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#1
July 6th, 2004, 11:31 PM
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What do you give up?
Lunyma mentioned being put down for cmplaining while on a fam trip cruise.
I know that I have been admonished that I am a guest and not to squawk but arent' there some pretty easy to see limits? One doesn't compalian about one's cabin when getting a great rate. One doesn't bad mouth the line to other passengers. But what if one is asked, what is you favorite cruise line? does one give up the right to answer truthfully or does one parrot "this ONE!!" I think we owe it to our hosts to be respectfull but if there is a problem it should be resovled for any passenger. As Lunyma said how else can you be sure that your clients will be well served? So how far does civility go? Any ideas? 
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#2
July 7th, 2004, 01:04 AM
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What do you give up?
On 07/06/2004 6:31 PM jcoulter after palpating a Gingko, electronically
interjected: Lunyma mentioned being put down for cmplaining while on a fam trip cruise. I know that I have been admonished that I am a guest and not to squawk but arent' there some pretty easy to see limits? One doesn't compalian about one's cabin when getting a great rate. One doesn't bad mouth the line to other passengers. But what if one is asked, what is you favorite cruise line? does one give up the right to answer truthfully or does one parrot "this ONE!!" I think we owe it to our hosts to be respectfull but if there is a problem it should be resovled for any passenger. As Lunyma said how else can you be sure that your clients will be well served? So how far does civility go? Any ideas? My sister is a TA. I've been her guest both on fam trips and incentive trips. Karen has complained if service is not up to par. She didn't say anything when I wore a Princess windbreaker on a HAL ship. However, I know better than to complain about some of her personal habits in the cabin we share. She likes the drapes open so the sun will wake her in the morning. The sun wakes ME at 5:30 am, while she slumbers until 9:30 am! I just take a nap sometime during the day. Other than that, I'm free to complain or whatever. I have learned to be diplomatic while honest when sitting at the President of her travel company's table. When asked which cruise line I like: "I haven't been on all of them yet, it's too soon to say." or with a real big grin on my face "Whichever one gets me invited back for another free cruise!" ;-) -- ________ To email me, Edit "xt" from my email address. Brian M. Kochera "Some mistakes are too much fun to only make once!" View My Web Page: http://home.earthlink.net/~brian1951
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#3
July 7th, 2004, 02:04 AM
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What do you give up?
Brian K wrote:
snip I have learned to be diplomatic while honest when sitting at the President of her travel company's table. When asked which cruise line I like: "I haven't been on all of them yet, it's too soon to say." or with a real big grin on my face "Whichever one gets me invited back for another free cruise!" ;-) So, in other words, you give up honesty and your own personal integrity in exchange for a free cruise? No, Brian, when a president of a company asks you for your opinion, he/she wants it ... not a cop out, noncommittal answer that doesn't say anything. That's how they improve their business. When I get honest feedback from someone that I have asked to test a product for me, I am sure to ask them again if I need another test. You may want to give that president a thorough report on what you found on the fam trip... even if it is through your sister. That way, the boss knows that it is actually valuable to send her on these trips. Just my $.02 -- Ray Contreras =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Webmonkey for: http://www.ossystems.com http://www.bobs-garage.com http://www.rayzplace.com -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
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#5
July 7th, 2004, 03:00 AM
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What do you give up?
You NEVER give up, or compromise, your integrity! The cruise lines value
honest opinions reflecting both the positive and negative aspects of your cruise experience. They can normally quite easily differentiate between honest opinions and reflections, and simple whining. If there's a problem that you feel can be addressed and remedied onboard you should speak up as it happens, to a person who's in a position to do something about it... so it can be dealt with. All of this is particularly true of travel agents, writers, or others "in the industry". If you keep "your mouth shut", as to not offend, in hopes of being invited back, you're in the wrong field. Regards, Kuki Features Editor http://cruisemates.com Internet Cruise Magazine Fun and Friendship= http://www.cruisemates.com/articles/CMcruise
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#6
July 7th, 2004, 07:35 PM
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What do you give up?
"kuki" wrote in message
news:_OIGc.972436$Pk3.446714@pd7tw1no... You NEVER give up, or compromise, your integrity! The cruise lines value honest opinions reflecting both the positive and negative aspects of your cruise experience. They can normally quite easily differentiate between honest opinions and reflections, and simple whining. If there's a problem that you feel can be addressed and remedied onboard you should speak up as it happens, to a person who's in a position to do something about it... so it can be dealt with. All of this is particularly true of travel agents, writers, or others "in the industry". If you keep "your mouth shut", as to not offend, in hopes of being invited back, you're in the wrong field. Regards, Kuki Features Editor http://cruisemates.com Internet Cruise Magazine Fun and Friendship= http://www.cruisemates.com/articles/CMcruise As a travel writer, this has not always been my experience, nor has it been the experience of Chris Elliott, ombudsman for National Geographic Traveler magazine. He recounts one time back in the old days he was on a press trip to Sandals St. Lucia (another AI of which I've read negative--as well as positive-- reports). It was fraught with difficulties, which he recounted in his article (for another magazine) which the editor decided to publish. Butch Stewart, the owner of the Sandals property, wrote a scathing reply to the editor, dismissing all the negative aspects and pulled all his advertising from that magazine (worth over $1 million). Few travel magazines can afford a hit like that, so the magazine sent another writer down to repair the damage by writing the usual "boy this place is great" article. Stewart then resumed business with the magazine. I was sent on a press trip to Grenada a few years back, also fraught with difficulties: my room was burgled, the music festival I was supposed to cover was completely bungled in ways you can only imagine, and my driver completely flaked out--he ditched me several times including my ride back to the airport. My flight was at 6am so I had to walk 2 miles carrying my bags at 430am. That's always fun--carrying 30# of bags in 80f down dark streets on a Caribbean island well before dawn  I returned home and was faced with this very question: be honest or ignore the tribulations? I discussed it with my wife, a few other writers, and my editor, and they all were of the same opinion as the folks in this thread, so I sent in an honest account but tried to make the whole experience into a comedy of errors rather than the blatant incompetence it actually was. I filed the article and it was never published nor was I paid. Since it was a press trip, my expenses were covered, and professionally there were no hard feelings. In fact, the same editor has sent me back out several times since then, including another Caribbean music festival. So to answer jcoulter's original post, given her situation I would be _diplomatically_ honest if asked faced to face an on-the-spot question, with heavy stress on diplomacy. I want to be a gracious guest, after all--they flew me down, put me up, fed me lobster and shoved rum punches down my throat so I don't want to seem ungrateful. I also agree that the host company would want to know immediately of any problems encountered. Perhaps it comes down to your willingness to pay the price for being honest. Speaking for myself, while I would never lie, the truth wears many faces. Here's that article I mentioned, by Christopher Elliott: http://elliott.org/vault/critic/1998/writers.htm
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#7
July 7th, 2004, 07:35 PM
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What do you give up?
"kuki" wrote in message
news:_OIGc.972436$Pk3.446714@pd7tw1no... You NEVER give up, or compromise, your integrity! The cruise lines value honest opinions reflecting both the positive and negative aspects of your cruise experience. They can normally quite easily differentiate between honest opinions and reflections, and simple whining. If there's a problem that you feel can be addressed and remedied onboard you should speak up as it happens, to a person who's in a position to do something about it... so it can be dealt with. All of this is particularly true of travel agents, writers, or others "in the industry". If you keep "your mouth shut", as to not offend, in hopes of being invited back, you're in the wrong field. Regards, Kuki Features Editor http://cruisemates.com Internet Cruise Magazine Fun and Friendship= http://www.cruisemates.com/articles/CMcruise As a travel writer, this has not always been my experience, nor has it been the experience of Chris Elliott, ombudsman for National Geographic Traveler magazine. He recounts one time back in the old days he was on a press trip to Sandals St. Lucia (another AI of which I've read negative--as well as positive-- reports). It was fraught with difficulties, which he recounted in his article (for another magazine) which the editor decided to publish. Butch Stewart, the owner of the Sandals property, wrote a scathing reply to the editor, dismissing all the negative aspects and pulled all his advertising from that magazine (worth over $1 million). Few travel magazines can afford a hit like that, so the magazine sent another writer down to repair the damage by writing the usual "boy this place is great" article. Stewart then resumed business with the magazine. I was sent on a press trip to Grenada a few years back, also fraught with difficulties: my room was burgled, the music festival I was supposed to cover was completely bungled in ways you can only imagine, and my driver completely flaked out--he ditched me several times including my ride back to the airport. My flight was at 6am so I had to walk 2 miles carrying my bags at 430am. That's always fun--carrying 30# of bags in 80f down dark streets on a Caribbean island well before dawn I returned home and was faced with this very question: be honest or ignore the tribulations? I discussed it with my wife, a few other writers, and my editor, and they all were of the same opinion as the folks in this thread, so I sent in an honest account but tried to make the whole experience into a comedy of errors rather than the blatant incompetence it actually was. I filed the article and it was never published nor was I paid. Since it was a press trip, my expenses were covered, and professionally there were no hard feelings. In fact, the same editor has sent me back out several times since then, including another Caribbean music festival. So to answer jcoulter's original post, given her situation I would be _diplomatically_ honest if asked faced to face an on-the-spot question, with heavy stress on diplomacy. I want to be a gracious guest, after all--they flew me down, put me up, fed me lobster and shoved rum punches down my throat so I don't want to seem ungrateful. I also agree that the host company would want to know immediately of any problems encountered. Perhaps it comes down to your willingness to pay the price for being honest. Speaking for myself, while I would never lie, the truth wears many faces. Here's that article I mentioned, by Christopher Elliott: http://elliott.org/vault/critic/1998/writers.htm
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#8
July 7th, 2004, 07:57 PM
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What do you give up?
On 07/06/2004 10:00 PM kuki after palpating a Gingko, electronically
interjected: You NEVER give up, or compromise, your integrity! The cruise lines value honest opinions reflecting both the positive and negative aspects of your cruise experience. They can normally quite easily differentiate between honest opinions and reflections, and simple whining. If there's a problem that you feel can be addressed and remedied onboard you should speak up as it happens, to a person who's in a position to do something about it... so it can be dealt with. All of this is particularly true of travel agents, writers, or others "in the industry". If you keep "your mouth shut", as to not offend, in hopes of being invited back, you're in the wrong field. Regards, Kuki Features Editor http://cruisemates.com Internet Cruise Magazine Fun and Friendship= http://www.cruisemates.com/articles/CMcruise When I was asked the question as to my favorite cruise ship, I was on my first cruise on any ship. So, in my opinion no integrity was sacrificed when I made the comment that it was too soon for me to say. One can be diplomatic without telling untruths. This is where the typed word even with emoticons looses some of its context. When I said "Whichever one gets me invited back." It was said in jest and the joke was well taken. If I am the guest of my sister or not, I have no problem letting the right people know if my travel experience is less then spectacular. When it is spectacular I write to the appropriate people to let them know how much I enjoyed myself. -- ________ To email me, Edit "xt" from my email address. Brian M. Kochera "Some mistakes are too much fun to only make once!" View My Web Page: http://home.earthlink.net/~brian1951
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#9
July 7th, 2004, 07:57 PM
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What do you give up?
On 07/06/2004 10:00 PM kuki after palpating a Gingko, electronically
interjected: You NEVER give up, or compromise, your integrity! The cruise lines value honest opinions reflecting both the positive and negative aspects of your cruise experience. They can normally quite easily differentiate between honest opinions and reflections, and simple whining. If there's a problem that you feel can be addressed and remedied onboard you should speak up as it happens, to a person who's in a position to do something about it... so it can be dealt with. All of this is particularly true of travel agents, writers, or others "in the industry". If you keep "your mouth shut", as to not offend, in hopes of being invited back, you're in the wrong field. Regards, Kuki Features Editor http://cruisemates.com Internet Cruise Magazine Fun and Friendship= http://www.cruisemates.com/articles/CMcruise When I was asked the question as to my favorite cruise ship, I was on my first cruise on any ship. So, in my opinion no integrity was sacrificed when I made the comment that it was too soon for me to say. One can be diplomatic without telling untruths. This is where the typed word even with emoticons looses some of its context. When I said "Whichever one gets me invited back." It was said in jest and the joke was well taken. If I am the guest of my sister or not, I have no problem letting the right people know if my travel experience is less then spectacular. When it is spectacular I write to the appropriate people to let them know how much I enjoyed myself. -- ________ To email me, Edit "xt" from my email address. Brian M. Kochera "Some mistakes are too much fun to only make once!" View My Web Page: http://home.earthlink.net/~brian1951
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#10
July 7th, 2004, 10:02 PM
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What do you give up?
"Skip Elliott Bowman" wrote:
"kuki" wrote in message news:_OIGc.972436$Pk3.446714@pd7tw1no... You NEVER give up, or compromise, your integrity! The cruise lines value honest opinions reflecting both the positive and negative aspects of your cruise experience. This is a little like the dilemma of the man whose wife says "Does this dress make me look fat?", when it does, or when she is. They can normally quite easily differentiate between honest opinions and reflections, and simple whining. I don't agree that it is quite that easy. There are confounding factors here. Some people whinge persuasively (often by skewing the actual facts), loudly and often, and it may take awhile before someone can penetrate to the other side of the argument and see that an axe is being ground. And by that time the damage may be done. Plus the person in authority who is hearing the complaint may be in denial. (like Mr. Stewart, the Sandals owner, mentioned below) Other factors include the fact that it may be a one time incident which will never be repeated, or a problem which is outside the control of the place involved. For instance, I doubt that the hotel owner would pick to have his guests burgled or left stranded. There are things that can be done to improve the situation such as firing the driver, but the solutions are not always easy fixes or always effective. Especially in the case of burglaries, if the local police do not care to prosecute a case against a poor local who has only stolen from a rich foreigner. If there's a problem that you feel can be addressed and remedied onboard you should speak up as it happens, to a person who's in a position to do something about it... so it can be dealt with. All of this is particularly true of travel agents, writers, or others "in the industry". If you keep "your mouth shut", as to not offend, in hopes of being invited back, you're in the wrong field. Regards, Kuki Features Editor http://cruisemates.com Internet Cruise Magazine Fun and Friendship= http://www.cruisemates.com/articles/CMcruise As a travel writer, this has not always been my experience, nor has it been the experience of Chris Elliott, ombudsman for National Geographic Traveler magazine. He recounts one time back in the old days he was on a press trip to Sandals St. Lucia (another AI of which I've read negative--as well as positive-- reports). It was fraught with difficulties, which he recounted in his article (for another magazine) which the editor decided to publish. Butch Stewart, the owner of the Sandals property, wrote a scathing reply to the editor, dismissing all the negative aspects and pulled all his advertising from that magazine (worth over $1 million). Few travel magazines can afford a hit like that, so the magazine sent another writer down to repair the damage by writing the usual "boy this place is great" article. Stewart then resumed business with the magazine. I was sent on a press trip to Grenada a few years back, also fraught with difficulties: my room was burgled, the music festival I was supposed to cover was completely bungled in ways you can only imagine, and my driver completely flaked out--he ditched me several times including my ride back to the airport. My flight was at 6am so I had to walk 2 miles carrying my bags at 430am. That's always fun--carrying 30# of bags in 80f down dark streets on a Caribbean island well before dawn I returned home and was faced with this very question: be honest or ignore the tribulations? I discussed it with my wife, a few other writers, and my editor, and they all were of the same opinion as the folks in this thread, so I sent in an honest account but tried to make the whole experience into a comedy of errors rather than the blatant incompetence it actually was. I While you had a very awful experience, who do you blame for it. The festival was not managed well, but was it their fault that your room was burgled? Why did you stick with this driver? filed the article and it was never published nor was I paid. Since it was a press trip, my expenses were covered, and professionally there were no hard feelings. In fact, the same editor has sent me back out several times since then, including another Caribbean music festival. So to answer jcoulter's original post, given her situation I would be _diplomatically_ honest if asked faced to face an on-the-spot question, with heavy stress on diplomacy. I want to be a gracious guest, after all--they I'm reminded of the candidate's remark when he sees a particularly ugly baby. "That's a baby". flew me down, put me up, fed me lobster and shoved rum punches down my throat so I don't want to seem ungrateful. I also agree that the host company would want to know immediately of any problems encountered. Perhaps it comes down to your willingness to pay the price for being honest. Speaking for myself, while I would never lie, the truth wears many faces. Here's that article I mentioned, by Christopher Elliott: http://elliott.org/vault/critic/1998/writers.htm grandma Rosalie
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