumental buildings, not the stupid camels.


How often do you get the chance to see a camel at home, much less the
chance to ride one? Seeing strange animals up close is one of the joys
of travel, and can be at least as enjoyable as looking at
architectural monoliths. I'll admit, though, camels _are_ stupid.

I can recommend Australia for experiencing camels.
--
Carole
  #15  
Old November 9th, 2003, 05:22 AM
Bjorn Olsson
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Default Experiences in Jerusalem

Turby wrote in message . ..
On 21 Oct 2003 07:18:03 -0700, (Bjorn Olsson) wrote:

(?ystein) wrote in message . com...
(Ben Sharvy) wrote in message . com...
(?ystein) wrote in message om...
(Ben Sharvy) wrote in message . com...
(Øystein) wrote in message . com...
"Will" wrote in message ...
"C-II" wrote in message
...


I recommend all 3 (although Egypt was a bit too touristic for my
liking).

I plan to go to Egypt as well, and have been asking for advices from
friends that have been there. When it comes to problems with heavy
tourism, you should follow one pice of advice: Stay away from the
pyramids and the area around! From what I have heard, you should focus
on the area around The Nile and The Red Sea.

The pyramids are full-on tourism, no doubt. But you _must_ go there.
They are incredible. There is no way to describe the awe they inspire.
The simple perfection, the size, the historical meaning, the fact that
a simple stone mason five _thousand_ years ago made the stone that you
are touching - it's an amazing experience. It's worth playing the
tourist game for that.

The Red Sea, OTOH, is one of the world's best dive spots. Nature's
wonders there underwater are equally amazing.

Going up the Nile to Luxor is worth it, too. I'd probably spend a few
days in Cairo, then head for Luxor.

-People situated inside the pyramids, ask you to follow them because
they want to show you something. Then they ask you for money in order
to not leave you inside the labyrinth.


You should generally ignore people who turn up unasked for to "show
you something". Without possession of that little piece of common
sense, you shouldn't travel anywhere.


Balderdash. I've been "befriended" numerous times and had good
experiences seeing things that most tourists don't.


Sure. Me too.

You just have to
have a good sense about the situation and know that it's extremely
rare for a local in the 3rd world to approach you without an ulterior
motive.


That´s right. But as solution to the "problems" listed by another
poster in this thread, simply ignoring the people who turn up unasked
for should work well.

-Visitors report about men hiding in the dark touch female tourists
legs as they pass


Wear trousers.


In Moslem countries a long skirt is better.


Depends a bit in which moslem country and even where in that country.
I don't know if times have changed, but we did occassionally see women
wearing jeans in Cairo when I was there.

-Tourist in the areas of the pyramids report that when they paid
locals for a trip on the back of a camel, they made up lots of extra
payments that they din't told them about in front, includig food for
the camel. The guide also enjoyed touching the female tourist on parts
of the body that he 'accidently' came near because he was siting
behind her on the camel.


So just avoid the camels. The attraction at Giza is the pyramids and
other monumental buildings, not the stupid camels.


How often do you get the chance to see a camel at home, much less the
chance to ride one? Seeing strange animals up close is one of the joys
of travel, and can be at least as enjoyable as looking at
architectural monoliths.


I guess it's a matter of taste, but personally I simply didn´t get the
idea of this camel-thing. I just don't see the point. If someone was
offering donkey rides outside the Louvre, what would you choose: the
museum or the donkey?

If you have a special interest in camels, it's better to visit a camel
market. They can be found in any egyptian city.

I'll admit, though, camels _are_ stupid.

If you don't care about such things or the situation has improved go.
If you don't think it is worth it, don't. The situation isn't anything
close to this any other place than in the area of th4e pyramids.


I actually thought the Giza area was absolutely fine. No problems at
all. In Luxor, on the other hand, we were slightly annoyed by a couple
of obnoxious "guides" who wouldn't get the message and kept following
us.

Outside of a couple of small, well-defined, over-touristed areas,
Egypt is one of the most friendly and hospitable countries you will
ever find. You should definitely go _both_ to the Giza pyramids _and_
to the non-touristy areas of Egypt to get the full experience.


In all my travels, there are only two countries where people have
thrown stones at me - Morocco and Egypt.


Had that in Morocco. Never in Egypt.

Bjorn
  #16  
Old November 9th, 2003, 07:14 PM
Turby
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Default Experiences in Jerusalem

On 8 Nov 2003 20:22:17 -0800, (Bjorn Olsson) wrote:

Turby wrote in message . ..
On 21 Oct 2003 07:18:03 -0700,
(Bjorn Olsson) wrote:

You should generally ignore people who turn up unasked for to "show
you something". Without possession of that little piece of common
sense, you shouldn't travel anywhere.


Balderdash. I've been "befriended" numerous times and had good
experiences seeing things that most tourists don't.


Sure. Me too.

You just have to
have a good sense about the situation and know that it's extremely
rare for a local in the 3rd world to approach you without an ulterior
motive.


That´s right. But as solution to the "problems" listed by another
poster in this thread, simply ignoring the people who turn up unasked
for should work well.


But then you'd miss getting to know the guy in Luxor - the one whose
family has been in the artifact faking business for eons. His family
sent him to University in England to study chemistry. He uses that to
create the right "aged" patina for scarabs and such. He took me back
to his family shop/factory. The artifacts they produce are
indistinguishable from the real thing to the naked eye. He showed me a
real scarab and a fake one.

Or the guy in Amridhil Skoura, Morocco, who accosted me on the street
and took me on a tour of the town, intoduced me to his family, and fed
me a lunch of tea, almonds & dates, goat cheese and bread - and then
refused the gift I offered him.

Your rule of thumb usually works ~1/3rd of the time. Another 1/3rd of
the time, you have to use the other rule - "NO! Get the hell away from
me!" And 1/3rd of the time, it's worth paying attention.

 




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