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  #1061  
Old August 15th, 2006, 02:15 AM posted to rec.travel.air,rec.travel.europe,soc.culture.british,soc.culture.usa,alt.politics.bush
Miguel Cruz
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Posts: 242
Default Draconian vacation policies for US slave workers

Mxsmanic wrote:
Miguel Cruz writes:
The most reasonable way to ensure they are relatively accurate is to
ensure they are absolutely accurate.


Not necessarily. It may be cheaper to provide very stable time
references for the network for relative measurement rather than try to
derive those measures from an ultra-accurate time-of-day source. This
is especially true since the accuracy required might be microseconds
or better, and this is expensive to derive from the time of day.


If you know where you are then you can synchronize with microsecond
accuracy against other devices that also know where they are, using
freely-available time-of-day sources.

On the other hand, synchronizing in any other way would be more
complicated and expensive.

I do not see any reason to believe cellular phone companies would spend
more money and effort just to prove you right.

For example, most time of day sources provide extremely high long-term
accuracy at low cost, but they provide poor short-term accuracy unless
a great deal of effort and money is expended.


Hint: Cell towers are not using NTP.

A radio source will keep your network locked to the correct time of
day with long-term accuracy equal to that of the best atomic clocks,
but the short-term accuracy may be off by hundreds of milliseconds
per day unless you spend a great deal on either continuous
synchronization or a local reference that is extremely accurate when
free-running. In the latter case, you might as well skip the
time-of-day reference.


No, because the point is to get the clocks at multiple locations
synchronized with each other.

[ boring crap that everyone knows and has nothing to do with the issue
omitted ]

miguel
--
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Latest photos: Malaysia; Thailand; Singapore; Spain; Morocco
Airports of the world: http://airport.u.nu
  #1062  
Old August 15th, 2006, 02:18 AM posted to rec.travel.air,rec.travel.europe,soc.culture.british,soc.culture.usa,alt.politics.bush
Tchiowa
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Posts: 1,374
Default Draconian vacation policies for US slave workers


Miguel Cruz wrote:
"Tchiowa" wrote:


Nonsense. The difference in culture between New York City, San
Francisco, Miami, New Orleans are every bit as great.


I'm having a hard time grasping this claim.

Take New York and New Orleans, to be charitable.


OK.

The vast majority of people speak the same language.


The "versions" of English that they speak are different. A high
percentage in both cities speak English as a second language. Spanish
is very common in NYC. French is dominant in New Orleans.

They have 95% of
the same TV channels, substantially the same popular music and films,


The music scene in New York and New Orleans don't even resemble each
other. New Orleans is famous for it's jazz clubs while NYC is more
classical and show music.

Yes, they all watch MTV. But of course so do the people in Berlin and
Athens.

the same brands in the shops and the same chains of shops.


Same is true for Athens and Berlin.

They have 200
years of shared national history and for most people the same elections
are the most important.

Contrast this with Athens and Berlin. A tiny minority of the people have
shared fluency in any language.


Almost all speak English.

They share a handful of TV channels,
mostly the channels that are available in New York and New Orleans as
well. Popular music and films are different, the cuisines have less
overlap,


You think New Orleans food is similar to what you get in NYC?

and individuals in one city have almost no interest in the same
political issues as those in the other. They don't even use the same


Most political issues in NYC are local as are the issues in New
Orleans. "All politics is local."

  #1063  
Old August 15th, 2006, 03:44 AM posted to rec.travel.air,rec.travel.europe,soc.culture.british,soc.culture.usa,alt.politics.bush
Hatunen
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Posts: 4,483
Default Draconian vacation policies for US slave workers

On 14 Aug 2006 18:00:35 -0700, "Tchiowa"
wrote:


Hatunen wrote:
On 14 Aug 2006 04:14:55 -0700, "Tchiowa"
wrote:


Balkanized is a term that came into common use during the 1990s when
Yugoslavia came apart and the Balkans erupted into war. Balkanized
means that the area has been chopped up into small independent
political entities based on mutual hatred.


You must be young to think the word "Balkanized" came into common
use in the 1990s.


Sorry, but while it may have been used in some circles, *common* usage
didn't happen until the Balkans came apart rather violently in the 90s.

Kind of like the rest of Europe.

Or did you think that all those nations formed by some kind of magic?


THOSE nations were formed in the aftermath of WW1,


Amazing. No Germany or France or England or Italy or Spain or Portugal
or Ireland prior to WWI. All the history books must be wrong.


I didn't know Germany, France, Englnd, Italy and Spain were
Balkan countries. (Please see paragraph above starting
"Balkanized is a term ...")

However, I do see an ambiguity there further down, so I'll await
clarification.

************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
  #1064  
Old August 15th, 2006, 06:12 AM posted to rec.travel.air,rec.travel.europe,soc.culture.british,soc.culture.usa,alt.politics.bush
Mxsmanic
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Posts: 5,830
Default Draconian vacation policies for US slave workers

Miguel Cruz writes:

If you know where you are then you can synchronize with microsecond
accuracy against other devices that also know where they are, using
freely-available time-of-day sources.


It's not that easy, because of propagation delays and variation
therein.

Hint: Cell towers are not using NTP.


Whatever they use, the principle is the same.

No, because the point is to get the clocks at multiple locations
synchronized with each other.


There aren't too many protocols that require that, and even of those
that do, often propagation delay is ignored. The stations are
synchronized after allowing for delays, but they aren't necessarily
synchronized with an absolute time of day.

It's possible to synchronize with time of day with accuracies of tens
of milliseconds without too much trouble, but below that threshold
things get complicated and expensive. Even NTP is a complicated
protocol, specifically because it is so hard to make it highly
accurate.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.
  #1065  
Old August 15th, 2006, 10:34 AM posted to rec.travel.air,rec.travel.europe,soc.culture.british,soc.culture.usa,alt.politics.bush
The Reid[_1_]
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Posts: 1,448
Default Draconian vacation policies for US slave workers

Following up to Jim Ley

Weather and other obstacles can cause problems for satelite TV, plus the
dish might not fit with the style of your home.


And what if you get many hundreds less channels with the cable system,
does that change the decision?


I've seen satellite, freeview and NTL cable, I find there are
about half a dozen channels common to them all that I ever watch,
the rest are total dross.
--
Mike Reid
I will agree bendybuses are a good idea when they build bungalows on Mayfair
Walk-eat-photos UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-photos Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk"
  #1066  
Old August 15th, 2006, 10:34 AM posted to rec.travel.air,rec.travel.europe,soc.culture.british,soc.culture.usa,alt.politics.bush
The Reid[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,448
Default Draconian vacation policies for US slave workers

Following up to Hatunen

Nonsense. The difference in culture between New York City, San
Francisco, Miami, New Orleans are every bit as great.


No, they're not.


In many ways they really are. For instance, if you spend any time
in Miami you will quickly realize it is a Caribbean city.


are different parts of US more different than the Basques from
the Galicians from the Catalans from the gypsies from the
madrilanos?
--
Mike Reid
I will agree bendybuses are a good idea when they build bungalows on Mayfair
Walk-eat-photos UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-photos Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk"
  #1067  
Old August 15th, 2006, 10:34 AM posted to rec.travel.air,rec.travel.europe,soc.culture.british,soc.culture.usa,alt.politics.bush
The Reid[_1_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,448
Default Draconian vacation policies for US slave workers

Following up to Dave Frightens Me

"Gullible" isn't in the dictionary, so it can't be a word.


Neither is "fettle", but mine's in fine enough form.


"gruntled" actually seems to be missing, it must exist as you can
be dis....
--
Mike Reid
I will agree bendybuses are a good idea when they build bungalows on Mayfair
Walk-eat-photos UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-photos Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk"
  #1068  
Old August 15th, 2006, 02:51 PM posted to rec.travel.air,rec.travel.europe,soc.culture.british,soc.culture.usa,alt.politics.bush
Miguel Cruz
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 242
Default Draconian vacation policies for US slave workers

Mxsmanic wrote:
Miguel Cruz writes:
If you know where you are then you can synchronize with microsecond
accuracy against other devices that also know where they are, using
freely-available time-of-day sources.


It's not that easy, because of propagation delays and variation
therein.

Hint: Cell towers are not using NTP.


Whatever they use, the principle is the same.


No, the only thing they have to worry about are delays and echoes
introduced by radio reflection.

No, because the point is to get the clocks at multiple locations
synchronized with each other.


There aren't too many protocols that require that, and even of those
that do, often propagation delay is ignored. The stations are
synchronized after allowing for delays, but they aren't necessarily
synchronized with an absolute time of day.


The easiest way to synchronize them is using a common time source.

It's possible to synchronize with time of day with accuracies of tens
of milliseconds without too much trouble, but below that threshold
things get complicated and expensive. Even NTP is a complicated
protocol, specifically because it is so hard to make it highly
accurate.


NTP has to deal with problems that fixed-position radio receivers don't.
All of its problems and hurdles are irrelevant.

miguel
--
Photos from 40 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu
Latest photos: Malaysia; Thailand; Singapore; Spain; Morocco
Airports of the world: http://airport.u.nu
  #1069  
Old August 15th, 2006, 03:07 PM posted to rec.travel.air,rec.travel.europe,soc.culture.british,soc.culture.usa,alt.politics.bush
Miguel Cruz
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 242
Default Draconian vacation policies for US slave workers

"Tchiowa" wrote:
Miguel Cruz wrote:
"Tchiowa" wrote:
Nonsense. The difference in culture between New York City, San
Francisco, Miami, New Orleans are every bit as great.


I'm having a hard time grasping this claim.

Take New York and New Orleans, to be charitable.


OK.

The vast majority of people speak the same language.


The "versions" of English that they speak are different. A high
percentage in both cities speak English as a second language. Spanish
is very common in NYC. French is dominant in New Orleans.


French is not "dominant" in New Orleans. Some people speak it, but not
that many in daily life. Most people speak English every day. Just as
most people speak English in New York.

They have 95% of the same TV channels, substantially the same
popular music and films,


The music scene in New York and New Orleans don't even resemble each
other. New Orleans is famous for it's jazz clubs while NYC is more
classical and show music.


Jazz clubs and Broadway shows are a small proportion of the music
listening that goes on in the respective cities (and come to think of
it, a couple days ago I saw a big New Orleans jazz band in New York;
never went to any shows). Most of the music people are listening to is
top-40 crap that is substantially the same across the USA but much less
the same as the top-40 crap in Europe.

Yes, they all watch MTV. But of course so do the people in Berlin and
Athens.


Greece has its own music video channels that broadcast Greek pop music;
this is not heard anywhere else in Europe. Neither New York nor New
Orleans has any such thing.

the same brands in the shops and the same chains of shops.


Same is true for Athens and Berlin.


To a far lesser extent.

Contrast this with Athens and Berlin. A tiny minority of the people
have shared fluency in any language.


Almost all speak English.


Simply untrue. Many people in Germany speak English at some level; not
nearly so many in Greece. Outside of tourist-facing industries and
international business you will not have an easy time finding English
speakers in Greece older than 30 or so. I lived in Greece, and it became
pretty clear to me pretty quickly who I had to look for in order to find
someone I could communicate with in English.

To compare this with the situation in New York and New Orleans, where
almost everyone has shared fluency, is pretty bold.

They share a handful of TV channels,
mostly the channels that are available in New York and New Orleans as
well. Popular music and films are different, the cuisines have less
overlap,


You think New Orleans food is similar to what you get in NYC?


I think that the regional cuisine in New Orleans is different from
what's most commonly eaten in New York. But that's not all - or even the
majority - of what people there eat. Most of the food eaten in New
Orleans is very similar to most of the food that's eaten in New York.

Basically I think you're comparing the specific regional idiosyncrasies
in New Orleans with those of New York and then pronouncing that the two
cities are very different. But those idiosyncrasies, however colorful,
are not terribly representative of typical behavior in the two places.
Most people are part of the USA cultural mainstream.

Most political issues in NYC are local as are the issues in New
Orleans. "All politics is local."


The elections that people talk about the most in both cities are the
national ones.

Few people in Athens or Berlin are spending much time talking about EU
parliamentary elections.

miguel
--
Photos from 40 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu
Latest photos: Malaysia; Thailand; Singapore; Spain; Morocco
Airports of the world: http://airport.u.nu
  #1070  
Old August 15th, 2006, 03:40 PM posted to rec.travel.air,rec.travel.europe,soc.culture.british,soc.culture.usa,alt.politics.bush
Sarah Banick
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Posts: 488
Default Draconian vacation policies for US slave workers


Thanks for saving me some time, Miguel. :-)


"Miguel Cruz" wrote in message
news:spam-57B051.10072815082006@localhost...
"Tchiowa" wrote:
Miguel Cruz wrote:
"Tchiowa" wrote:
Nonsense. The difference in culture between New York City, San
Francisco, Miami, New Orleans are every bit as great.

I'm having a hard time grasping this claim.

Take New York and New Orleans, to be charitable.


OK.

The vast majority of people speak the same language.


The "versions" of English that they speak are different. A high
percentage in both cities speak English as a second language. Spanish
is very common in NYC. French is dominant in New Orleans.


French is not "dominant" in New Orleans. Some people speak it, but not
that many in daily life. Most people speak English every day. Just as
most people speak English in New York.

They have 95% of the same TV channels, substantially the same
popular music and films,


The music scene in New York and New Orleans don't even resemble each
other. New Orleans is famous for it's jazz clubs while NYC is more
classical and show music.


Jazz clubs and Broadway shows are a small proportion of the music
listening that goes on in the respective cities (and come to think of
it, a couple days ago I saw a big New Orleans jazz band in New York;
never went to any shows). Most of the music people are listening to is
top-40 crap that is substantially the same across the USA but much less
the same as the top-40 crap in Europe.

Yes, they all watch MTV. But of course so do the people in Berlin and
Athens.


Greece has its own music video channels that broadcast Greek pop music;
this is not heard anywhere else in Europe. Neither New York nor New
Orleans has any such thing.

the same brands in the shops and the same chains of shops.


Same is true for Athens and Berlin.


To a far lesser extent.

Contrast this with Athens and Berlin. A tiny minority of the people
have shared fluency in any language.


Almost all speak English.


Simply untrue. Many people in Germany speak English at some level; not
nearly so many in Greece. Outside of tourist-facing industries and
international business you will not have an easy time finding English
speakers in Greece older than 30 or so. I lived in Greece, and it became
pretty clear to me pretty quickly who I had to look for in order to find
someone I could communicate with in English.

To compare this with the situation in New York and New Orleans, where
almost everyone has shared fluency, is pretty bold.

They share a handful of TV channels,
mostly the channels that are available in New York and New Orleans as
well. Popular music and films are different, the cuisines have less
overlap,


You think New Orleans food is similar to what you get in NYC?


I think that the regional cuisine in New Orleans is different from
what's most commonly eaten in New York. But that's not all - or even the
majority - of what people there eat. Most of the food eaten in New
Orleans is very similar to most of the food that's eaten in New York.

Basically I think you're comparing the specific regional idiosyncrasies
in New Orleans with those of New York and then pronouncing that the two
cities are very different. But those idiosyncrasies, however colorful,
are not terribly representative of typical behavior in the two places.
Most people are part of the USA cultural mainstream.

Most political issues in NYC are local as are the issues in New
Orleans. "All politics is local."


The elections that people talk about the most in both cities are the
national ones.

Few people in Athens or Berlin are spending much time talking about EU
parliamentary elections.

miguel
--
Photos from 40 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu
Latest photos: Malaysia; Thailand; Singapore; Spain; Morocco
Airports of the world: http://airport.u.nu



 




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