Australia vacation help needed

The Ghan is scheduled for the third trip (at a stretch, the fourth :-)
The second is strictly Northern Australia, going east to west and ending
up in Darwin.

You do know the Ghan now goes to Darwin, just under a century after it was
promised in the first place?


Checked out those folks you put me onto, and they have
some very interesting tours, definitely worth looking into. One from
Cairns across to Darwin, then Darwin down to Alice Springs; fly to
Broome,

I didn't like Broome at all. Overpriced (lots of pearl money), overhyped,
and full of ferals waiting to go down the GRR. However, like your hotel
experience in Adelaide, my impressions may have been coloured by a rip-off
Toyota dealership and a quarreling backpacker couple who spent the night in
a drunken rage while I sweated away the 90% humidity night....




Now find a way to Thursday Island, and fill in a few other places...

Adelaide surprises me as your favourite city. I liked Glenelg, at least
the beach (the camels tho' looked a bit tired) but found little of
Adelaide to rave about. Maybe three days wasn't enough? Hmmm.

Not by a long shot. First time around, I would have agreed with you.
Adelaide bills itself as the "largest country town in Australia," which to
my mind is more appropriate than the "festival" slogan on the license
plates. If you're a come-from-away just passing through, you won't pierce
the shell and it will come across as the Land of Wowsers. Dig a little
deeper and you will find the friendliest people in Australia, where you
don't have to work 90 hours a week just to meet the mortgage (although that
changed quite a bit in just a year), and there's a genuineness you will see
in few other places (and that's saying quite a lot in WYSIWYG-dominant
Australia). Of course, the fact that 20 minutes from the centre will put
you on the edge of bushland probably makes me a tad biased....

Raffi Balmanoukian a
wrote in
news:BDB9AD1D.283BA%walkabout@TAKEOUTTHETRASHTOREP LY.ns.sympatico.ca:


The Ghan is scheduled for the third trip (at a stretch, the fourth
:-) The second is strictly Northern Australia, going east to west and
ending up in Darwin.

You do know the Ghan now goes to Darwin, just under a century after it
was promised in the first place?


Yes, but pretty much non-stop, right? I'd kinda like to see Tennant
Creek and Katherine and other places along the way (which if we take
those safaris, we will get a chance to see). Also the Ghan is pretty
expensive from what I hear. It's the thing to do I think if you're
travelling with a lot of people and just want to go from A to D.

Checked out those folks you put me onto, and they have
some very interesting tours, definitely worth looking into. One from
Cairns across to Darwin, then Darwin down to Alice Springs; fly to
Broome,

I didn't like Broome at all. Overpriced (lots of pearl money),
overhyped, and full of ferals waiting to go down the GRR. However,
like your hotel experience in Adelaide, my impressions may have been
coloured by a rip-off Toyota dealership and a quarreling backpacker
couple who spent the night in a drunken rage while I sweated away the
90% humidity night....

I'm not so much looking forward to Broome as I am starting out on the
last leg of the northern over-land trip (Kimberleys etc). Having read
the Durack book about the cattle barons (Kings in Grass Castles) it
would be nice to see the country itself.


Adelaide surprises me as your favourite city. I liked Glenelg, at
least the beach (the camels tho' looked a bit tired) but found little
of Adelaide to rave about. Maybe three days wasn't enough? Hmmm.

Not by a long shot. First time around, I would have agreed with you.
Adelaide bills itself as the "largest country town in Australia,"
which to my mind is more appropriate than the "festival" slogan on the
license plates. If you're a come-from-away just passing through, you
won't pierce the shell and it will come across as the Land of Wowsers.
Dig a little deeper and you will find the friendliest people in
Australia, where you don't have to work 90 hours a week just to meet
the mortgage (although that changed quite a bit in just a year), and
there's a genuineness you will see in few other places (and that's
saying quite a lot in WYSIWYG-dominant Australia). Of course, the
fact that 20 minutes from the centre will put you on the edge of
bushland probably makes me a tad biased....

We liked the pedestrian walk-way (Rundle Mall) a lot; the pig sculptures
- totally unexpected - were a riot. The city's architecture was
interesting as well. However, I thought their botanical garden was the
least impressive in the cities we visited (Sydney, Melbourne, Perth,
Adelaide). The water fountain in Victoria Square was 'contemporary' and
interesting (you can see how I'm *trying* to be nice :-)

It was the weekend of some auto race as well, and the whole area south
of the Botanical Gardens was overrun by the black-leather, beer-swilling
crowd. Just another reason to pack up and flee for Glenelg for the last
2-3 days. The beach was quite nice, and our motel had a beer store,
drive-in beer store in fact (for those who enjoy drink driving?) so we
did relax for the last few days.

We did hit on a very good store in Adelaide - on King William St. I
think - selling Aborigine art work and came away with a little gem.

To be honest I'll have to give Adelaide one more chance I suppose...

in article , Richard at
wrote on 11/12/04 11:08 AM:

Yes, but pretty much non-stop, right? I'd kinda like to see Tennant
Creek and Katherine and other places along the way (which if we take
those safaris, we will get a chance to see). Also the Ghan is pretty
expensive from what I hear. It's the thing to do I think if you're
travelling with a lot of people and just want to go from A to D.

All good points but I'd suggest taking it anyway - it's an experience and
gives you a bit of a Kellogg's-variety-pack of the whole bisection in aircon
comfort. Then you can go south from Darwin to do the things you want.
C'mon, I thought Trains were a Canadian genetic thing!!



We liked the pedestrian walk-way (Rundle Mall) a lot; the pig sculptures
- totally unexpected - were a riot. The city's architecture was
interesting as well. However, I thought their botanical garden was the
least impressive in the cities we visited (Sydney, Melbourne, Perth,
Adelaide). The water fountain in Victoria Square was 'contemporary' and
interesting (you can see how I'm *trying* to be nice :-)

I like the fact that ADL is easy to navigate ( you don't get much more basic
than North, South, East, and West Terraces with radials off of them); as a
Maritimer, I can relate entirely to the "there's a shield if you're just
passing through, or we're the nicest blokes in the world if you're
interested in getting to know us" motif that I took away from the region.
The bits like trams, buskers, Port Adelaide, probably the best (legitimate)
opal buys in the country, accessibility to local plonk, and good cheap eats
that don't make a big show of it are also right up there. Then again, I was
also looking with a different eye (one more Quebec referendum and I'm outa
here) and what you could get for $200K in ADL would easily be $500 in
Melbourne and $700 in Sydney.



It was the weekend of some auto race as well, and the whole area south
of the Botanical Gardens was overrun by the black-leather, beer-swilling
crowd.

This quite likely has something to do with your verdict. Any massive
blowout will skew the sample of a place - whether its a grand prix or the
Henley-on-Todd.



We did hit on a very good store in Adelaide - on King William St. I
think - selling Aborigine art work and came away with a little gem.

I'm partial to BHQ and the galleries at Mt. Ebenezer and on the Tanami for
that. AYQ is ripoff city in that regard.

To be honest I'll have to give Adelaide one more chance I suppose...

Seriously - the longer the better. Short term and you will probably come
away the same as I have after whirlwind passthroughs of Toronto. Point
taken?

Raffi Balmanoukian a
wrote in
news:BDBACC58.283DE%walkabout@TAKEOUTTHETRASHTOREP LY.ns.sympatico.ca:

....

All good points but I'd suggest taking it anyway - it's an experience
and gives you a bit of a Kellogg's-variety-pack of the whole bisection
in aircon comfort. Then you can go south from Darwin to do the things
you want. C'mon, I thought Trains were a Canadian genetic thing!!

Trains a Canadian thing? Mebbe once, but damn if I'd sit for a trip out
to the west coast, or even your end of the world, on a train if there's
other transport. I even resisted taking any trains in Australia, except
local (Freo, Subiaco etc). But I've heard a bit about the Ghan and am
tempted, although the price is very high.


I like the fact that ADL is easy to navigate ( you don't get much more
basic than North, South, East, and West Terraces with radials off of
them); as a Maritimer, I can relate entirely to the "there's a shield
if you're just passing through, or we're the nicest blokes in the
world if you're interested in getting to know us" motif that I took
away from the region. The bits like trams, buskers, Port Adelaide,
probably the best (legitimate) opal buys in the country, accessibility
to local plonk, and good cheap eats that don't make a big show of it
are also right up there. Then again, I was also looking with a
different eye (one more Quebec referendum and I'm outa here) and what
you could get for $200K in ADL would easily be $500 in Melbourne and
$700 in Sydney.

Things were definitely cheaper there, and the restaurants weren't all
that bad, but were difficult to find. Past six pm on a weekend, think we
could find anything open? Wound up eating in an *authentic* Chinese
restaurant (only clientel were Asian) and had a great meal. Only place
open in mid-town.

It was the weekend of some auto race as well, and the whole area
south of the Botanical Gardens was overrun by the black-leather,
beer-swilling crowd.

This quite likely has something to do with your verdict. Any massive
blowout will skew the sample of a place - whether its a grand prix or
the Henley-on-Todd.

Agreed, although the grand prix in Melbourne - which happened to
coincide with our arrival first week in March - didn't turn us off that
city. Truth is, I could move there tomorrow and not skip a 'cultural
beat', really felt fine staying two weeks there.

We did hit on a very good store in Adelaide - on King William St. I
think - selling Aborigine art work and came away with a little gem.

I'm partial to BHQ and the galleries at Mt. Ebenezer and on the Tanami
for that. AYQ is ripoff city in that regard.

I've made notes, in case it ever happens a second time.


To be honest I'll have to give Adelaide one more chance I suppose...

Seriously - the longer the better. Short term and you will probably
come away the same as I have after whirlwind passthroughs of Toronto.
Point taken?

Ah ha, so you finally admit you don't know squat about Hog Town... Worst
thing you can do is just 'pass through', it's quite superficial and
glizzy, like the impression given by most large cities. I live here but
damn if I know the best restaurants, etc, because I don't need to know.

But your point isn't always true. The time we spent in Australia's
largest cities has nothing to do with my reactions: four days in Sydney,
two weeks in Melbourne, a week in Perth, a week in Adelaide. Loved both
Perth and Melbourne - Perth as much for the weather as anything else,
although it's a pretty cool town. Melbourne is the town Toronto would
like to think it is - ethnic and exciting and extremely livable.

Raffi Balmanoukian a
wrote in
news:BDBACC58.283DE%walkabout@TAKEOUTTHETRASHTOREP LY.ns.sympatico.ca:

....

All good points but I'd suggest taking it anyway - it's an experience
and gives you a bit of a Kellogg's-variety-pack of the whole bisection
in aircon comfort. Then you can go south from Darwin to do the things
you want. C'mon, I thought Trains were a Canadian genetic thing!!

Trains a Canadian thing? Mebbe once, but damn if I'd sit for a trip out
to the west coast, or even your end of the world, on a train if there's
other transport. I even resisted taking any trains in Australia, except
local (Freo, Subiaco etc). But I've heard a bit about the Ghan and am
tempted, although the price is very high.


I like the fact that ADL is easy to navigate ( you don't get much more
basic than North, South, East, and West Terraces with radials off of
them); as a Maritimer, I can relate entirely to the "there's a shield
if you're just passing through, or we're the nicest blokes in the
world if you're interested in getting to know us" motif that I took
away from the region. The bits like trams, buskers, Port Adelaide,
probably the best (legitimate) opal buys in the country, accessibility
to local plonk, and good cheap eats that don't make a big show of it
are also right up there. Then again, I was also looking with a
different eye (one more Quebec referendum and I'm outa here) and what
you could get for $200K in ADL would easily be $500 in Melbourne and
$700 in Sydney.

Things were definitely cheaper there, and the restaurants weren't all
that bad, but were difficult to find. Past six pm on a weekend, think we
could find anything open? Wound up eating in an *authentic* Chinese
restaurant (only clientel were Asian) and had a great meal. Only place
open in mid-town.

It was the weekend of some auto race as well, and the whole area
south of the Botanical Gardens was overrun by the black-leather,
beer-swilling crowd.

This quite likely has something to do with your verdict. Any massive
blowout will skew the sample of a place - whether its a grand prix or
the Henley-on-Todd.

Agreed, although the grand prix in Melbourne - which happened to
coincide with our arrival first week in March - didn't turn us off that
city. Truth is, I could move there tomorrow and not skip a 'cultural
beat', really felt fine staying two weeks there.

We did hit on a very good store in Adelaide - on King William St. I
think - selling Aborigine art work and came away with a little gem.

I'm partial to BHQ and the galleries at Mt. Ebenezer and on the Tanami
for that. AYQ is ripoff city in that regard.

I've made notes, in case it ever happens a second time.


To be honest I'll have to give Adelaide one more chance I suppose...

Seriously - the longer the better. Short term and you will probably
come away the same as I have after whirlwind passthroughs of Toronto.
Point taken?

Ah ha, so you finally admit you don't know squat about Hog Town... Worst
thing you can do is just 'pass through', it's quite superficial and
glizzy, like the impression given by most large cities. I live here but
damn if I know the best restaurants, etc, because I don't need to know.

But your point isn't always true. The time we spent in Australia's
largest cities has nothing to do with my reactions: four days in Sydney,
two weeks in Melbourne, a week in Perth, a week in Adelaide. Loved both
Perth and Melbourne - Perth as much for the weather as anything else,
although it's a pretty cool town. Melbourne is the town Toronto would
like to think it is - ethnic and exciting and extremely livable.

in article , Richard at
wrote on 11/12/04 9:30 PM:


local (Freo, Subiaco etc). But I've heard a bit about the Ghan and am
tempted, although the price is very high.

The posted price is, and since I was last in Australia when the Alice-Darwin
stretch was a line on a map and little else, might still be. Posted for
ADL-AYQ is almost higher than you can get with a little planning (not too
much different from airlines, when you come to think of it)'


Things were definitely cheaper there, and the restaurants weren't all
that bad, but were difficult to find. Past six pm on a weekend, think we
could find anything open? Wound up eating in an *authentic* Chinese
restaurant (only clientel were Asian) and had a great meal. Only place
open in mid-town.

Try Henley St., once the scene for the Op-shop crowd, now very....to use
your phrase....liveable.

Locals - especially of the ethnicity from which the cuisine derives - is a
good sign anywhere in the world. I knew I was onto something good in the
Melbourne Pho shop when I found lots of old men playing dominoes. The best
Chinese food I had in Sydney was almost intolerable for the blue cloud of
smoke from like tables....


city. Truth is, I could move there tomorrow and not skip a 'cultural
beat', really felt fine staying two weeks there.


I don't disagree with you about Melbourne, but not being a TO property
owner, could not afford to live there. A fixer-upper (complete with peeling
facade) with a back courtyard about two blocks from the market was on the
block when I was there. I thought, "self, I bet that's a half mil." Looked
it up later. $450K and gone in sixty seconds.

Ah ha, so you finally admit you don't know squat about Hog Town... Worst
thing you can do is just 'pass through', it's quite superficial and
glizzy, like the impression given by most large cities.

I've never especially denied it (it's a maritime thing) but use that as a
means of proving my point. I suspect if one were to spend a bit of time in
TO (or any other large metropolis in the western world), one would scratch
the 'glitzy' veneer and come to know - and love or hate, as the case may be
- a bit of what the place is about. IMHO, ADL has a bit more scratching to
do than most places, precisely because it doesn't try to put on the dog for
those who don't really care about it. If you DO, it will let you in and you
will come to know its charms. If not, well, you will be received politely
and let alone to go about your affairs (not unlike my own little part of the
world, which is yet another bias).


But your point isn't always true. The time we spent in Australia's
largest cities has nothing to do with my reactions: four days in Sydney,
two weeks in Melbourne, a week in Perth, a week in Adelaide. Loved both
Perth and Melbourne - Perth as much for the weather as anything else,
although it's a pretty cool town. Melbourne is the town Toronto would
like to think it is - ethnic and exciting and extremely livable.

I don't disagree about Perth, although its being "a hell of a long way from
anywhere" is a bit of a factor. I also don't disagree about Melbourne
including your comment about ethnicity, but like Sydney it almost tries too
hard (not unlike that whole Toronto-Montreal thingie). Maybe therein lies
the rub: action-reaction. I've heard nothing but negatives from
passers-through about Port Augusta, for example: and having spent more time
there than any other singular place in Australia, have nothing but good to
say about it (aside perhaps from a couple plastered park patrons which you
might find just about anywhere in the world).

in article , Richard at
wrote on 11/12/04 9:30 PM:


local (Freo, Subiaco etc). But I've heard a bit about the Ghan and am
tempted, although the price is very high.

The posted price is, and since I was last in Australia when the Alice-Darwin
stretch was a line on a map and little else, might still be. Posted for
ADL-AYQ is almost higher than you can get with a little planning (not too
much different from airlines, when you come to think of it)'


Things were definitely cheaper there, and the restaurants weren't all
that bad, but were difficult to find. Past six pm on a weekend, think we
could find anything open? Wound up eating in an *authentic* Chinese
restaurant (only clientel were Asian) and had a great meal. Only place
open in mid-town.

Try Henley St., once the scene for the Op-shop crowd, now very....to use
your phrase....liveable.

Locals - especially of the ethnicity from which the cuisine derives - is a
good sign anywhere in the world. I knew I was onto something good in the
Melbourne Pho shop when I found lots of old men playing dominoes. The best
Chinese food I had in Sydney was almost intolerable for the blue cloud of
smoke from like tables....


city. Truth is, I could move there tomorrow and not skip a 'cultural
beat', really felt fine staying two weeks there.


I don't disagree with you about Melbourne, but not being a TO property
owner, could not afford to live there. A fixer-upper (complete with peeling
facade) with a back courtyard about two blocks from the market was on the
block when I was there. I thought, "self, I bet that's a half mil." Looked
it up later. $450K and gone in sixty seconds.

Ah ha, so you finally admit you don't know squat about Hog Town... Worst
thing you can do is just 'pass through', it's quite superficial and
glizzy, like the impression given by most large cities.

I've never especially denied it (it's a maritime thing) but use that as a
means of proving my point. I suspect if one were to spend a bit of time in
TO (or any other large metropolis in the western world), one would scratch
the 'glitzy' veneer and come to know - and love or hate, as the case may be
- a bit of what the place is about. IMHO, ADL has a bit more scratching to
do than most places, precisely because it doesn't try to put on the dog for
those who don't really care about it. If you DO, it will let you in and you
will come to know its charms. If not, well, you will be received politely
and let alone to go about your affairs (not unlike my own little part of the
world, which is yet another bias).


But your point isn't always true. The time we spent in Australia's
largest cities has nothing to do with my reactions: four days in Sydney,
two weeks in Melbourne, a week in Perth, a week in Adelaide. Loved both
Perth and Melbourne - Perth as much for the weather as anything else,
although it's a pretty cool town. Melbourne is the town Toronto would
like to think it is - ethnic and exciting and extremely livable.

I don't disagree about Perth, although its being "a hell of a long way from
anywhere" is a bit of a factor. I also don't disagree about Melbourne
including your comment about ethnicity, but like Sydney it almost tries too
hard (not unlike that whole Toronto-Montreal thingie). Maybe therein lies
the rub: action-reaction. I've heard nothing but negatives from
passers-through about Port Augusta, for example: and having spent more time
there than any other singular place in Australia, have nothing but good to
say about it (aside perhaps from a couple plastered park patrons which you
might find just about anywhere in the world).

Raffi Balmanoukian a
wrote in
news:BDBAF247.28414%walkabout@TAKEOUTTHETRASHTOREP LY.ns.sympatico.ca:


I don't disagree about Perth, although its being "a hell of a long way
from anywhere" is a bit of a factor. I also don't disagree about
Melbourne including your comment about ethnicity, but like Sydney it
almost tries too hard (not unlike that whole Toronto-Montreal
thingie). Maybe therein lies the rub: action-reaction. I've heard
nothing but negatives from passers-through about Port Augusta, for
example: and having spent more time there than any other singular
place in Australia, have nothing but good to say about it (aside
perhaps from a couple plastered park patrons which you might find just
about anywhere in the world).

You know, 'being a hell of a long way from anywhere' didn't seem very
relevant when I was there. It was just a very enjoyable place to be, with
every amenity you could want, including a terrific footy match that the
locals managed to lose by three points, although Sampi had a terrific game.

Port Augusta I only remember from the shopping centre where we filled the
petrol tanks and stocked up on booze and such for our travels across the
Nullarbor. Just like most small places - from Albury to Echuca and then
across the desert to Perth, every place had the essentials of what
Australia was/is - locals that not only give you the time of day, but stay
and chat as long as you like. That was the greatest impact of the country,
people who seemed to enjoy being with strangers and not feeling like they
had to prove anything. One chap stood on the sidewalk for over half an hour
and gave a history of the region to us, fascinating actually, and others -
on buses or on the street - anywhere, were just as accommodating. You won't
find that in TO, more's the pity.

Raffi Balmanoukian a
wrote in
news:BDBAF247.28414%walkabout@TAKEOUTTHETRASHTOREP LY.ns.sympatico.ca:


I don't disagree about Perth, although its being "a hell of a long way
from anywhere" is a bit of a factor. I also don't disagree about
Melbourne including your comment about ethnicity, but like Sydney it
almost tries too hard (not unlike that whole Toronto-Montreal
thingie). Maybe therein lies the rub: action-reaction. I've heard
nothing but negatives from passers-through about Port Augusta, for
example: and having spent more time there than any other singular
place in Australia, have nothing but good to say about it (aside
perhaps from a couple plastered park patrons which you might find just
about anywhere in the world).

You know, 'being a hell of a long way from anywhere' didn't seem very
relevant when I was there. It was just a very enjoyable place to be, with
every amenity you could want, including a terrific footy match that the
locals managed to lose by three points, although Sampi had a terrific game.

Port Augusta I only remember from the shopping centre where we filled the
petrol tanks and stocked up on booze and such for our travels across the
Nullarbor. Just like most small places - from Albury to Echuca and then
across the desert to Perth, every place had the essentials of what
Australia was/is - locals that not only give you the time of day, but stay
and chat as long as you like. That was the greatest impact of the country,
people who seemed to enjoy being with strangers and not feeling like they
had to prove anything. One chap stood on the sidewalk for over half an hour
and gave a history of the region to us, fascinating actually, and others -
on buses or on the street - anywhere, were just as accommodating. You won't
find that in TO, more's the pity.

I have read through most of the responses you recieved, and I'm not sure
you recieved the answers you were looking for.
I am a Travel Agent. I would suggest that you find a local agent and tell
him/her exactly what you wrote in your post.
I think most first timers should take a tour. You get alot more out of
your vacation that way.
The tour guides are excellent, and have a wealth of information. And in
the end, they are a much better value.
I would suggest the following tour companies-Globus, Brendan and ATS South
Pacific. All three of those companies are very reputable and your travel
agent would be able to book them for you. I am currently booking a 3 week
package to the South Pacific for my clients, and We chose Brendan. It is a
very comprehensive tour that highlights all of the MAIN attractions, and
it is within your spending range.