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Immigration patrols on domestic Amtrak



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 15th, 2007, 02:44 AM posted to alt.culture.ny-upstate,misc.transport.rail.americas,rec.travel.usa-canada
Bill in Schenectady
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 86
Default Immigration patrols on domestic Amtrak

I just returned to my upstate New York home from a cross country vacation by
rail. I'll have other posts in various newsgroups about aspects of the
trip. But I wanted to comment about this incident.

We were on the Lake Shore Limited, traveling from Chicago to Schenectady
(the train goes on to New York City) when, just after the Buffalo stop, the
train stopped and two uniformed immigration patrol officers boarded and
walked through the coach class cars asking each person if he or she is an
American citizen. They did not ask for papers or identification. I heard
that they did take someone off the train from another car.

I spoke to the conductor about this since it further delayed a train that
was already running 45 minutes late. The conductor said that it doesn't
happen for every train, but it happens frequently. He also mentioned that
the officers do not go through the first class sleeper cars.

Legally, I don't think traveling by Amtrak is any different than driving on
highways. You don't see roadblocks on the nation's interstates (except for
some poorly thought out ones on the interstates leading from Canada and,
presumably, from Mexico). This train never crossed a border. And the
officers did not bother with the presumably wealthier sleeper passengers.

I think that at best, this is a huge waste of government resources. If they
are really looking for illegal aliens, they know where to look: the work
places where the illegals work for peanuts. If they are looking for
terrorists, then they should concentrate on the borders and international
airline terminals.

At it's worst, it reeks of countries where you can be stopped at any time
and place and asked to present your papers.

I wonder what the response would have been if I answered "American citizen"
but in a foreign accent.

--
Bill in Schenectady


  #2  
Old July 15th, 2007, 03:25 AM posted to alt.culture.ny-upstate,misc.transport.rail.americas,rec.travel.usa-canada
Fred Ellis
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4
Default Immigration Patrols On Domestic Amtrak

Bill in Schenectady wrote:

I just returned to my upstate New York home from a cross country vacation by
rail. I'll have other posts in various newsgroups about aspects of the
trip. But I wanted to comment about this incident.

We were on the Lake Shore Limited, traveling from Chicago to Schenectady
(the train goes on to New York City) when, just after the Buffalo stop, the
train stopped and two uniformed immigration patrol officers boarded and
walked through the coach class cars asking each person if he or she is an
American citizen. They did not ask for papers or identification. I heard
that they did take someone off the train from another car.

I spoke to the conductor about this since it further delayed a train that
was already running 45 minutes late. The conductor said that it doesn't
happen for every train, but it happens frequently. He also mentioned that
the officers do not go through the first class sleeper cars.

Legally, I don't think traveling by Amtrak is any different than driving on
highways. You don't see roadblocks on the nation's interstates (except for
some poorly thought out ones on the interstates leading from Canada and,
presumably, from Mexico). This train never crossed a border. And the
officers did not bother with the presumably wealthier sleeper passengers.

(Snipped)

--
Bill in Schenectady


You must not have travel on any of the interstate highways or US Routes
in the southwest part of the country. The Border Patrol has numerous
elaborate check points that are manned 24/7. If you are east bound on
IH 10 from El Paso, there is permanent check point station near Sierra
Blanca that you have to go through. I have been through at least a half
dozen or more of these permanent facilities while traveling through the
southwestern part of the country.


Fred Ellis
--
Who do you serve. . . . And who do you trust?
(To e-mail me, remove the X from my address)
  #3  
Old July 15th, 2007, 03:32 AM posted to alt.culture.ny-upstate,misc.transport.rail.americas,rec.travel.usa-canada
Bill in Schenectady
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 86
Default Immigration Patrols On Domestic Amtrak


"Fred Ellis" wrote in message
...
Bill in Schenectady wrote:

I just returned to my upstate New York home from a cross country vacation
by
rail. I'll have other posts in various newsgroups about aspects of the
trip. But I wanted to comment about this incident.

We were on the Lake Shore Limited, traveling from Chicago to Schenectady
(the train goes on to New York City) when, just after the Buffalo stop,
the
train stopped and two uniformed immigration patrol officers boarded and
walked through the coach class cars asking each person if he or she is an
American citizen. They did not ask for papers or identification. I
heard
that they did take someone off the train from another car.

I spoke to the conductor about this since it further delayed a train that
was already running 45 minutes late. The conductor said that it doesn't
happen for every train, but it happens frequently. He also mentioned
that
the officers do not go through the first class sleeper cars.

Legally, I don't think traveling by Amtrak is any different than driving
on
highways. You don't see roadblocks on the nation's interstates (except
for
some poorly thought out ones on the interstates leading from Canada and,
presumably, from Mexico). This train never crossed a border. And the
officers did not bother with the presumably wealthier sleeper passengers.

(Snipped)

--
Bill in Schenectady


You must not have travel on any of the interstate highways or US Routes
in the southwest part of the country. The Border Patrol has numerous
elaborate check points that are manned 24/7. If you are east bound on
IH 10 from El Paso, there is permanent check point station near Sierra
Blanca that you have to go through. I have been through at least a half
dozen or more of these permanent facilities while traveling through the
southwestern part of the country.


Fred Ellis
--


I do frequently travel on I-87 in northern New York's Adirondack Mountains.
For a while there was a permanent road block about 50 miles south of the
Canadian border...on a blind curve in a very rural area. After a semi
plowed into a stopped car, killing several, local uproar over this stop
forced the feds to shut it down at least some of the time. I'm going up
that way tomorrow so I'll see if they have reopened it.

I still think it's dumb. Protect the borders at the borders.


  #4  
Old July 15th, 2007, 03:34 AM posted to alt.culture.ny-upstate,misc.transport.rail.americas,rec.travel.usa-canada
Bill in Schenectady
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 86
Default Immigration patrols on domestic Amtrak


"Stephan in Burlington" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 01:44:38 GMT, while the Captain of the mv Perfecto
was guiding her to her next port, "Bill in Schenectady"
wrote:

We were on the Lake Shore Limited, traveling from Chicago to Schenectady
(the train goes on to New York City) when, just after the Buffalo stop,
the
train stopped and two uniformed immigration patrol officers boarded and
walked through the coach class cars asking each person if he or she is an
American citizen. They did not ask for papers or identification. I heard
that they did take someone off the train from another car.


Since the train stopped in Buffalo, I wonder if maybe it is because of
a crime committed in Canada, and police here notifying border
crossings about a suspect on the loose. When police here can't find a
suspect, they quite often notify not only other Ontario police forces,
but also all border crossings. From there, it wouldn't be too hard to
imagine the information getting to Homeland Security, and thus DHS
paying particular attention to trains that stop in Buffalo.

If that were the case, they wouldn't have to ask for identification if
they had a good description of the suspect.

It's just a thought.
Stephan in Burlington


That sounds unlikely since the conductor did say that this is very
common...meaning this happens on most of the trains. And if this was the
case, there would be no need to question each passenger in coach class,
especially if they had a description.


  #5  
Old July 15th, 2007, 03:46 AM posted to rec.travel.usa-canada
Janet Wilder
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 439
Default Immigration Patrols On Domestic Amtrak

Bill in Schenectady wrote:


I still think it's dumb. Protect the borders at the borders.



I live 6 miles from the Mexican border. The Border Patrol does its job
but illegals do slip through. Many, many of them are caught at
checkpoints along US 281 and US 77. Those checkpoints are located 70+
miles north of the Rio Grande.

The local media reports on the catching of illegal immigrants and drug
shipments at these checkpoints on an almost daily basis.

--
Janet Wilder
Bad spelling. Bad punctuation
Good Friends. Good Life
  #6  
Old July 15th, 2007, 03:53 AM posted to rec.travel.usa-canada
Bill in Schenectady
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 86
Default Immigration Patrols On Domestic Amtrak


"Janet Wilder" wrote in message
...
Bill in Schenectady wrote:


I still think it's dumb. Protect the borders at the borders.


I live 6 miles from the Mexican border. The Border Patrol does its job but
illegals do slip through. Many, many of them are caught at checkpoints
along US 281 and US 77. Those checkpoints are located 70+ miles north of
the Rio Grande.

The local media reports on the catching of illegal immigrants and drug
shipments at these checkpoints on an almost daily basis.

--
Janet Wilder
Bad spelling. Bad punctuation
Good Friends. Good Life


I suppose I shouldn't compare the southern border with the northern.
Relatively few illegal immigrants come over from Canada. I rarely hear of
anyone being caught due to checkpoints near the Canadian border (or even at
the border itself). In fact, the guy with the TB case came across on the
I-87 crossing from Canada into New York State. He was on a watch list, and
border patrol just waved him through.

The same border patrol treated my family of four, with two teenaged girls,
rather roughly when we came through the same crossing last year. They
showed us who was boss, but didn't catch someone on a watch list.


  #7  
Old July 15th, 2007, 04:06 AM posted to alt.culture.ny-upstate,misc.transport.rail.americas,rec.travel.usa-canada
Whitelightning
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default Immigration patrols on domestic Amtrak


"Bill in Schenectady" wrote in message
news:MIfmi.4061$7R4.3490@trndny09...

That sounds unlikely since the conductor did say that this is very
common...meaning this happens on most of the trains. And if this was the
case, there would be no need to question each passenger in coach class,
especially if they had a description.

Immigration is concerned with more than just Mexicans. And given that the
fastest growing
group in Canada right now starts with I and ends with slam, what they are
doing might not be
a bad thing. Once west of the great lakes the border between Canada and the
USA is damn
near imposable to secure unless we put troops on the border spaced every 100
yards, would
to be every 25 yards in some places unless we started clear cutting
vegetation.
Seems no matter what they do someone is saying its to much, and someone else
is saying it wasn't
enough.

Whitelightning.


  #8  
Old July 15th, 2007, 04:12 AM posted to alt.culture.ny-upstate,misc.transport.rail.americas,rec.travel.usa-canada
Mike Yetto
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1
Default Immigration Patrols On Domestic Amtrak

Bada bing Bill in Schenectady bada bang:
I do frequently travel on I-87 in northern New York's Adirondack Mountains.
For a while there was a permanent road block about 50 miles south of the
Canadian border...on a blind curve in a very rural area. After a semi
plowed into a stopped car, killing several, local uproar over this stop
forced the feds to shut it down at least some of the time. I'm going up
that way tomorrow so I'll see if they have reopened it.

I still think it's dumb. Protect the borders at the borders.


Not that it's a smarter place, but it seems to have moved about
another fifty miles south. My son and I went through just
such a check on the way back from a visit to Plattsburgh. We
were allowed to proceed after a anwering with a convincing
"yes" to the question of our citizenship.

Mike "not that we'd lie" Yetto
--
"There is danger from all men. The only maxim of a free
government ought to be to trust no man living with power to
endanger the public liberty."
- John Adams
  #9  
Old July 15th, 2007, 04:13 AM posted to alt.culture.ny-upstate,misc.transport.rail.americas,rec.travel.usa-canada
Bill in Schenectady
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 86
Default Immigration patrols on domestic Amtrak


"Whitelightning" wrote in message
news:Magmi.1565$gC5.1137@trnddc04...

"Bill in Schenectady" wrote in message
news:MIfmi.4061$7R4.3490@trndny09...

That sounds unlikely since the conductor did say that this is very
common...meaning this happens on most of the trains. And if this was the
case, there would be no need to question each passenger in coach class,
especially if they had a description.

Immigration is concerned with more than just Mexicans. And given that the
fastest growing
group in Canada right now starts with I and ends with slam, what they are
doing might not be
a bad thing. Once west of the great lakes the border between Canada and
the USA is damn
near imposable to secure unless we put troops on the border spaced every
100 yards, would
to be every 25 yards in some places unless we started clear cutting
vegetation.
Seems no matter what they do someone is saying its to much, and someone
else is saying it wasn't
enough.

Whitelightning.


Well, this was at the Buffalo stop. The train runs from Chicago to NYC.
Between Chicago and Syracuse, the only crossings from Canada are over
bridges.

So, why didn't they also check first class? Why don't they put road blocks
on the Thruway? Seems to me that they only look at public transportation
since that's what the poor people use. The real terrorists, though, have
resources. They by airline tickets.


  #10  
Old July 15th, 2007, 04:41 AM posted to alt.culture.ny-upstate,misc.transport.rail.americas,rec.travel.usa-canada
PeterL
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,471
Default Immigration Patrols On Domestic Amtrak

On Jul 14, 7:32 pm, "Bill in Schenectady" wrote:
"Fred Ellis" wrote in message

...





Bill in Schenectady wrote:


I just returned to my upstate New York home from a cross country vacation
by
rail. I'll have other posts in various newsgroups about aspects of the
trip. But I wanted to comment about this incident.


We were on the Lake Shore Limited, traveling from Chicago to Schenectady
(the train goes on to New York City) when, just after the Buffalo stop,
the
train stopped and two uniformed immigration patrol officers boarded and
walked through the coach class cars asking each person if he or she is an
American citizen. They did not ask for papers or identification. I
heard
that they did take someone off the train from another car.


I spoke to the conductor about this since it further delayed a train that
was already running 45 minutes late. The conductor said that it doesn't
happen for every train, but it happens frequently. He also mentioned
that
the officers do not go through the first class sleeper cars.


Legally, I don't think traveling by Amtrak is any different than driving
on
highways. You don't see roadblocks on the nation's interstates (except
for
some poorly thought out ones on the interstates leading from Canada and,
presumably, from Mexico). This train never crossed a border. And the
officers did not bother with the presumably wealthier sleeper passengers.


(Snipped)


--
Bill in Schenectady


You must not have travel on any of the interstate highways or US Routes
in the southwest part of the country. The Border Patrol has numerous
elaborate check points that are manned 24/7. If you are east bound on
IH 10 from El Paso, there is permanent check point station near Sierra
Blanca that you have to go through. I have been through at least a half
dozen or more of these permanent facilities while traveling through the
southwestern part of the country.


Fred Ellis
--


I do frequently travel on I-87 in northern New York's Adirondack Mountains.
For a while there was a permanent road block about 50 miles south of the
Canadian border...on a blind curve in a very rural area. After a semi
plowed into a stopped car, killing several, local uproar over this stop
forced the feds to shut it down at least some of the time. I'm going up
that way tomorrow so I'll see if they have reopened it.

I still think it's dumb. Protect the borders at the borders


That's a dumb statement. So you are saying they should not raid
illegal sweat shops in NYC or LA for illegal immigrants?


 




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