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IATA bids farewell to paper tickets



 
 
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  #51  
Old September 3rd, 2007, 06:23 PM posted to rec.travel.europe,rec.travel.air,rec.travel.asia
[email protected]
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Posts: 36
Default IATA bids farewell to paper tickets

On Sep 3, 7:01 am, "TMOliver" wrote:
wrote ....



E-tickets are not written contracts if there is no writing, and there
is no writing when they are booked by phone. You do know the
definition of "writing," don't you?


Question...

E - tickets purchased on the Internet - or by phone - from AA (and I
suppose most other airlines) are followed by an email from the airline to
the purchaser acknowledging the details of the purchase (and transmitting a
link to the conditions of carriage). I am of the impression that the
acknowledgement describing and defining the purchase consitutes the legal
equivalent of a contract. Apparently, acknowledgements of transactions do
constitute contracts in some other tranactions mentioned in the UCC.


It does. VS was quoting a post of mine from 2000 which was in
reference to a purely oral transaction with no written confirmation.




By the way, where is your law degree from? Where are you authorized
to practice law?


TMO



  #52  
Old September 3rd, 2007, 06:25 PM posted to rec.travel.europe,rec.travel.air,rec.travel.asia
[email protected]
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Posts: 36
Default IATA bids farewell to paper tickets

On Sep 3, 7:01 am, "TMOliver" wrote:
wrote ....



E-tickets are not written contracts if there is no writing, and there
is no writing when they are booked by phone. You do know the
definition of "writing," don't you?


Question...

E - tickets purchased on the Internet - or by phone - from AA (and I
suppose most other airlines) are followed by an email from the airline to
the purchaser acknowledging the details of the purchase (and transmitting a
link to the conditions of carriage). I am of the impression that the
acknowledgement describing and defining the purchase consitutes the legal
equivalent of a contract. Apparently, acknowledgements of transactions do
constitute contracts in some other tranactions mentioned in the UCC.



By the way, where is your law degree from? Where are you authorized
to practice law?


TMO


Sorry for the additional follow-up.

The UCC applies only as between _merchants_.

  #53  
Old September 4th, 2007, 05:35 AM posted to rec.travel.europe,rec.travel.air,rec.travel.asia
mrtravel[_3_]
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Posts: 837
Default IATA bids farewell to paper tickets

TMOliver wrote:

wrote ....


E-tickets are not written contracts if there is no writing, and there
is no writing when they are booked by phone. You do know the
definition of "writing," don't you?



Question...

E - tickets purchased on the Internet - or by phone - from AA (and I
suppose most other airlines) are followed by an email from the airline to
the purchaser acknowledging the details of the purchase (and transmitting a
link to the conditions of carriage). I am of the impression that the
acknowledgement describing and defining the purchase consitutes the legal
equivalent of a contract.


So, if someone sends you an email that you disagree with, it is still a
binding contract?
  #56  
Old September 4th, 2007, 08:40 PM posted to rec.travel.europe,rec.travel.air,rec.travel.asia
PTravel[_1_]
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Posts: 219
Default IATA bids farewell to paper tickets


"mrtravel" wrote in message
. ..
wrote:
On Sep 1, 10:44 pm, mrtravel wrote:

wrote:

On Aug 27, 2:13 pm, (VS) wrote:

In article . com,
Alain Quai wrote:

GENEVA (Reuters) - The global airlines body IATA said on Monday it
had placed its last order for paper tickets, clearing the way for air
travel to be based entirely on electronic ticketing from June 1 next
year.

My, and it seems like only yesterday our resident licensed attorney,
PaulTauger, was advising us that an e-ticket is not a written
contract, and that the statute of frauds precludes enforcement
of non-written contracts. I wonder if they changed the statute of
frauds since then, or if IATA is in violation.

Still think you know more law than a lawyer?

Is international transportation law his specialty?



Why do you think you would need to know anything about "international
transportation law" (whatever that is)? Do you think the law of
contracts mutates because there is an airline involved? And "he," by
the way, is me.


So, is he specializes in contracts executed in any country in the workd,
because if an e-ticket is a contract in Australia, it must be one in Costa
Rica.


The context of my discussion (back in 2000) about e-tickets was always U.S.
law. I have no idea what the laws are with respect to contractual
construction in other countries.

  #57  
Old September 4th, 2007, 08:41 PM posted to rec.travel.air,rec.travel.asia
PTravel[_1_]
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Posts: 219
Default IATA bids farewell to paper tickets


"mrtravel" wrote in message
. ..
wrote:

On Sep 3, 7:01 am, "TMOliver" wrote:

wrote ....




E-tickets are not written contracts if there is no writing, and there
is no writing when they are booked by phone. You do know the
definition of "writing," don't you?

Question...

E - tickets purchased on the Internet - or by phone - from AA (and I
suppose most other airlines) are followed by an email from the airline to
the purchaser acknowledging the details of the purchase (and transmitting
a
link to the conditions of carriage). I am of the impression that the
acknowledgement describing and defining the purchase consitutes the legal
equivalent of a contract. Apparently, acknowledgements of transactions
do
constitute contracts in some other tranactions mentioned in the UCC.




By the way, where is your law degree from? Where are you authorized
to practice law?

TMO



Sorry for the additional follow-up.

The UCC applies only as between _merchants_.


Huh?
So, I guess lines like the following are meaningless?
"(e) If one of the parties to a transaction is a consumer, the following
rules apply"

WRONG


What section of the UCC (which stands for "Uniform _Commercial_ Code" are
you looking at?

  #58  
Old September 9th, 2007, 06:55 AM posted to rec.travel.europe,rec.travel.air,rec.travel.asia
VS[_1_]
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Posts: 255
Default IATA bids farewell to paper tickets

In article om,
wrote:

The context was your ridiculous claim that (quote) ``an e-ticket is not
a written contract,'' followed by a long blovation that any opinion
of yours about e-tickets must be correct because you are a Licensed
Attorney (TM)... even though it was blindingly clear that you knew
bugger-all about e-tickets and how they work. E-tickets were written
contracts back in 2000, and they still are.


You haven't a clue, have you? Spend some time on google and then see
what you have to say, both about "Brooklyn Academy of Law," where I
practice law, what position I hold and whether I am a "once-a-year
traveler to Las Vegas.


According to Google, you have a degree from a fourth-rate law school
(Brooklyn^H^H^H^HLoyola Academy of Law or something - doesn't seem
to appear among the top fifty US law schools, per US News rankings)
and hold a position as ``counsel'' (isn't that a shorthand for failed
lawyers who didn't make partner?) at a third-rate firm. Apparently,
law is not the first career at which you failed, which would explain
why you imagine that a law degree is a license to spout nonsense
about e-tickets.

E-tickets are not written contracts if there is no writing, and there
is no writing when they are booked by phone. You do know the
definition of "writing," don't you?


I do know that no so long ago you claimed that (quote) ``an e-ticket
is an oral promise.'' Apparently, all these annual joints to Vegas
still haven't taught you that e-tickets come in forms other than oral
promises by airline representatives. Tsk, tsk.

By the way, where is your law degree from? Where are you authorized
to practice law?


I don't need a law degree to steer you - ever gently and kindly -
towards realizing that your claims about e-tickets (``an e-ticket
is an oral promise'' and ``an e-ticket is not a written contract'')
are pure nonsense. But if you don't believe me, why don't you stomp
your little feet at IATA and tell *them* what you think about legality
of e-tickets.

  #59  
Old September 10th, 2007, 05:41 AM posted to rec.travel.europe,rec.travel.air,rec.travel.asia
[email protected]
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Posts: 36
Default IATA bids farewell to paper tickets

On Sep 8, 10:55 pm, (VS) wrote:
In article om,

wrote:
The context was your ridiculous claim that (quote) ``an e-ticket is not
a written contract,'' followed by a long blovation that any opinion
of yours about e-tickets must be correct because you are a Licensed
Attorney (TM)... even though it was blindingly clear that you knew
bugger-all about e-tickets and how they work. E-tickets were written
contracts back in 2000, and they still are.


You haven't a clue, have you? Spend some time on google and then see
what you have to say, both about "Brooklyn Academy of Law," where I
practice law, what position I hold and whether I am a "once-a-year
traveler to Las Vegas.


According to Google, you have a degree from a fourth-rate law school
(Brooklyn^H^H^H^HLoyola Academy of Law or something - doesn't seem
to appear among the top fifty US law schools, per US News rankings)


Loyola Law is fourth rate? Try again, sonny.


and hold a position as ``counsel'' (isn't that a shorthand for failed
lawyers who didn't make partner?) at a third-rate firm.


My firm is third-rate? "Counsel" is short-hand for "didn't make
partner?"

Try again, sonny.

Apparently,
law is not the first career at which you failed, which would explain
why you imagine that a law degree is a license to spout nonsense
about e-tickets.


Yeah, right. I used to wonder why you drew constant attacks from so
many people on the net. Guess I know, don't I?


E-tickets are not written contracts if there is no writing, and there
is no writing when they are booked by phone. You do know the
definition of "writing," don't you?


I do know that no so long ago you claimed that (quote) ``an e-ticket
is an oral promise.'' Apparently, all these annual joints to Vegas
still haven't taught you that e-tickets come in forms other than oral
promises by airline representatives. Tsk, tsk.


I think you mean, "jaunt," not "joint." And I have no idea what
you're talking about. I don't take "annual jaunts" to Las Vegas, and
when I do go I don't fly.


By the way, where is your law degree from? Where are you authorized
to practice law?


I don't need a law degree to steer you -


Sure, you're clearly a well-qualified legal expert.


ever gently and kindly -
towards realizing that your claims about e-tickets (``an e-ticket
is an oral promise'' and ``an e-ticket is not a written contract'')
are pure nonsense. But if you don't believe me, why don't you stomp
your little feet at IATA and tell *them* what you think about legality
of e-tickets.


As I said (though I understand you have trouble with content as well
as context), in 2000, when I made those comments, etickets were mad
eon the phone and no written confirmations were provided. However,
don't let the facts get in your way.



 




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