Ship appeal through time

Karen is unhappy with the QM2. And I understand her comments about the
service on the ship not meeting Cunard standards. But, I think Cunard
may have one of the few ships that anybody will care that much about 15
to 20 years from now. I was going on and on in my head about great ships
being one-offs, ships like the Rotterdam V, QE2, France/Norway, and yes,
these ships satisfied folks for years.

This is the ship I'm most interested in. I'm not that enamored by new
ships or ships built for current trends because I'm not into the
popularity of the now. I'm into what's going to be appealing for a long
time way after the newness and the trendiness of it has worn off. Right
now, I see few ships that will be that. Century? Maybe. P&O Oriana, I
think a stronger possibility. Deutschland, a retro ship but something
that may hold appeal as a modern era ship. Voyager as a class might.

For a long time a ship that wasn't a one-off, the Pacific Princess, twin
to the Island Princess, satisfied due to some intangible quality. A
small, 70s era ship that nonetheless had people raving about service,
food, and a feeling of community--she had ratings higher than the more
contemporary ships of the Princess line.

I don't have a crystal ball, but I just see the time now for cruise
expansion and the great mass marketing commodity cruise era as something
current and only that. I don't know if we'll ever get back into building
one-offs at all or trying to make ships to appeal for ages. I don't know
how long the corporate structures and emphasis will be in place. I do
know that times change and there are cycles of values.

15 to 20 years from now the cruise industry will be different than
today. Who knows what company or corporation will be the big players
then (may not be American). And, what current ship will still be sailing
and will build a legacy for itself. What in 15 years from now will be
the Norway or QE2? The ship or ship class with lasting appeal.

Ben S. (I do admire some mass industries, btw)

Ben
The whole aura of bygone ships, IMO, is due in some ways to old movies,
romance stories and the mystery of the seas.
In real life there were three classes. First, second and third. Those
sailing third class would have an entirely different tale to tell than
those in first class.and it wouldn't contain stories of
wrap-around-promenade teak decks, multiple servings of food ` room
service etc.
Would we, the majority of posters here, be able to go first class
today?. I think not.
Again IMO the cruse industry has flourlshed because the cruising public
today does not want the ships of yesterday. My son wa six years old when
we sailed on the original QM and QE. He remembers only the good things.
I remember no good things Perhaps that had to do with us sailing third
class.
As a matter of interest what do you discuss at your get togethers re old
ships?
I have sailed on all the mass cruising lines
I have sailed inside, outside, balconies, suites and know I prefer "now"
to "then" regardless of where my cabin is.

S'nd I
XXX

(* _ *)

Ben
The whole aura of bygone ships, IMO, is due in some ways to old movies,
romance stories and the mystery of the seas.
In real life there were three classes. First, second and third. Those
sailing third class would have an entirely different tale to tell than
those in first class.and it wouldn't contain stories of
wrap-around-promenade teak decks, multiple servings of food ` room
service etc.
Would we, the majority of posters here, be able to go first class
today?. I think not.
Again IMO the cruse industry has flourlshed because the cruising public
today does not want the ships of yesterday. My son wa six years old when
we sailed on the original QM and QE. He remembers only the good things.
I remember no good things Perhaps that had to do with us sailing third
class.
As a matter of interest what do you discuss at your get togethers re old
ships?
I have sailed on all the mass cruising lines
I have sailed inside, outside, balconies, suites and know I prefer "now"
to "then" regardless of where my cabin is.

S'nd I
XXX

(* _ *)

I would like to add to my post that the food - third class - was so bad
I requested to be allowed into the galley to cook for my son and myself.
Request denied. Steak was served one night and when I asked for a steak
knife "they" said they did not have any
I ordered boiled eggs one morning and they were delivered to the table
in a shot glass. I was informed there were no egg cups available.
On my very first cruise - NCL - Seaward I brought my own egg cup.
Needless to say it was not needed.and I walked around all week in awe
Yes I will take "now" and not "then"

S'nd I
XXX

(* _ *)

I would like to add to my post that the food - third class - was so bad
I requested to be allowed into the galley to cook for my son and myself.
Request denied. Steak was served one night and when I asked for a steak
knife "they" said they did not have any
I ordered boiled eggs one morning and they were delivered to the table
in a shot glass. I was informed there were no egg cups available.
On my very first cruise - NCL - Seaward I brought my own egg cup.
Needless to say it was not needed.and I walked around all week in awe
Yes I will take "now" and not "then"

S'nd I
XXX

(* _ *)

Sunny,

I don't disagree with what you state. The ships I mentioned, Rotterdam
V, QE2, Norway, Pacific Princess, are ships that were recently retired
and ships many of us have sailed on. My argument is more a concept
argument of building ships for the ages opposed to building ships
around trends and actually building in planned obsolesence.

I'm wondering aloud if we'll get out of the commodity ships and back
into making ships with a longer vision of how long they'll be in
service and remembered.

Ben S.


villa deauville wrote:
Ben
The whole aura of bygone ships, IMO, is due in some ways to old
movies,
romance stories and the mystery of the seas.
In real life there were three classes. First, second and third. Those
sailing third class would have an entirely different tale to tell
than
those in first class.and it wouldn't contain stories of
wrap-around-promenade teak decks, multiple servings of food ` room
service etc.
Would we, the majority of posters here, be able to go first class
today?. I think not.
Again IMO the cruse industry has flourlshed because the cruising
public
today does not want the ships of yesterday. My son wa six years old
when
we sailed on the original QM and QE. He remembers only the good
things.
I remember no good things Perhaps that had to do with us sailing
third
class.
As a matter of interest what do you discuss at your get togethers re
old
ships?
I have sailed on all the mass cruising lines
I have sailed inside, outside, balconies, suites and know I prefer
"now"
to "then" regardless of where my cabin is.

S'nd I
XXX

(* _ *)

Sunny,

I don't disagree with what you state. The ships I mentioned, Rotterdam
V, QE2, Norway, Pacific Princess, are ships that were recently retired
and ships many of us have sailed on. My argument is more a concept
argument of building ships for the ages opposed to building ships
around trends and actually building in planned obsolesence.

I'm wondering aloud if we'll get out of the commodity ships and back
into making ships with a longer vision of how long they'll be in
service and remembered.

Ben S.


villa deauville wrote:
Ben
The whole aura of bygone ships, IMO, is due in some ways to old
movies,
romance stories and the mystery of the seas.
In real life there were three classes. First, second and third. Those
sailing third class would have an entirely different tale to tell
than
those in first class.and it wouldn't contain stories of
wrap-around-promenade teak decks, multiple servings of food ` room
service etc.
Would we, the majority of posters here, be able to go first class
today?. I think not.
Again IMO the cruse industry has flourlshed because the cruising
public
today does not want the ships of yesterday. My son wa six years old
when
we sailed on the original QM and QE. He remembers only the good
things.
I remember no good things Perhaps that had to do with us sailing
third
class.
As a matter of interest what do you discuss at your get togethers re
old
ships?
I have sailed on all the mass cruising lines
I have sailed inside, outside, balconies, suites and know I prefer
"now"
to "then" regardless of where my cabin is.

S'nd I
XXX

(* _ *)

Karen Segboer wrote:
Benjamin Smith wrote:

Karen is unhappy with the QM2. And I understand her comments about
the
service on the ship not meeting Cunard standards. But, I think
Cunard
may have one of the few ships that anybody will care that much about
15
to 20 years from now.

I'm not all that sure about that now, Ben. I thought the QM2 would
be
a one-of-a-kind ocean liner, and although it *is* an ocean liner
rather than a cruise ship, it's being used more as a cruise ship.


Karen, I would elect you to a "panel of experts" to educate the people
running Cunard on the folly of their ways. I've read reviews on the
ship and a lot of the problems with the product is how the ship is
being used.

I tihnk that's what the ship line's need. I'd elect Peg for Celebrity
and Tim Rubacky advisor to all lines. Tim has a sharp business head
along with knowledge of the various lines and brands over a good period
of time Right now it seems highly marketing based. I feel marketing
results will bring a Wal-Mart type of overall experience in this
industry. Effective, profitable business, good value, but a
by-the-numbers product to use.

I was going on and on in my head about great ships
being one-offs, ships like the Rotterdam V, QE2, France/Norway, and
yes,
these ships satisfied folks for years.

They still do, even while not in service. Ships like the Regal
Princess, the Carnival Triumph or the Majesty of the Seas could go to
scrap and nobody would much care. Not true at all of the ships you
mentioned.


Agreed.

15 to 20 years from now the cruise industry will be different than
today. Who knows what company or corporation will be the big players

then (may not be American). And, what current ship will still be
sailing
and will build a legacy for itself. What in 15 years from now will
be
the Norway or QE2? The ship or ship class with lasting appeal.

Ben S. (I do admire some mass industries, btw)

I'd like to see smaller, boutique-type lines gain a following in the
future. I'd also like to see a cruise line like Ren break into the
industry again.


Yes. Ren, IMO, revealed an example of besides business bungling, too
quick an expansion and overestimating the true size of their market.
But their concept was very appealing and they could've had a loyal,
even passionate following. Ocenia is what we have left, but they aren't
quite the same.

Hopefully, sometime in the future the climate may be favorable for
smallish, boutique-type lines.

Karen,
who in 2004 discovered all mass market lines are not created equally
and the label of premium, mass market and economy don't hold water.


I'm with you, now. I see these terms being used less. Something much
more accurate and descriptive is needed now.

Ben S.

__ /7__/7__/7__
\::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

http://www.cupcaked.com/reviews =AE
(...and leave off the "potatoes" to e-mail)

"Benjamin Smith" wrote in message
ink.net...
Karen is unhappy with the QM2. And I understand her comments about the
service on the ship not meeting Cunard standards. But, I think Cunard may
have one of the few ships that anybody will care that much about 15 to 20
years from now. I was going on and on in my head about great ships being
one-offs, ships like the Rotterdam V, QE2, France/Norway, and yes, these
ships satisfied folks for years.

This is the ship I'm most interested in. I'm not that enamored by new
ships or ships built for current trends because I'm not into the
popularity of the now. I'm into what's going to be appealing for a long
time way after the newness and the trendiness of it has worn off. Right
now, I see few ships that will be that. Century? Maybe. P&O Oriana, I
think a stronger possibility. Deutschland, a retro ship but something that
may hold appeal as a modern era ship. Voyager as a class might.

For a long time a ship that wasn't a one-off, the Pacific Princess, twin
to the Island Princess, satisfied due to some intangible quality. A small,
70s era ship that nonetheless had people raving about service, food, and a
feeling of community--she had ratings higher than the more contemporary
ships of the Princess line.

I don't have a crystal ball, but I just see the time now for cruise
expansion and the great mass marketing commodity cruise era as something
current and only that. I don't know if we'll ever get back into building
one-offs at all or trying to make ships to appeal for ages. I don't know
how long the corporate structures and emphasis will be in place. I do know
that times change and there are cycles of values.

15 to 20 years from now the cruise industry will be different than today.
Who knows what company or corporation will be the big players then (may
not be American). And, what current ship will still be sailing and will
build a legacy for itself. What in 15 years from now will be the Norway or
QE2? The ship or ship class with lasting appeal.


There were classic cars made back in the 60's and 70's as well. And you had
a feeling that they were special when they came out.

The 63 Corvette
The 67 Split Back Window Stingray
The 65 Mustang [Lee Iacocca)
The 67 GTO (Muscle Cars) [John DeLorean]
The 69 Dodge Charger of Dukes of Hazard Vintage
The 70's Era TransAm's of Smokey & the Bandit Vintage

I don't see any of the cars of today becoming classics. Nor do I see any
cars today that I have that special feeling about.

And, other than the QM2, I don't see any ships with any lasting appeal. And
the ONLY reason I say that about the QM2 is because of her predecessors.
Not because of her. If the Corvette was a Ford instead of a Chevy she'd
still have been special. If the QM2's body was one of 6 RCI ships, she'd
be forgotten in 10 years as well.

--Tom

"Benjamin Smith" wrote in message
ink.net...
Karen is unhappy with the QM2. And I understand her comments about the
service on the ship not meeting Cunard standards. But, I think Cunard may
have one of the few ships that anybody will care that much about 15 to 20
years from now. I was going on and on in my head about great ships being
one-offs, ships like the Rotterdam V, QE2, France/Norway, and yes, these
ships satisfied folks for years.

This is the ship I'm most interested in. I'm not that enamored by new
ships or ships built for current trends because I'm not into the
popularity of the now. I'm into what's going to be appealing for a long
time way after the newness and the trendiness of it has worn off. Right
now, I see few ships that will be that. Century? Maybe. P&O Oriana, I
think a stronger possibility. Deutschland, a retro ship but something that
may hold appeal as a modern era ship. Voyager as a class might.

For a long time a ship that wasn't a one-off, the Pacific Princess, twin
to the Island Princess, satisfied due to some intangible quality. A small,
70s era ship that nonetheless had people raving about service, food, and a
feeling of community--she had ratings higher than the more contemporary
ships of the Princess line.

I don't have a crystal ball, but I just see the time now for cruise
expansion and the great mass marketing commodity cruise era as something
current and only that. I don't know if we'll ever get back into building
one-offs at all or trying to make ships to appeal for ages. I don't know
how long the corporate structures and emphasis will be in place. I do know
that times change and there are cycles of values.

15 to 20 years from now the cruise industry will be different than today.
Who knows what company or corporation will be the big players then (may
not be American). And, what current ship will still be sailing and will
build a legacy for itself. What in 15 years from now will be the Norway or
QE2? The ship or ship class with lasting appeal.


There were classic cars made back in the 60's and 70's as well. And you had
a feeling that they were special when they came out.

The 63 Corvette
The 67 Split Back Window Stingray
The 65 Mustang [Lee Iacocca)
The 67 GTO (Muscle Cars) [John DeLorean]
The 69 Dodge Charger of Dukes of Hazard Vintage
The 70's Era TransAm's of Smokey & the Bandit Vintage

I don't see any of the cars of today becoming classics. Nor do I see any
cars today that I have that special feeling about.

And, other than the QM2, I don't see any ships with any lasting appeal. And
the ONLY reason I say that about the QM2 is because of her predecessors.
Not because of her. If the Corvette was a Ford instead of a Chevy she'd
still have been special. If the QM2's body was one of 6 RCI ships, she'd
be forgotten in 10 years as well.

--Tom