Cambodia crackdown on pedos

John L wrote:

And with all YOUR so called CONCERN sitting on your arse in your
armchair, why don't you travel to Cambodia & do some REAL work.

yeah, well... i'm not the one rattling on about what the cambodian
government SHOULD be doing... i'm simply pointing out the illogic and
ignorance of someone criticizing people who are in fact, in whatever
imperfect and corrupt manner, proposing to actually do something...
complaining that any kind of crackdown on men who travel to **** kids is
a bad idea smacks of idiocy to my mind... but there you go, eh?


michael

Nomen Nescio wrote:

I think the larger point is that this 'crackdown' has gone on for over
two years now and has resulted in the arrests of less than a dozen
Westerners, with the last one over six months ago (if you go Googling
since these are all hugely publicized international stories).

and how many are deterred from going with each arrest? each time more
publicity is generated by announcements of further "crackdowns"? how
many arrests would it take for it to be worth supporting these flawed
initiatives?

And yet
according to Kristof's columns in The New York Times it continues to
thrive with him reporting that all the brothel customers he saw were
either Cambodian or Thai.

Kristof has been visiting brothels that provide children? or is he on
about brothels in general?

the larger point in this thread is that a number of posters seem to
think that targeting the sexual abuse of children should take precedence
over targeting foreign paedophiles (which the thais would be if they
were doing kids in Kristof's column)... this, as i have pointed out more
than enough times, is on the face of it ridiculous and betrays a total
ignorance of what is the case with how child sexual abuse is "dealt
with" in developed countries...

michael

On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 22:14:34 GMT, "JosephP"
wrote:


"Tebojockey" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 17:42:30 -0800 (PST), Citrus Flavor
wrote:

Xtile wrote:
six-toes wrote:
PHNOM PENH,

Cambodia Cambodian officials are talking about ways to stop
foreigners
from coming to their country to have sex with children.

They could start by arresting the pimps....but....wait....the pimps are
government people, army people, hmmm......

Indeed. And if you read the AFP wire story (
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...afp/cambodiaec
onomytourismchildsex_050228070410a )
there's also this quote:

"They will be looking at how the private sector, NGOs, embassies and
the government can work together better, particularly in providing
information, (and) arresting and prosecuting Westerners," World Vision
country director Talmage Payne told reporters.

So again the phantom scourge of the 'Western Pedophile' will be the
focus of this latest effort, no matter that Westerners have always
been a vanishingly small part of the problem. Nevermind that far
and away the vast majority of pedophiles in Cambodia are either
themselves Cambodian or are Chinese, Taiwanese, or Japanese businessmen
or tourists. If the NGOs can identify the WHITE MAN as the problem
then they can more easily go to the WHITE COUNTRIES for funding for
their latest fleet of Landrovers (or some such), which is the ONLY
thing any of this is about.

It's a prime example of the hysterical NGO and the "protect the
children" cause du jure. Now every white person going there will be
the subject of self-appointed NGO overseers who will scream and shout
hysterically when the person goes anywhere near a strip club. It's
just a way to get noticed for the NGOs. Unfortunately for Cambodia,
the biggest threat really does come from the Asian business person and
sex tourist.

Have you ever noticed that anytime an NGO or the government, or indeed
anyone proselytizing about anything begins to lose their argument,
they turn to the old standby winner: "save the children!"?

I don't hold your alleged "rights" to sex tourism in high regard.
It is not wise to brag about being a piece of ****.




Pardon me, Junior,

Where was I talking about rights? Please be sure of your arguments.

I really don't care what you hold in high regard. I certainly am not
bragging about anything.

You, on the other hand, by your post, have removed any and all doubt
concerning your mental deficiency. Did mommy wear a girdle one too
many times while she was carrying you in utero?

You would do well to tend to your tiny little plot of land somewhere
there in parochial-ville rather than involving yourself in
international affairs at a level where you have subsequently proven
yourself incapable of performing .

Drive through, please.

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On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 18:03:36 GMT, michael wrote:

Why is it so much more effective for Cambodian officials to arrest and
prosecute a visiting tourist than it is to arrest and prosecute a
local?

ok... one more time for the really dumb kid... how much easier is it to
investigate brothels, pimps, go-betweens and suspected offenders with
related charges etc... and travel patterns (why they need the support of
foreign police)...

than someone's dad, living his normal life in the normal way... what do
you suggest, a policeman outside every house listening at the walls? you
clearly have NO CLUE what you are talking about and no capacity for
learning by thinking just a little... so you are welcome to your
neurotic and meaningless opinions; after all, it's usenet, right?

The same way that any other law is enforced. It doesn't require a
policeman outside every house to enforce other laws, so why would it
require that to investigate pedophiles?

If prosecution of those involved with sexually abusing children is the
real aim, I'd say its a whole lot easier to investigate offenders
permanently living in a country and regularly abusing kids than those
who fly in out of the blue for a few days. Not that I'm suggesting
that visitors should be excluded, the law should be applied equally to
all.

For some strange reason, you appear to believe that the law on sexual
offenses against children should not apply to local people in
Cambodia. You say "they get taken care of within "treatment"
modalities rather than the system of criminal law most of the time".
In practice that means getting away with it and remaining free to
abuse more children. What's so wrong with using the legal system? Look
at the trial that opened last week in France with 66 people charged
with pedophile offenses. No "treatment modalities" there, just
straightforward enforcement of the law, as it should be.

and with all your CONCERN for these victims, what do you do there in the
phillipines while the NGOs guys are doing nothing? besides defend the
rights of white paedophiles to fly in for a week or two of kiddy-****ing
now and again?

Despite my posting the following statement just two days ago, you
still want to misrepresent things to make it appear that I support
foreign pedophiles. And you told me I was the one who can't read....

On Fri, 04 Mar 2005 23:24:24 +0800, Chris Blunt
wrote:
"Can I just make it quite clear I'm not suggesting that foreign
pedophiles should be allowed to get away with what they do. Some
people commenting on my posts seem keen to twist things around to make
it appear that way. What I'm saying is, if you really want to tackle
the issue the problem should be addressed uniformly, regardless of the
nationality of the guilty parties."

You really are an offensive little individual, aren't you. I'm the one
who is advocating prosecuting pedophiles - all of them. Its you who
has this idea that some should be immune from the law. You've so far
been unable to justify your stance so now you resort to personal
attacks on me in a desperate final attempt to save face. As others
have noted, your personal insults cause you to lose any credibility
you might once have had.

Chris

Tuuk wrote:
Sure, I can elaborate.

By publicly allowing foreigners to come in and rape your children is
wrong.
If the country wants to stop it, it must come down hard on those who
do it.
By implementing very tough laws will send a strong message to the
public
globally that this is not going to be allowed anymore and if you do
come to
the country looking for a child then you could sit in prison a long
long
time, or even better and cheaper be dealt with accordingly.


Is not pedophila the national industry of thailand?

wrote in message
oups.com...
Tuuk wrote:
Sure, I can elaborate.

By publicly allowing foreigners to come in and rape your children is
wrong.
If the country wants to stop it, it must come down hard on those who
do it.
By implementing very tough laws will send a strong message to the
public
globally that this is not going to be allowed anymore and if you do
come to
the country looking for a child then you could sit in prison a long
long
time, or even better and cheaper be dealt with accordingly.


Is not pedophila the national industry of thailand?

No.
But ripping-off potential stupid sex-tourist like you is.
And check your dictionary before writing words you don't understand:
Paedophilia.
Cheers
Daniel

Chris Blunt wrote:

The same way that any other law is enforced. It doesn't require a
policeman outside every house to enforce other laws, so why would it
require that to investigate pedophiles?

If prosecution of those involved with sexually abusing children is the
real aim, I'd say its a whole lot easier to investigate offenders
permanently living in a country and regularly abusing kids than those
who fly in out of the blue for a few days. Not that I'm suggesting
that visitors should be excluded, the law should be applied equally to
all.


it doesn't really matter what you say, the facts on the ground remain
what they are... how do you imagine the "vast majority" of sexual abuse
cases get investigated, considering that they involve family members
etc...??? your notion of what is doable in law enforcement is based on
what? sneaky abusing dads easier to investigate than travelling
paedophile johns? get a clue...

For some strange reason, you appear to believe that the law on sexual
offenses against children should not apply to local people in
Cambodia. You say "they get taken care of within "treatment"
modalities rather than the system of criminal law most of the time".

it was you who went on about how at least "we" do something about sexual
abuse in our cultures... what we do "in the vast majority of cases" is
related to treatment of one kind or another... again, this is not my
opinion... it's what goes on... i didn't imply that the law on sexual
abuse shouldn't apply to locals; i just pointed out that in the "vast
majority of cases", law enforcement isn't usually involved in our
cultures and is practically useless anyway where "family secrets" are
involved....

In practice that means getting away with it and remaining free to
abuse more children.

in practice, that's what goes on in those western cultures you applaud
for "doing something"... is any of this getting through yet?

What's so wrong with using the legal system? Look
at the trial that opened last week in France with 66 people charged
with pedophile offenses.

what makes you think there were any "family-type" abuse cases involved
in this trial?... it is a paedophile ring being tried, not a group of
diddling dads... just the kind of thing paedophile sex tourists are
involved in in cambodia... that's why the oldest child involved in the
case is 14... above and beyond that, it's hard to establish that you're
dealing with paedophilia, which, regardless of your insistence, is not
the same thing, legally or clinically, as sex abuse... sorry...

your concern for poor white men flying the world to **** kids is noted
and obvious, regardless of your little disclaimers... i would suggest
that you do some reading about the field, but wouldn't want to
exacerbate tendencies that are clearly already there... have a good day...


michael

On Mon, 07 Mar 2005 15:07:16 GMT, michael wrote:

it doesn't really matter what you say, the facts on the ground remain
what they are... how do you imagine the "vast majority" of sexual abuse
cases get investigated, considering that they involve family members
etc...??? your notion of what is doable in law enforcement is based on
what? sneaky abusing dads easier to investigate than travelling
paedophile johns? get a clue...

So now we only believe what you say, would you mind enlightening us
regarding your qualifications, as you seem to believe that only your
opinion matters. Obviously you must have a professional expertise in
this area.

For some strange reason, you appear to believe that the law on sexual
offenses against children should not apply to local people in
Cambodia. You say "they get taken care of within "treatment"
modalities rather than the system of criminal law most of the time".

it was you who went on about how at least "we" do something about sexual
abuse in our cultures... what we do "in the vast majority of cases" is
related to treatment of one kind or another... again, this is not my
opinion... it's what goes on... i didn't imply that the law on sexual
abuse shouldn't apply to locals; i just pointed out that in the "vast
majority of cases", law enforcement isn't usually involved in our
cultures and is practically useless anyway where "family secrets" are
involved....

In practice that means getting away with it and remaining free to
abuse more children.

in practice, that's what goes on in those western cultures you applaud
for "doing something"... is any of this getting through yet?

Still on the personal abuse trail, another sign of a weak argument.
Does the term "Shoot the messenger" sound familiar to you?

What's so wrong with using the legal system? Look
at the trial that opened last week in France with 66 people charged
with pedophile offenses.

what makes you think there were any "family-type" abuse cases involved
in this trial?... it is a paedophile ring being tried, not a group of
diddling dads... just the kind of thing paedophile sex tourists are
involved in in cambodia... that's why the oldest child involved in the
case is 14... above and beyond that, it's hard to establish that you're
dealing with paedophilia, which, regardless of your insistence, is not
the same thing, legally or clinically, as sex abuse... sorry...

your concern for poor white men flying the world to **** kids is noted
and obvious, regardless of your little disclaimers... i would suggest
that you do some reading about the field, but wouldn't want to
exacerbate tendencies that are clearly already there... have a good day...

I have seen nothing in Chris's posts to indicate that he supports
white pedophiles, only your insinuations to bolster you own weak
arguments. You're still trying to shoot the messenger & ignore his
real life experience as opposed to your armchair arguments I'm
inclined to put you in the category of sophisticated troller, but
still just another troller..

John L.

Nomen Nescio wrote:
Is its
motivation actually to eliminate a very real problem, or to simply maximize
its funding to support itself?


somewhere inbetween those two....

John L wrote:

So now we only believe what you say, would you mind enlightening us
regarding your qualifications, as you seem to believe that only your
opinion matters. Obviously you must have a professional expertise in
this area.


as i have already said, i spent 8 years working with abused children of
all varieties... never once met a victim of child prostitution though...
when i suggest that the kind of "general sexual abuse" that Chris is on
about is so widespread and nearly impossible to "go after", i am not
expressing an opinion...

http://canada.justice.gc.ca/en/ps/fm/childafs.html

read the section entitled "how widespread is ..."

and if anyone cannot see a difference between the varieties of
incestuous and "someone known to the child" forms of sexual abuse and
what goes on in cambodian brothels, they should read this

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4038249


law enforcement does nothing to prevent "the vast majority" (Chris's
terminology) of sexual abuse cases... in fact, we usually have to wait
years or even decades before we even know about its occurence...

this is absolutely not the case with child prostitution, child
pornography or paedophile rings... law enforcement can be very effective
here, which is why targeting foreign paedophiles makes good sense in a
place like cambodia... to suggest otherwise is either idiocy or an
indirect attempt to shield these people from the law... i suspect in
Chris's case its a little bit of both, plus a kind of neurotic
resentment of NGOs...

anyone who thinks that making such a statement invalidates my opinion is
welcome to their opinion... one way or the other, it doesn't change the
reality we're discussing...


michael