Avoid Delta and Atlanta

On 14 Aug 2006 17:46:14 -0700, "Tchiowa" wrote:


Dave Frightens Me wrote:
On 13 Aug 2006 21:25:19 -0700, "Tchiowa" wrote:


Dave Frightens Me wrote:
On 10 Aug 2006 18:01:31 -0700, "Tchiowa" wrote:

Utter rubbish. These people are no more likely to have links with Al
Qaeda and the Taliban than anyone else. They were just rounded up so
the USA could have some spoils.

And your proof of that?

They are being deprived due process only because many of them would be
found to have done nothing.

And your proof of *that*???

Just read the ****ing article and educate yourself. They have been
assumed guilty, and have no way of proving otherwise.

In other words you have to proof and you are willing to believe any
slanted article you can find.

Please, show where the slant is. The info comes from government
sources, and I can't seem to fault it. Help me if you like.

The slant is obvious in the phrasing of the article. There is a very
clear agenda.

In particular which part? I suspect you haven't even looked at it.
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DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
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On 14 Aug 2006 18:18:12 -0700, "Tchiowa" wrote:


Miguel Cruz wrote:

Contrast this with Athens and Berlin. A tiny minority of the people have
shared fluency in any language.

Almost all speak English.

*chuckle*

You would be one of those ignorant yanks if you believe this!

They share a handful of TV channels,
mostly the channels that are available in New York and New Orleans as
well. Popular music and films are different, the cuisines have less
overlap,

You think New Orleans food is similar to what you get in NYC?

It's a hell of a lot closer than Greek salad and Sauerkraut.
--
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DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
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On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 10:34:10 +0100, The Reid
wrote:

Following up to Hatunen

Nonsense. The difference in culture between New York City, San
Francisco, Miami, New Orleans are every bit as great.

No, they're not.

In many ways they really are. For instance, if you spend any time
in Miami you will quickly realize it is a Caribbean city.

are different parts of US more different than the Basques from
the Galicians from the Catalans from the gypsies from the
madrilanos?

I think the Mexicans here in southern Arizona are different from
your ordinary Phoenician, and certainly the Navajos are different
from anyone else in the USA. The naarby Pascua Yaqui are quite
different, from Kansans, and from Navajos and Mexicans, and from
their neighbs, the Tohono O'odham.

Yes I think we can claim quite a few different and distinct
cultures. We even have Basques in some areas.

************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 09:51:11 -0400, Miguel Cruz
wrote:

Mxsmanic wrote:
Miguel Cruz writes:
If you know where you are then you can synchronize with microsecond
accuracy against other devices that also know where they are, using
freely-available time-of-day sources.

It's not that easy, because of propagation delays and variation
therein.

Hint: Cell towers are not using NTP.

Whatever they use, the principle is the same.

No, the only thing they have to worry about are delays and echoes
introduced by radio reflection.

No, because the point is to get the clocks at multiple locations
synchronized with each other.

There aren't too many protocols that require that, and even of those
that do, often propagation delay is ignored. The stations are
synchronized after allowing for delays, but they aren't necessarily
synchronized with an absolute time of day.

The easiest way to synchronize them is using a common time source.

But there will always be propagation time differences from that
source to the devices being synched.


************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 10:07:28 -0400, Miguel Cruz
wrote:

"Tchiowa" wrote:
Miguel Cruz wrote:
"Tchiowa" wrote:
Nonsense. The difference in culture between New York City, San
Francisco, Miami, New Orleans are every bit as great.

I'm having a hard time grasping this claim.

Take New York and New Orleans, to be charitable.

OK.

The vast majority of people speak the same language.

The "versions" of English that they speak are different. A high
percentage in both cities speak English as a second language. Spanish
is very common in NYC. French is dominant in New Orleans.

French is not "dominant" in New Orleans. Some people speak it, but not
that many in daily life. Most people speak English every day. Just as
most people speak English in New York.

It isn't French that is spoken, anyway, it is Cajun. And within
the city of New Orleans (in normal times) Cajun wouldn't be that
widely spoken, but it is widely spoken outside NO, mostly to the
west.

They have 95% of the same TV channels, substantially the same
popular music and films,

The music scene in New York and New Orleans don't even resemble each
other. New Orleans is famous for it's jazz clubs while NYC is more
classical and show music.

Jazz clubs and Broadway shows are a small proportion of the music
listening that goes on in the respective cities (and come to think of
it, a couple days ago I saw a big New Orleans jazz band in New York;
never went to any shows). Most of the music people are listening to is
top-40 crap that is substantially the same across the USA but much less
the same as the top-40 crap in Europe.

Yes, they all watch MTV. But of course so do the people in Berlin and
Athens.

Greece has its own music video channels that broadcast Greek pop music;
this is not heard anywhere else in Europe. Neither New York nor New
Orleans has any such thing.

Arizona does. Some radio stations in northern Arizona broadcast
in Navajo. Quite a few of the stations in the rest of Arizona
broadcast only in Spanish (or Spanglish). The music on these
stations is as different from the normal run of "American" music
as bazouki music is from Mannheim Steamroller. The Hopi culture
is sufficiently different from the Navajo that they are sometimes
at war with each other.

the same brands in the shops and the same chains of shops.

Same is true for Athens and Berlin.

To a far lesser extent.

How precisely are we arguing this? Is there some magic number of
pan-European chain outlets that (or, God forbid, American chains)
that makes them the same enough to call it part of a common
culture?

Contrast this with Athens and Berlin. A tiny minority of the people
have shared fluency in any language.

Almost all speak English.

Simply untrue. Many people in Germany speak English at some level; not
nearly so many in Greece. Outside of tourist-facing industries and
international business you will not have an easy time finding English
speakers in Greece older than 30 or so. I lived in Greece, and it became
pretty clear to me pretty quickly who I had to look for in order to find
someone I could communicate with in English.

I can show you parts of the USA where you'll have a hard time
finding an English speaker, especially among the older. And I
defy you to converse in Navajo. if you think Hungarian is
supposed to be hard to learn ...

To compare this with the situation in New York and New Orleans, where
almost everyone has shared fluency, is pretty bold.

They share a handful of TV channels,
mostly the channels that are available in New York and New Orleans as
well. Popular music and films are different, the cuisines have less
overlap,

You think New Orleans food is similar to what you get in NYC?

I think that the regional cuisine in New Orleans is different from
what's most commonly eaten in New York. But that's not all - or even the
majority - of what people there eat. Most of the food eaten in New
Orleans is very similar to most of the food that's eaten in New York.

Hmm. I wonder, once you strip away the McDonalds and Burger Kings
and all. Most of New Orleans would have eaten something on the
order of southern soul food or some form of Cajun (unfortunately,
I think past tense is rquired for New Orleans).

Basically I think you're comparing the specific regional idiosyncrasies
in New Orleans with those of New York and then pronouncing that the two
cities are very different. But those idiosyncrasies, however colorful,
are not terribly representative of typical behavior in the two places.
Most people are part of the USA cultural mainstream.

Most people in Europe these days are part of the European
mainstream, and it's a far more attractive mainstream than the
mainstream of the 1920s and 1930s.

Most political issues in NYC are local as are the issues in New
Orleans. "All politics is local."

The elections that people talk about the most in both cities are the
national ones.

I would disagree on that one. Of course the political talk varies
as the winds of politics vary, but there is, in fact, only one
national election, that for president. There is usually a great
deal of talk locally about local elections, and two locallly
elected offices are up for grabs this year in many states: for
the US Senate and the House of Representatives.

On the other hadn, at the family farm in Finland I find my
cousins sounding just like Americans, whining about the rules
being imposed by the central government in Brussels, and laughing
about receiving a subsidy for the area not used for cows where
all the rocks from the rest of the farm were piled up.

Few people in Athens or Berlin are spending much time talking about EU
parliamentary elections.

Well, duh. That's hardly a good comparison. The EU doesn't really
have a particularly democratic form of government, so why bother?

These cultural comparisons between the USA and Europe are silly,
but if you're going to do it perhaps they might be more fairly
made between Europe and Canada/USA/Mexico, but even within the
USA there is a great deal of diversity. How much is extreme
enough to compare with Greece v Norway is arguable, but I would
certainly argue that the difference between the Navajo and
Clevelanders is that extreme. Or between the Aleuts and the
Quebecoises. I expect most Europeans aren't even aware of the
Yaqui, Navajo and Tohono O'odham cultures. And the Cajun culture
of Alexandria, Louisiana, is quite different from the culture of
Atlanta.

The Quebecoises claim to be a different culture from the rest of
the continent (although the people of France think it's too
similar). When you include Mexico you really stir things up:
Mexico is internally almost as diverse as Europe, maybe more
diverse, as to language and culture.


************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

On 14 Aug 2006 18:09:13 -0700, "Tchiowa" wrote:


Jordi wrote:

No, they're not.

Spoken like a true Euro who have never been to the US.

Before you come up with the "smart" response, I've been to Europe
probably 100 times and visited a large number of European countries.

Nice one. How come you have such an odd view of Europe? Is it because
you are lying?

There's history, you see. Are you by any chance pretending the US is
exempt from those?

No. Just pointing out the fact that the reason so many Euros have
passports is due to hatred and bigotry, not some cultural superiority
as has been implied.

Very bizzare response.

No, we're talking two completely different things. All this came after
you said more or less 'what's the use of holidays if people don't have
money to spend', Europeans do have enough money to keep a... say
'western' lifestyle without having to work 51 weeks a year, that's all.

But their "western" lifestyle is lower than American's.

In what sense? 1.0 litre less of engine?, 4 less inches on a flat TV?
Having some real vacation weighs substantially more on overal quality
of life.

As do a lot of other things. Most Americans have "real" vacations and
most have more to spend on their vacations that Euros do.

That is meaningless, as you included "real", which could mean
anything.

If you are talking on an international level, you will see many of
these allegedly burdened employers competing hand to hand with other
'unburdened' ones.

With a whole lot less employees which is demonstrated by the high
unemployment rates in Europe.

You are talking about just which countries out of the forty or so?
--
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DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
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On Tue, 15 Aug 2006 17:34:13 +0200, Dave Frightens Me
wrote:

On 14 Aug 2006 18:09:13 -0700, "Tchiowa" wrote:

No. Just pointing out the fact that the reason so many Euros have
passports is due to hatred and bigotry, not some cultural superiority
as has been implied.

Very bizzare response.

Not as bizarre as it looks at first glance. Passports are a
result of World War One.

************* DAVE HATUNEN ) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

Following up to Hatunen

The naarby Pascua Yaqui are quite
different, from Kansans, and from Navajos and Mexicans, and from
their neighbs, the Tohono O'odham.

Yes I think we can claim quite a few different and distinct
cultures. We even have Basques in some areas.

We probably have some Basques here, I doubt that much like
visiting the Basque country any more than going to parts of
Birmingham are like going to Pakistan!
--
Mike Reid
I will agree bendybuses are a good idea when they build bungalows on Mayfair
Walk-eat-photos UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-photos Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk"

Following up to Dave Frightens Me

Contrast this with Athens and Berlin. A tiny minority of the people have
shared fluency in any language.

Almost all speak English.

*chuckle*

You would be one of those ignorant yanks if you believe this!

that's a classic, "everybody in Europe speaks English". Is the
man trolling?
--
Mike Reid
I will agree bendybuses are a good idea when they build bungalows on Mayfair
Walk-eat-photos UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" -- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-photos Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk"

The Reid wrote:
Following up to Dave Frightens Me


Contrast this with Athens and Berlin. A tiny minority of the people have
shared fluency in any language.

Almost all speak English.

*chuckle*

You would be one of those ignorant yanks if you believe this!


that's a classic, "everybody in Europe speaks English". Is the
man trolling?

It is true. If you speak slow enough and loud enough, everyone understands.