Times/edit.: Network Rail and train companies are fleecing passengers

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 21:59:29 GMT The Doctor
said...

Nor does anyone have a *right* to purchase a VV or similar discounted ticket
for any particular train

Agreed. People often come to my window *expecting* to get an AP ticket
for travel on a Friday and go away rather disappointed when I explain
the quota wasn't there in the first place!

What all trains on a Friday or just say a few at peak times? Surely by
applying some sales tactics by offering alternatives (different times at
a good price vs. a higher price at the customer's preferred time) might
lead to a booking?

--
Phil Richards
London, UK
Home page: http://www.philrichards1.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 21:58:57 GMT The Doctor
said...

This is nothing new, and the reason isn't always due to engineering work
as the TOCs send out their data to stations around 10-14 days beforehand
in most cases.

It's high time the TOCs put pressure on their suppliers (Network Rail) to
come up with confirmed timings far more in advance than just a few days.
Eurostar for example, last month released ticket sales the entire winter
2004/5 season for their direct ski train. In other words you could buy
tickets with confirmed timings (agreed not just by Network Rail, but Euro
Tunnel & SNCF as well) for travel in almost 9 months time.

The norm on the continent is to be able to book seats two months in
advance, some trains go on sale three months before.

Quite why the media have 'suddenly' picked up on something that's been
going on for at least 10 years I don't know.

The consumer is more demanding nowadays. Certainly they are attracted to
lower cost advance purchase fares through active marketing techniques
which are then thrown down the drain all because the timetable planners
haven't yet agreed to "finalised timings".

--
Phil Richards
London, UK
Home page: http://www.philrichards1.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 21:58:57 GMT The Doctor
said...

This is nothing new, and the reason isn't always due to engineering work
as the TOCs send out their data to stations around 10-14 days beforehand
in most cases.

It's high time the TOCs put pressure on their suppliers (Network Rail) to
come up with confirmed timings far more in advance than just a few days.
Eurostar for example, last month released ticket sales the entire winter
2004/5 season for their direct ski train. In other words you could buy
tickets with confirmed timings (agreed not just by Network Rail, but Euro
Tunnel & SNCF as well) for travel in almost 9 months time.

The norm on the continent is to be able to book seats two months in
advance, some trains go on sale three months before.

Quite why the media have 'suddenly' picked up on something that's been
going on for at least 10 years I don't know.

The consumer is more demanding nowadays. Certainly they are attracted to
lower cost advance purchase fares through active marketing techniques
which are then thrown down the drain all because the timetable planners
haven't yet agreed to "finalised timings".

--
Phil Richards
London, UK
Home page: http://www.philrichards1.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

Neil Williams wrote:

On 24 Aug 2004 01:04:15 -0700, (Sufaud) wrote:

Faced with the public outcry at the exorbitant prices charged for rail
fares bought at a station for travel on the day, rail companies point
to the huge savings possible by booking ahead. An open return to
Manchester now costs £182, whereas a ticket booked well in advance can
cost as little as £22. But those hoping to take the train during the
coming Bank Holiday face a rude shock: some companies are refusing to
sell cheap tickets because, they say, they do not know how the
engineering works will affect the timetable. Anyone wanting to travel
during the holiday period will have to pay prices that are way above
most people's budget.

That is clearly badly-worded. Certainly during the weekend, there is
no reason why *anyone* should have to pay £182 for a SOR, as SVRs are
rather a lot cheaper (~50 quid) and available all day.

Also, you are not able to buy the £22 ticket during the peak times the
£182 ticket is valid. If you're willing to travel via Chesterfield, then
the cost can go down dramatically anyway. Also, a bank holiday would
usually have been sold out by now for the value fares- anyone booking at
this time would be in for a 'rude shock' if they were expecting such a
fare!

None of this excuses the mess which is the UK's rail pricing structure.

David

--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

Neil Williams wrote:

On 24 Aug 2004 01:04:15 -0700, (Sufaud) wrote:

Faced with the public outcry at the exorbitant prices charged for rail
fares bought at a station for travel on the day, rail companies point
to the huge savings possible by booking ahead. An open return to
Manchester now costs £182, whereas a ticket booked well in advance can
cost as little as £22. But those hoping to take the train during the
coming Bank Holiday face a rude shock: some companies are refusing to
sell cheap tickets because, they say, they do not know how the
engineering works will affect the timetable. Anyone wanting to travel
during the holiday period will have to pay prices that are way above
most people's budget.

That is clearly badly-worded. Certainly during the weekend, there is
no reason why *anyone* should have to pay £182 for a SOR, as SVRs are
rather a lot cheaper (~50 quid) and available all day.

Also, you are not able to buy the £22 ticket during the peak times the
£182 ticket is valid. If you're willing to travel via Chesterfield, then
the cost can go down dramatically anyway. Also, a bank holiday would
usually have been sold out by now for the value fares- anyone booking at
this time would be in for a 'rude shock' if they were expecting such a
fare!

None of this excuses the mess which is the UK's rail pricing structure.

David

--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

"Phil Richards" wrote in message
T...
On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 21:59:29 GMT The Doctor
said...

Nor does anyone have a *right* to purchase a VV or similar discounted
ticket
for any particular train

Agreed. People often come to my window *expecting* to get an AP ticket
for travel on a Friday and go away rather disappointed when I explain
the quota wasn't there in the first place!

What all trains on a Friday or just say a few at peak times? Surely by
applying some sales tactics by offering alternatives (different times at
a good price vs. a higher price at the customer's preferred time) might
lead to a booking?

They may well find that by offering discount tickets on trains at unpopular
times they can shift some passengers from overcrowded peak trains.
Peter

"Phil Richards" wrote in message
T...
On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 21:59:29 GMT The Doctor
said...

Nor does anyone have a *right* to purchase a VV or similar discounted
ticket
for any particular train

Agreed. People often come to my window *expecting* to get an AP ticket
for travel on a Friday and go away rather disappointed when I explain
the quota wasn't there in the first place!

What all trains on a Friday or just say a few at peak times? Surely by
applying some sales tactics by offering alternatives (different times at
a good price vs. a higher price at the customer's preferred time) might
lead to a booking?

They may well find that by offering discount tickets on trains at unpopular
times they can shift some passengers from overcrowded peak trains.
Peter

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 08:20:36 +0100 David Horne=20
said...

Also, you are not able to buy the =A322 ticket during the peak times the
=A3182 ticket is valid. If you're willing to travel via Chesterfield, the=
n
the cost can go down dramatically anyway.=20

Then sales staff should advise customers not in the know these points. It=
=20
seems that staff will respond to what's asked for and leave it at that=20
rather than being a bit more pro-active and offer alternative solutions.

Also, a bank holiday would usually have been sold out by now for the
value fares- anyone booking at this time would be in for a 'rude shock'
if they were expecting such a fare!

Not so much sold out, but the quotas were never there in the first place!=
=20
The reasons given in the original article ia because the supplier=20
(Network Rail) can't confirm their part of the deal (i.e. finalised=20
timings) to the TOCs. In turn the TOCs can't release the seats for sale=20
to the public otherwise you'll have chaos on hands if departure timings=20
vary to that shown on tickets. By the time everything is finalised the=20
booking horizon for these cheap fares has elapsed and therefore the=20
products would never be available.

--=20
Phil Richards
London, UK
Home page: http://www.philrichards1.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 07:41:43 +0000 (UTC) Peter Masson
said...

What all trains on a Friday or just say a few at peak times? Surely by
applying some sales tactics by offering alternatives (different times at
a good price vs. a higher price at the customer's preferred time) might
lead to a booking?

They may well find that by offering discount tickets on trains at unpopular
times they can shift some passengers from overcrowded peak trains.

That's the idea behind yield management. However selling skills in
offering alternatives are important too.

--
Phil Richards
London, UK
Home page: http://www.philrichards1.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 07:41:43 +0000 (UTC) Peter Masson
said...

What all trains on a Friday or just say a few at peak times? Surely by
applying some sales tactics by offering alternatives (different times at
a good price vs. a higher price at the customer's preferred time) might
lead to a booking?

They may well find that by offering discount tickets on trains at unpopular
times they can shift some passengers from overcrowded peak trains.

That's the idea behind yield management. However selling skills in
offering alternatives are important too.

--
Phil Richards
London, UK
Home page: http://www.philrichards1.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk