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LA Times: U.S. Love Affair With The Car Ending



 
 
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  #71  
Old February 2nd, 2007, 10:32 AM posted to rec.travel.usa-canada,ba.transportation,misc.transport.urban-transit
Hans-Joachim Zierke
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Posts: 9
Default LA Times: U.S. Love Affair With The Car Ending


kkt schrieb:


Maybe it depends how good your railway network is. If you've got a
relatively sparse network of mostly single-track railroad, being able
to bulldoze a dirt road around a blockage would look pretty
attractive.


It didn't. Such cheaply built railroads, like those in the US West, are
easy and cheap to repair. Have a look at the records, which were set by
Chinese workers building the Transcontinental Railroad. This gives a
good impression of the amount of track, which can be built by hand in a
hurry.

Dirt roads are only the last resort, because moving armies over dirt
roads means gambling with weather and timing. A famously dumb guy
gambled and lost
http://mitglied.lycos.de/Dannipf/panzer49.jpg
against better advice, beaten by a coordinated effort of General Autumn,
General Winter, and General Spring.

But yes, your suggestion has been used practically. For example, after
a huge number of unsuccessful tries,
http://www.raf.mod.uk/bombercommand/images/c5085.jpg
the RAF finally got its "Grand Slam" in March '45,
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._Slam_bomb.jpg
http://www.gunnies.pac.com.au/galler...mlancaster.jpg
and after that, was finally able to bring down massive railroad
viaducts.
http://www.raf.mod.uk/bombercommand/images/c5086.jpg
After this kind of damage, the solution was called "dirt road" indeed.


Do you really think, that this argument was necessary? In Germany, which
was in a - ahem - slightly less fortunate economic situation, motorway
building restarted on a large scale in 1953, without any such argument.


There's traditional and constitutional separation of powers in the
U.S. While "post roads" is listed as a power of congress, before the
1920s transportation was mostly a matter for the states.


Quite similar in Germany. The federal level builds long distance roads
only, though there are some match funds for other roads.

But now lets go back to the 1950s. Back then, it was unanonimous
consent, that the private car would move us into a bright future. I'm
not aware of any opposition to speak of, over here. Was there any, in
the USA?
AFAIK, the first criticism, calculating that it can't possibly work,
dates from the early sixties, possibly late 50s.


It was also a new tax for a domestic program, which Republicans have
generally opposed. Calling it a defense program helped it go down
easier. Especially the 90% Federal funding; previous funding for
roads had been half to 60%.


I agree, that the 90% funding will have helped tremendously. ;-)


Hans-Joachim
  #72  
Old February 2nd, 2007, 10:54 AM posted to rec.travel.usa-canada,ba.transportation,misc.transport.urban-transit
Greg Sutherland
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Posts: 3
Default LA Times: U.S. Love Affair With The Car Ending

Jack, if you believe that someone who can produce a "learned" paper
which contains statements such as

"The digital TV refuseniks are implicitly associated with those who
resisted authority in the former Soviet Union: they are deviants,
implacably impeding government policy."

is someone who can be taken seriously, then you are an even greater sad
case than I previously thought.

Enjoy yourself in the Fifth Reich before they (the psychatric nurses)
ensure that you take your medication.

Have a nice day!

Greg





Jack May wrote:
"Bolwerk" wrote in message
...

David Nebenzahl wrote:

Jack May spake thus:


"Bolwerk" wrote in message
...


Jack May wrote:



You forgot to mention that everyone who takes a train is a pea-brained
laggard with a welfare check. Upstanding white folk such as yourself
should never stoop to such lows!



The British government did the latest work on trying to understand
technology laggards

http://www.mngt.waikato.ac.nz/ejrot/...%20laggards%22

Its not trains, it is all technologies. The British were trying to
understand technology laggards in their process to move towards digital TV.
Every technology transition I have ever followed had technology laggards
holding on the past and exclaiming loudly the inferiority the new
technology.

It has been Laser Disks vs DVD, records vs CD vs MP3, and so on.

I think it is genetic since it is so wide spread and so certain. The 16% of
people being technology laggards and their characteristics in society are
from the study. The study was trying to find out if there were any reasons
for the attitudes of the laggards.

So you are not special in supporting trains, you are just one of many
laggards in many fields. with laggards probably tending to reject any change
they encounter.

The other 16% are at the start of the technology and early adoption. That
is my category which makes my view is at the extreme opposite of laggards
which is why there is conflict.

The remaining 68% is the many users that decide they like the new technology
better than the old technology and switch to that new technology.


  #74  
Old February 2nd, 2007, 07:40 PM posted to rec.travel.usa-canada,ba.transportation,misc.transport.urban-transit
Don Kirkman
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Posts: 75
Default LA Times: U.S. Love Affair With The Car Ending

It seems to me I heard somewhere that Hans-Joachim Zierke wrote in
article :

kkt schrieb:


Maybe it depends how good your railway network is. If you've got a
relatively sparse network of mostly single-track railroad, being able
to bulldoze a dirt road around a blockage would look pretty
attractive.


It didn't. Such cheaply built railroads, like those in the US West, are
easy and cheap to repair. Have a look at the records, which were set by
Chinese workers building the Transcontinental Railroad. This gives a
good impression of the amount of track, which can be built by hand in a
hurry.


Slight expansion: the Chinese built from the western terminal; the
crews building from the eastern end had many Irish and other European
immigrants. IIUC Cornish miners were particular involved in tunneling.

[. . .]
--
Don Kirkman
  #75  
Old February 2nd, 2007, 08:07 PM posted to rec.travel.usa-canada,ba.transportation,misc.transport.urban-transit
David Nebenzahl
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Posts: 60
Default LA Times: U.S. Love Affair With The Car Ending

Hans-Joachim Zierke spake thus:

[...]

But now lets go back to the 1950s. Back then, it was unanonimous
consent, that the private car would move us into a bright future. I'm
not aware of any opposition to speak of, over here. Was there any, in
the USA?


There was, at least in the San Francisco Bay Area:
http://www.bikesummer.org/1999/zine/freewayRevolt.htm


--
Don't talk to me, those of you who must need to be slammed in the
forehead with a maul before you'll GET IT that Wikipedia is a
time-wasting, totality of CRAP...don't talk to me, don't keep bleating
like naifs, that we should somehow waste MORE of our lives writing a
variorum text that would be put up on that site.

It is a WASTE OF TIME.

- Harlan Ellison, writing on the "talk page" of his Wikipedia article
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Harlan_Ellison)
  #76  
Old February 2nd, 2007, 08:20 PM posted to rec.travel.usa-canada,ba.transportation,misc.transport.urban-transit
Doug McDonald
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Posts: 86
Default LA Times: U.S. Love Affair With The Car Ending



But now lets go back to the 1950s. Back then, it was unanonimous
consent, that the private car would move us into a bright future. I'm
not aware of any opposition to speak of, over here. Was there any, in
the USA?



Not significant. And, of course, that sentiment was CORRECT: the
private car indeed is a huge part of the greatness that still
is America today. True, the Left is trying mightily to destroy the
American standard of living, but they are succeeding only very
slowly. Many young people in the US do not understand
how much better things could be if we had continued on as we were
in the 50 and 60s.

Doug McDonald
  #77  
Old February 3rd, 2007, 03:57 AM posted to rec.travel.usa-canada,ba.transportation,misc.transport.urban-transit
Bolwerk
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Posts: 87
Default LA Times: U.S. Love Affair With The Car Ending

Doug McDonald wrote:
Many young people in the US do not understand
how much better things could be if we had continued on as we were
in the 50 and 60s.


McCarthyism, segregation, back alley abortions, and mutually assured
destruction? Par-tay, man!
  #78  
Old February 3rd, 2007, 04:14 PM posted to rec.travel.usa-canada,ba.transportation,misc.transport.urban-transit
Doug McDonald
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Posts: 86
Default LA Times: U.S. Love Affair With The Car Ending

Bolwerk wrote:
Doug McDonald wrote:
Many young people in the US do not understand
how much better things could be if we had continued on as we were
in the 50 and 60s.


McCarthyism, segregation, back alley abortions, and mutually assured
destruction? Par-tay, man!


No, I am referring to freedom. Something people in Europe
don't even have the concept of.

Note, of course, the cross post list for context.

Doug McDonald
  #79  
Old February 3rd, 2007, 05:55 PM posted to rec.travel.usa-canada,ba.transportation,misc.transport.urban-transit
Frank F. Matthews
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Posts: 1,362
Default LA Times: U.S. Love Affair With The Car Ending



Doug McDonald wrote:

Bolwerk wrote:

Doug McDonald wrote:

Many young people in the US do not understand
how much better things could be if we had continued on as we were
in the 50 and 60s.



McCarthyism, segregation, back alley abortions, and mutually assured
destruction? Par-tay, man!



No, I am referring to freedom. Something people in Europe
don't even have the concept of.

Note, of course, the cross post list for context.

Doug McDonald


As was pointed out the 50s in particular had significant problems.
Particularly with the idea of freedom in the US.

Consider again the concepts of McCarthyism & segregation for starters.

  #80  
Old February 3rd, 2007, 06:07 PM posted to rec.travel.usa-canada,ba.transportation,misc.transport.urban-transit
Baxter
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Posts: 8
Default LA Times: U.S. Love Affair With The Car Ending

-
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Free software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------


"Doug McDonald" wrote in message
...
Bolwerk wrote:
Doug McDonald wrote:
Many young people in the US do not understand
how much better things could be if we had continued on as we were
in the 50 and 60s.


McCarthyism, segregation, back alley abortions, and mutually assured
destruction? Par-tay, man!


No, I am referring to freedom.


Weren't any freedom for blacks. Or women. Or a host of other groups.


 




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