If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#11
|
|||
|
|||
African Doctors
Graham wrote:
this sounds so much like the arguement about Kiwis in Oz. The Kiwis seem to dislike Australia and Aussies, but they plan never to return to NZ. I have known quite a few Kiwis in my time..but they neve rwant to leave..or become citizens. They take more than they give You'd have evidence for this claim would you? I believe I have read that kiwis in Australia generally pay more income tax and take less in welfare than australian born people. Furthermore, they typically arrive here after the expensive years in which the New Zealand state has paid to educate them and bring them up to their income earning, tax paying, productive years. Young adult immigrants area a bargain to any country. They come to a country virtually free, after someone else has invested in education, healthcare, etc to bring them to working age. |
#12
|
|||
|
|||
African Doctors
Oh dear, you're in a huff now because I don't value citizenship and ceremonies and fancy certificates which change nothing. They change a great deal. If, as you have stated, you are neither Australian nor want to be, you shouldn't be there. You live in a country which has educated you, provided you with a job, medical care, and so on (yes, you pay taxes - the absolute minimum you can get away with, apparently, since part of your citizenship objection is the cost of obtaining it). You live in a country that values its people - your comment above reflects the value you put on it. I'm saddened you're in a wonderful country, but glad you're not in mine. |
#13
|
|||
|
|||
African Doctors
"Raffi Balmanoukian" a wrote in message news:BC5F6682.210A8%walkabout@TAKEOUTTHETRASHTOREP LY.ns.sympatico.ca... Oh dear, you're in a huff now because I don't value citizenship and ceremonies and fancy certificates which change nothing. They change a great deal. If, as you have stated, you are neither Australian nor want to be, you shouldn't be there. You live in a country which has educated you, provided you with a job, medical care, and so on (yes, you pay taxes - the absolute minimum you can get away with, apparently, since part of your citizenship objection is the cost of obtaining it). You live in a country that values its people - your comment above reflects the value you put on it. I'm saddened you're in a wonderful country, but glad you're not in mine. never fear....They wont come to you.....they never leave Oz. gra |
#14
|
|||
|
|||
African Doctors
"Paul Dwerryhouse" wrote in message news:avg_b.662647$_x2.1417031@zonnet-reader-1... "Graham" writes: this sounds so much like the arguement about Kiwis in Oz. The Kiwis seem to dislike Australia and Aussies, but they plan never to return to NZ. I have known quite a few Kiwis in my time..but they neve rwant to leave..or become citizens. Why should they? Australia & New Zealand allow (mostly) reciprocal free movement and work between their respective citizens, in much the same way that EU countries do. Are you going to argue that long-term EU expats should take up citizenship of the countries that they live in? I actually couldn't give give a damn about long-term EU expats I just wonder why Kiwis hate us so much, but never go back to the land of the wrong white crowd...Have you ever heard a Kiwi praise Oz ? They take more than they give Nationalist nonsense. no, its a line from " It should have been me" so for being Patriotic..you should try it one day. gra -- Paul Dwerryhouse | PGP Key ID: Amsterdam, The Netherlands (X) - Melbourne, Australia ( ) | 0x6B91B584 |
#15
|
|||
|
|||
African Doctors
in article 8pC_b.680221$_x2.1436842@zonnet-reader-1, Paul Dwerryhouse at
wrote on 2/24/04 2:44 AM: "Graham" writes: so for being Patriotic..you should try it one day. Patriotism is a sign of abject stupity. Every country has individuals who believe that their own country is the "best place in the world" and they can't all be right. The UN Human Development Index had Canada as "best" for many years, a placement that our Prime Minister trotted out ad nauseum at every opportunity. In 2001, Australia took over top ranking. It was huge news in Canada (it slipped to #3 behind, I believe, Norway). It was barely mentioned, and hardly news, in Australia that their island continent was now, according to UN standards, "the best place in the world." I think it was because it was telling them what they already knew. I'll leave it to the morons who go to flag raising ceremonies on Australia day. Trolling, the last refuge of the scoundrel. |
#16
|
|||
|
|||
African Doctors
in article NvH_b.683352$_x2.1441912@zonnet-reader-1, Paul Dwerryhouse at
wrote on 2/24/04 8:32 AM: Trolling, the last refuge of the scoundrel. No, I genuinely believe that people who willingly go to flag raising ceremonies are morons, participating in a pointless tribal ritual. As one of our former PMs (Trudeau) opined about insults directed at him (by Nixon): "I've been called worse things by better people." Now excuse me. The flagS outside my house need adjusting. |
#17
|
|||
|
|||
African Doctors
Oh dear, you're in a huff now because I don't value citizenship and
ceremonies and fancy certificates which change nothing. Raffi Balmanoukian wrote: They change a great deal. If, as you have stated, you are neither Australian nor want to be, you shouldn't be there. You live in a country which has educated you, provided you with a job, medical care, and so on (yes, you pay taxes - the absolute minimum you can get away with, apparently, since part of your citizenship objection is the cost of obtaining it). I'm sorry, I didn't realise genuine patriotic Australians volunteer to pay extra taxes. Clearly I am not worthy. You live in a country that values its people - your comment above reflects the value you put on it. No it doesn't. It reflects the value I place on citizenship, not on Australia. I am a citizen of two other countries, one of which I lived in until I was five, the other of which I have visited for a total of perhaps 4 weeks of my life. My home is Australia, and I don't need a certificate from the government to prove it. Let's face it, it wouldn't prove anything anyway, any more than a marriage licence proves spouses won't stray, since all I have to do is pay my money and say the right things. |
#18
|
|||
|
|||
African Doctors
Raffi Balmanoukian wrote:
As one of our former PMs (Trudeau) opined about insults directed at him (by Nixon): "I've been called worse things by better people." Reminds me of Piggy Muldoon's (past NZ PM) famous comment. In reply to a journalist's question about a supposed brain drain from NZ to Australia. He said he wasn't concerned because migration from NZ to Australia was improving the average IQ in both countries. Of course Graham would rather see NZ immigrants as some sort of freeloaders, whilst NZ worries about losing their best and brightest to us. So which is it? Now excuse me. The flagS outside my house need adjusting. I guess having the US overshadowing you so closely does rather put a different tint on the whole patriotism nonsense. I'm sure you will have heard this one before, but for the entertainment of the Aussies: Some years ago a Canadian newspaper ran a competition. Along the lines of "As American as apple pie", the contestants had to complete the phrase "As Canadian as .....". The winning entry was: "As Canadian as possible under the circumstances." |
#19
|
|||
|
|||
African Doctors
Of course Graham would rather see NZ immigrants as some sort of
freeloaders, whilst NZ worries about losing their best and brightest to us. So which is it? Wouldn't the best and brightest Kiwi's be the ones who realize they can come here and freeload? |
#20
|
|||
|
|||
African Doctors
On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 01:58:41 +1100, Graham W
wrote: No it doesn't. It reflects the value I place on citizenship, not on Australia. I am a citizen of two other countries, one of which I lived in until I was five, the other of which I have visited for a total of perhaps 4 weeks of my life. My home is Australia, and I don't need a certificate from the government to prove it. Let's face it, it wouldn't prove anything anyway, any more than a marriage licence proves spouses won't stray, since all I have to do is pay my money and say the right things. This will be my first and last comment after following this thread for a while. I don't care which country a person decides to settle in, if they do not become a citizen of that country then they are a free-loader. There is far more to citizenship than paying taxes. For you, of course, if the Oz government decided to discriminate in favour of citizens when providing services, welfare etc. you'd be the first to claim that was unfair and undemocratic. But then, how can anything be undemocratic if you elect not to be a voter? Voting is compulsory for all Oz citizens not in jail. Obviously, as a non-citizen, you would get out of military service, jury duty or any other form of service to your adopted country. So you are prepared to accept the security of our stable government, but you are not prepared to support or defend it. But be careful if you travel to those countries where you are a citizen; you may find you owe them some military service. You will also find that, if you are unlucky enough to be charged with something criminal whilst away from Oz, you may have some difficulty as a non-citizen in getting back into the country. You may then find your only option is to settle in one of those other countries. Do a little googling and you'll also find several cases where people have been deported to countries they haven't seen since birth (and often don't speak the language) after committing criminal offences here. It couldn't happen to you? For example: manslaughter resulting from careless driving is a criminal offence. You're like the friend who came to visit, but neglected to leave; pleasant company until the realisation sets in that this guest intends to bludge off the rest of us forever. Goodbye. Alan |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Awesome African Safari | Dirk Waldik | Africa | 2 | May 5th, 2004 06:52 PM |
web pages for african visas | BZH | Africa | 0 | April 20th, 2004 12:23 PM |
South African Airways joins Star Alliance | Dennis G. Rears | Air travel | 4 | March 9th, 2004 06:48 PM |
African Doctors | Mr.Taxi | Africa | 3 | February 21st, 2004 02:47 PM |
UK/South African Adaptor | Keith | Africa | 1 | November 2nd, 2003 07:50 PM |