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#51
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JFK Airtrain: Good News, Bad News, Good News and Bad News
"Joe Versaggi" wrote in message ... Sancho Panza wrote: They charge those who come in by mass transit a parking fee. If they did include the parking fee, the charge would be $10, not $5. As it stands, the reverse has been the fact for more than 20 years. They do charge $10 - for the roundtrip. Presumably, one who takes Airtrain to JFK takes it returning as well. For a ride of 2 or 3 miles each way to Jamaica, that is excessive, particularly for a manless operation. It's really a rip-off for Howard Beach. Still better off taking the Q10 from Kew Gardens however slow. Unless you value your time. If I've just spent $800 to fly 14 hours to Asia for instance, an extra $5 to skip a local city bus is no big deal. Really, this is such a small part of your overall trip cost, I'd rather just pack sandwiches and skip the airport food court than skimp a net $3 on ground transportation to get there. If you work there, it's a whole different story, since you'd multiply the above by 20. Isn't that really what the whole argument about $5 is about? For that, I'd expect employee shuttles from rail stations. Is there any? |
#52
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JFK Airtrain: Good News, Bad News, Good News and Bad News
mrtravelkay wrote:
What form of transit did they use to get to the parking lot before Airtrain? Was there a charge for it? There was a free bus service that covered both the parking lot and the Howard Beach subway station (which was adjacent to one of the long-term lots; the bus didn't really leave the parking lot). miguel -- Hundreds of travel photos from around the world: http://travel.u.nu/ |
#53
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JFK Airtrain: Good News, Bad News, Good News and Bad News
Robert Coté wrote:
The whole concept of "free parking" has been confusing since the Monopoly game put in the square. There is no free parking, it costs to purchase land, build and maintain and somebody ends up paying for it. It's bundled in the price of goods purchased at the big box or mall. It's bundled in the movie ticket price, etc. However, this is a two sided coin. Those big box prices are lower precisely because of the large parking lot and business model built around it. You get those low everyday prices even if you arrive by walking. In that case the parking lot subsidizes pedestrians. No it doesn't; that's not what "subsidize" means. Pedestrians don't add any costs to be subsidized; in fact they are cheaper than drivers because they don't push the parking lot usage closer to the expansion-or-frustration tipping point. Their purchases contribute to the bottom line just as much as drivers' purchases. miguel -- Hundreds of travel photos from around the world: http://travel.u.nu/ |
#54
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JFK Airtrain: Good News, Bad News, Good News and Bad News
David J. Greenberger wrote:
There are two station exits, one to the parking lot and one to the subway and neighborhood. Only the latter has faregates. Even the direct /walking/ route from Howard Beach (the neighborhood or the subway station) to the airport now has a $5 fee in each direction. Is it possible to walk out the parking lot exit and around to the subway station? miguel -- Hundreds of travel photos from around the world: http://travel.u.nu/ |
#55
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JFK Airtrain: Good News, Bad News, Good News and Bad News
On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 19:30:53 GMT (Miguel Cruz) wrote:
:David J. Greenberger wrote: : There are two station exits, one to the parking lot and one to the : subway and neighborhood. Only the latter has faregates. Even the : direct /walking/ route from Howard Beach (the neighborhood or the : subway station) to the airport now has a $5 fee in each direction. :Is it possible to walk out the parking lot exit and around to the subway :station? I was wondering that as well. -- Binyamin Dissen http://www.dissensoftware.com |
#56
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JFK Airtrain: Good News, Bad News, Good News and Bad News
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#58
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JFK Airtrain: Good News, Bad News, Good News and Bad News
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#59
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JFK Airtrain: Good News, Bad News, Good News and Bad News
It is kinda a funny use of the word subsidize. But the posters point
is that the walk up guy benefits from the parking lot, whether he parks or not. The store is able to deliver the products they have at the price they do because of all of them SUV driving customers. If they had to rely upon walk up business only, the selection would be narrower, and the prices higher. As such, the pedestrian customer has an interest in bearing the same burden for the parking lot cost of business as the folks who actually park there. You mean the big box stores that have low prices because of the economy of scale involved in selling to people who fill the back end of their SUVs and minivans with a pallet worth of stuff are subsidizing the walk up customer who just buys what he can put in his little urban shopping cart? I mean, in one transaction, the SUV guy probably spends in the $100-200 range for month supplies of stuff, while the walkup guy likely spends in the $50 range for a week or two worth of stuff at a higher unit cost than the SUV guy. Plus, he takes up the same amount of "store resources" to make his purchase, in terms of space and employee time to process his transaction, assuming it takes the same amount of time to scan a barcode whether its a single roll of paper towels or the 12-pack, so he probably makes 3-4 visits in a month instead of one. OTOH, the store makes more profit off the walkup guy in a shopping cart. I guess someone would argue that the walkup guy is subsidizing the SUV guy, but I'd suspect the whole thing is close to a wash. There's an old story about a guy who makes leather purses. He gets leather from cows that are being slaughtered for food. If he doesn't make purses out of them, the leather is discarded. So he gets a pretty good price for the leather. The accusation is that the steak eaters are subsidizing the purse buyers. Then his purses get so popular that the purse buyers become an excuse to slaughter the cow, whether the meat is needed or not. So the price of cow meat drops. Now the purse customers claim to be subsidizing the meat eaters. But it's easy to understand how some folks see it that way. But really no one is subsidizing anyone since they'd all be buying meat or purses regardless. They do have a symbiotic relationship however. This is a pretty smart example, though the point where leather demand exceeds corresponding beef demand, the input price changes dramatically. Haven't sat in an econ class in better than 10 years, but my guess is that the purse buyers would technically be correct only if their purse price rises. |
#60
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JFK Airtrain: Good News, Bad News, Good News and Bad News
In article ,
"Baxter" wrote: -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Free software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Robert Coté" wrote in message ... is directly on topic. The Portland light rail extension, AirMAX, is significantly financed by the $3 PFC that every commercial air passenger pays coming and going. Well, not quite, bobby - that $3 only covers the part of AirMAX that is on Airport property. And Tri-Met, Metro, City of, and the Port authority are famous for their rigorous financial firewalls. Those trains run all the way to Beaverton (on the other side of downtown). Also, that $3 is only on departures - not both ways. You are correct. I should have said "coming through and going" to make that clearer. And do note, the $3 fee only applies to construction (airport share = ~$28 million) - not operating costs. Yeah riiiight. $28 million. Hmmm, generating $1.3 million per month it should only be around for 22 months. 'Course, you're welcome to challenge this - but to do so would undermine most of your other arguments about how much LRT costs. Not at all. |
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