Unanswered questions at Dulles Airport

Unanswered questions at Dulles Airport

Full story:

http://hasbrouck.org/blog/archives/001065.html

Excerpt:

Never, anywhere in the world -- including a fairly
wide variety of police states -- have I been
threatened with arrrest while travelling, merely for
asking questions about what was happening.

Until last month, at Dulles Airport outside
Washington, DC, USA....


.... the TSA has crafted its procedures so that the
demand for identification credentials is made neither
by the TSA itself nor the airline, but by a third
party whose identity and authority are entirely
unverifiable to the traveller, and who is accountable
to the traveller neither through government
legislative and regulatory procedures nor through
enforcement of contractual rights (since they have no
contractual relationship to the traveller).

To give an added _frisson_ of resemblance to countries
with corrupt or dysfunctional police and governments,
the people in uniform demanding people's credentials
are lying about being government employees. The real
government employees watching them don't care. And if,
like me, you so much as ask a few polite questions
about what is going on, you are detained, threatened
with arrest, searched, investigated, your papers
copied by the government for your permanent (I can
only presume) dossier, and the unaccountable third
party (and, in the case of an RFID passport, anyone
else within range with a reader in their luggage) left
with the unregulated legal "right" to use and sell any
data obtained from its government-coerced scrutiny of
your credentials.


----------------
Edward Hasbrouck

http://hasbrouck.org

"The Practical Nomad: How to Travel Around the World"
(3rd edition, 2004)
"The Practical Nomad Guide to the Online Travel Marketplace"
http://www.practicalnomad.com

"Edward Hasbrouck" wrote:
Unanswered questions at Dulles Airport
Full story: http://hasbrouck.org/blog/archives/001065.html

Launching an investigation of how TSA operates their checkpoints,
while trying to catch a place, is IMO, not the brightest idea; nor is
subjecting yourself to arrest for causing a public disturbance, even
if it would hold up in court. LEO's are all too happy to lock you
up and let the judicial system figure out that 'mistakes were made'
at a later date. =R=

Never, anywhere in the world -- including a fairly wide variety of
police states -- have I been threatened with arrrest while travelling,
merely for asking questions about what was happening.

The only airport in which my checked luggage was opened was
Dulles, and I only pack clothes in my checked bags to make sure
the x-ray shows absolutely nothing. Therefore Dulles opens bags
for no good reason. I don't think it's a great mystery that any airport
near our illustrious politicians - LGA, JFK, IAD, BOS, etc. - will
invoke all of the secret handshakes known to them.


Pete

Rog' wrote:
"Edward Hasbrouck" wrote:

Unanswered questions at Dulles Airport
Full story: http://hasbrouck.org/blog/archives/001065.html


Launching an investigation of how TSA operates their checkpoints,
while trying to catch a place, is IMO, not the brightest idea; nor is
subjecting yourself to arrest for causing a public disturbance, even
if it would hold up in court. LEO's are all too happy to lock you
up and let the judicial system figure out that 'mistakes were made'
at a later date. =R=


As a reporter, it appears his objective was to make a scene.
It doesn't matter who requires the check, it is required.
If you don't have the ID required, you ask them what you can do.
You don't TELL them how to do their job.
I once left my id at the previous airport, because the gate agent didn't
return it after it was requested in order to get on an earlier flight.
I told the people at the other airport and had no problems not using an
ID and getting secondary screening. The reporter started all of this
with a goal in mind. He knew perfectly well the id checker was not a TSA
employee. However, their job is to carry out the airlines' security
policy of requesting ID, which is one of the items in place due to their
agreement with TSA. As indicated, TSA doesn't require ID, but they do
require a policy for standard vs secondary screeening.

In article , "Rog'" writes:
"Edward Hasbrouck" wrote:
Unanswered questions at Dulles Airport
Full story: http://hasbrouck.org/blog/archives/001065.html

Launching an investigation of how TSA operates their checkpoints,
while trying to catch a place, is IMO, not the brightest idea; nor is
subjecting yourself to arrest for causing a public disturbance, even
if it would hold up in court. LEO's are all too happy to lock you
up and let the judicial system figure out that 'mistakes were made'
at a later date. =R=

My favorite part was when he asked the TSA supervisor if he was
required to show his ID to the non-TSA guy, and the supervisor said yes, so
then he starts to hand the ID over, and the supervisor says "what are you
doing?
I mean, you JUST SAID... oh, never mind.

Ed has a good point, though. I always obediently show my ID to those
guys who "pre-screen" you when you enter the security line area. It never
occurred to me to question THIER identities. But it makes me wonder how long a
prankster could get away with posing as some non-TSA security drone. Put one
of those tiny hidden cameras in your jacket to photograph the ID's as you
"look" at them, and you'd have a decent identity theft scam going.

- Sharon, (Man, I watch too much tv!)
"Gravity... is a harsh mistress!"

wrote:
Regardless of what one thinks of his methods, his point is
basically made. One can ask alot of questions as a reporter,
and get vague answers meant to avoid the issue. Only by
actually trying to address the system in action can one
determine what is actually going on.

I might have been more sympathetic if the guy had tried to talk
these people without getting in line. My sympathies go to the
people behind him who were just trying to thru the line. Bottom
line: I show my ID to cashiers at Wal-Mart, so why not this guy.

The folks hired to screen your "papers" tend to be dom-wits.
Once, one called a supervisor to ask what "No FF Miles" on
my boarding pass meant. I could only roll my eyes... "It means
no freakin' f*ckin' frequent-flyer miles, fool. =R=

wrote:

Rog' wrote:

"Edward Hasbrouck" wrote:

Unanswered questions at Dulles Airport
Full story: http://hasbrouck.org/blog/archives/001065.html

Launching an investigation of how TSA operates their checkpoints,
while trying to catch a place, is IMO, not the brightest idea; nor is
subjecting yourself to arrest for causing a public disturbance, even
if it would hold up in court. LEO's are all too happy to lock you
up and let the judicial system figure out that 'mistakes were made'
at a later date.


Regardless of what one thinks of his methods, his point is
basically
made.

If so, the method he used was stupid.
He isn't going to get his answers by being confrontational with the ID
checker. If someone does not have ID and needs to fly, the go to the
airline ticket counter, and tell them. This is an odd way to determine
what he was trying to determine. He knew damn well the check didn't work
for TSA. He should have known that arguing about the id requirement
with the checker was the wrong thing to do. It is the ID checker's job
to check id's, not to explain who he works for or why he is checking ids.

mrtravel wrote:
wrote:

Rog' wrote:

"Edward Hasbrouck" wrote:

Unanswered questions at Dulles Airport
Full story: http://hasbrouck.org/blog/archives/001065.html

Launching an investigation of how TSA operates their checkpoints,
while trying to catch a place, is IMO, not the brightest idea; nor is
subjecting yourself to arrest for causing a public disturbance, even
if it would hold up in court. LEO's are all too happy to lock you
up and let the judicial system figure out that 'mistakes were made'
at a later date.


Regardless of what one thinks of his methods, his point is
basically made.

If so, the method he used was stupid.

Well, as he explained, if he explains why he's asking, he'll
get one answer. If he just asks he'll get another. The second
answer is the one he's looking for, since it is the "functional"
answer instead of the "official" answer.

He isn't going to get his answers by being confrontational with the ID
checker.

Actually, he did get the information he was looking for (well, some
of it). Of course, the information he was seeking wasn't exactly
the answers to the questions he was asking.

If someone does not have ID and needs to fly, the go to the
airline ticket counter, and tell them.

Which really isn't what this guy was exploring.

This is an odd way to determine
what he was trying to determine. He knew damn well the check didn't work
for TSA. He should have known that arguing about the id requirement
with the checker was the wrong thing to do. It is the ID checker's job
to check id's, not to explain who he works for or why he is checking ids.

Actually, what he was exploring is just who can require display of
ID
under what authority. He hasn't found the limit yet, but he has found
the
answer is pretty close to "just about anyone".

Rog' wrote:
I might have been more sympathetic if the guy had tried to talk
these people without getting in line.

That would have been interfering with a airport security officer in the
course of his duties.

My sympathies go to the
people behind him who were just trying to thru the line. Bottom
line: I show my ID to cashiers at Wal-Mart, so why not this guy.

Oh, wait, I know this one......because he's a reporter specializing in
privacy issues and you're a sheep.

In article .com,
Darryl wrote:

My sympathies go to the
people behind him who were just trying to thru the line. Bottom
line: I show my ID to cashiers at Wal-Mart, so why not this guy.

Oh, wait, I know this one......because he's a reporter specializing in
privacy issues and you're a sheep.

Ahem... hasbrouck is not a reporter. He is a bloviator with a bee in
his bonnet. And he does not specialize in privacy issues, unless by
``specializing'' you mean endless, pointless bloviating and tedious
whining about airline security procedures, no matter how minor or
harmless.