"Americans not getting bang for buck in Europe"

"nick" wrote in message . ..
Agree about London. but add New York to that list.
esp. JFK airport.



Yeah, I guess we could argue whether Newark or NY is the anus of the
US but
I think London gets it for Europe.

Many Europeans go to NY the first trip and think they are seeing the
US. It really is an international cess pool and the least typical of
any place in the US.



"PJ O'Donovan" wrote in message om...
Earl Evleth wrote in message ...
On 7/02/04 17:42, in article ,
"Sjoerd" wrote:

The day AA flight from Boston to London was only about a quarter filled.
This is a great flight, less than 6 hours and one does not lose a night`s
sleep.
Earl

Best way to get to Europe from the states. We usually layover at
London airport hotel, then fly to continent next morning. No reason to
spend any time in London IMO, Lousy weather, lousy food, lousy
overpriced accommodations with a
high incidence of surly unhappy people. I avoid it as I try to avoid
Newark NJ here for the same reasons. Also try to avoid anywhere in CA
where the weather can be OK but the hi incidence of surly or crazy
people in this land of fruits and nuts coupled with exhorbitant prices
for the discomfort of being there dictates avoidance for this world
traveller.

For what it is worth after 30+ years world travel, at least every six
months per
year on both business and pleasure, I find Australia and Australians
magnificent. Austria with the Austrians more laid back and less
impressed with themselves than the Germans brings Austria to the top
of my list and not to forget Bella Italia with their superb food,
beautiful people, a language that is musical to my ear coupled with
the history and usually good, sunny weather. Of course I love the
rolling green hills and the people and food of Mother Ireland but my
ancestry probably has something to do with my love of it.

Those that disagree can feel free to flame away.

"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote in message ...
Padraig Breathnach wrote:

(PJ O'Donovan) wrote:

"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote in message ...

As are those of the right-wing bigots! (Ithought I'd put you in my
"kill-file" - how did you show up again?)

Typical left wing zealot. "Freedom of speech" applies only to the
disciples of
unworkable Marxist dogma while those who do not agree should be
demonized and gagged.

Freedom of speech does not mean that you have the right to be listened
to.

This asshole insists upon calling me a Marxist, despite the fact that I
come from a long line of Republicans, and only switched allegiance when
I realized what the "Grand Old Party" had become, and what it was doing
to the country! (Oh well, one must consider the source - what can you
expect of the brainwashed?)



Your anecdotal discharge above is irrelevant.

I come from a long line of Democrats and only switched allegiance when
I realized what the "useful idiots" with their creeping Marxism in
the democratic party had become and what it was doing to the country.

On 9/02/04 1:36, in article ,
"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote:



Mxsmanic wrote:

Gregory Morrow writes:

No. The US does not have VAT.

Yes, it does, but the U.S. calls it sales tax or excise tax. It is
_far_ lower than the VAT in most of Europe, though.

But the U.S. does not have any NATIONAL sales tax! That is the
prerogative of the states. Not all of them have sales tax, the rates
and even the range of items taxed differ from state to state. In
California, food is exempt - but not restaurant food - and clothing is
taxable. Some states do not tax clothing OR food, some tax everything.
Figuring what refund foreign visitors were entitled to would be a
logistics nightmare, even given superlative computer programs (which I'm
sure we do not have). Then the question arises "Who should be eligible
for refund?" - if visitors from another country, why not visitors from
another state? (Especially from states who do not have sales tax?) I
question your "far lower" statement, Mix - parts of California now pay
8.75%, and it may well go up, given our horrendous state deficit and an
ex-body-builder for governor. There are other states with sales tax as
high, perhaps higher. What are the normal VAT rates?


In Europe they vary too. In France there are two levels of TVA taxation,
the 19.6% is standard but some items have a much lower rate. The tax is
also applied to services. The Government will apply lower rates for special
reasons if it can. For instance building and home repairs are taxed at
5.6%, which was done to stimulate repairs and get around the fact that a lot
of black market labor is used in the home repair business. For instance,
having one`s apartment painted but a "good amateur" can cost a lot more
(a half to a third) of a commercial rate. Minor electrical and plumbing work
is often done "under the table". Books have a 5.6% taxation. Chirac
promised a 5.6% on restaurant meals but this has not gotten by the
European commission.

European TVA taxes mostly run in the upper "teens", between 16-20%. In
France a large portion of the Government revenue is collected using TVA
taxes and not income taxes. As a consequence, French income taxes
are not high for the lower and middle income groups. In France
one does not constantly complain about high taxes to the same degree
as in the US. Indeed, if one does not consume, one is not taxed.
Lower level savings are encouraged via low taxation (nothing on a
Livret A postal account). This may be one of the reasons why
the French saving rate is around 15% of income, compared to between
0-4% in the USA.

Earl

On 9/02/04 2:55, in article ,
"Padraig Breathnach" wrote:

Freedom of speech does not mean that you have the right to be listened
to.

This asshole insists upon calling me a Marxist, despite the fact that I
come from a long line of Republicans, and only switched allegiance when
I realized what the "Grand Old Party" had become, and what it was doing
to the country! (Oh well, one must consider the source - what can you
expect of the brainwashed?)

You're listening to him!


Clearly, the internet has become the biggest distributor of "free speech" in
the history of man.

We can chose what we wish to read, the spectrum of opinions are larger that
one finds in the press (somewhat controlled by large economic entities)
or TV). The drawback is that a lot of opinions are "off the top of the
head", not thought out and often enough not supported by the facts. However
the web does allow one to rapidly inform one`s self.

So we are in a sort of golden age period which is only about 10-15 years
old.

Earl

Earl Evleth wrote in message ...
On 8/02/04 17:12, in article
, "PJ O'Donovan"
wrote:

More exactly the US does not have a VAT but the individual states
have sales taxes and some cities on top of this. There are also
specific tourist taxes on hotels.

But these taxes on the "rich" will never be enough
to placate the Marxist mentality until all are poor, suffering
together.

Certainly you are ranting! The rich of America are under taxed with regard
to the benefits they get from the economic system. For instance in the
1970-2000 period almost all of the after tax income improvement has gone to
the top 5%. I hope you are aware of the statistics on this fact?

Earl


In the US, the top 10% of income earners pay 65% of FIT, while the
lower 90% pay 35%. The top 1% pay 35%. I hope you are aware of the
statistics on this fact?

Naturally, any reduction in tax will benefit those that pay the tax
and will not benefit the many who pay no or little tax. Otherwise it
becomes a subsidy and should be called what it is

From each according to ability to pay to each according to need is the
time tested unworkable Marxist approach in the futile attempt to
transfer wealth from the successful to the less so by government
coercion and is the essence of Marxism. In the US this class warfare
merely serves to buy votes for democrats in the political process.

Considering the fact that the "rich" are already absorbing an
inordinate portion
of the burden of the cost of this thing called government, how much
Marxist progressivity in the FIT code does it take to placate the
Marxist?

On 9/02/04 10:15, in article
, "PJ O'Donovan"
wrote:

Yeah, I guess we could argue whether Newark or NY is the anus of the
US but I think London gets it for Europe.

Many Europeans go to NY the first trip and think they are seeing the
US. It really is an international cess pool and the least typical of
any place in the US.


Old airports have problems. We have attempted to avoid JFK is possible
and in fact have not used it in years. We have used Boston recently
since the Boston-London day flight is OK and we stay overnight
at a nearby Holiday Inn which offers "low rates" if one reserves two
weeks before (without a right to cancel, a guaranteed reservation).`

London Heathrow allows for a rapid trip into the city on the Express.
We landed at 8.20PM Thursday and were into London by 9 PM, bags and all,
to the hotel shortly after and in the pub well before 10 PM. The bad
part is the long distance between deplaning and going through passport
control, a good 10 minute hike, but needed after a long period
on the plane. Our bags were ready to pick up when we got to baggage
pickup. On the other hand, getting into Paris from CDG is much slower.

Transportation into NYC from JFK has never been great.

Next, NYC is international but a cess pool? It is possibly the most
cosmopolitan place in the US but we heard a lot of foreign accents
(besides Spanish) in south Florida! NYC is constantly reinventing itself
so its foreign mix changes with time, but it has nearly always
had a foreign mix. The last time we were there we had a long
conversation with our taxi driver, in French. He was from Haiti.

Ironically NYC has one of the lowest urban crime rates in the USA,
NYC is lower than the States of Texas or Florida.

One of our Dutch friends flew with a group to hear a Bruce Springsteen
concert in NY last June, he loved the place.

We have a number of authentic NY friends. They have a particular
way of doing things, you can always tell a New Yorker but never tell
him much! I like the place but detest JFK.

Earl

On 9/02/04 11:00, in article
, "PJ O'Donovan"
wrote:

In the US, the top 10% of income earners pay 65% of FIT, while the
lower 90% pay 35%. The top 1% pay 35%. I hope you are aware of the
statistics on this fact?

You only look at it one way, taxes taxes taxes.

They have gotten nearly all off the income improvement and are coming
out way ahead on the "deal". The nation has gone plutocratic.

Considering the fact that the "rich" are already absorbing an
inordinate portion --

Less and less, in fact. The nation has gone into a neoconservative
"borrow and spend" mode. Clearly the idea that the current situation
is in a soak the rich mode is self-serving. It is one of those
fictions that people like yourself live by.

Earl

Keith Anderson wrote in message . ..
On Sun, 8 Feb 2004 18:10:55 -0000, "nick" wrote:

I'd actually settle for a democratic socialist. I'm a big fan of Tony
Benn.

Socialism aint very democratic After all its the first stage of communism, the final
stage being dictatorship.

OK, change the words to Social Democracy - I'll settle for that.

Much prefer it to global corporatism which is Robin Hood in reverse -
rob the poor to feed the rich.


"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic
system for the exploitation of the economically weak,.... and we are
determined to destroy this system under all conditions." --

--Adolf Hitler qouted in a speech by the noted Historian, John Toland
in his
biography "Adolf Hitler", pg 306.

The Historian

"Miles" wrote in message
news:fNyVb.26018$tP1.11256@fed1read07...


Gregory Morrow wrote:

No. The US does not have VAT.

The only way I know of for foreigners to avoid USA taxes on goods is to
buy them at a duty free shop at a border or airport. The other way is
to buy from a USA mail-order firm and have it shipped. In most cases
there will be no tax added.

I believe there are zillions of (typically larger) shops in USA which offer
tax refund services

(PJ O'Donovan) wrote:

Keith Anderson wrote in message . ..
On Sun, 8 Feb 2004 18:10:55 -0000, "nick" wrote:

I'd actually settle for a democratic socialist. I'm a big fan of Tony
Benn.

Socialism aint very democratic After all its the first stage of communism, the final
stage being dictatorship.

OK, change the words to Social Democracy - I'll settle for that.

Much prefer it to global corporatism which is Robin Hood in reverse -
rob the poor to feed the rich.


"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic
system for the exploitation of the economically weak,.... and we are
determined to destroy this system under all conditions." --

--Adolf Hitler qouted in a speech by the noted Historian, John Toland
in his
biography "Adolf Hitler", pg 306.

What, if anything, does that prove?

--
PB
The return address has been MUNGED