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When You Hear The Heavy Accent & The Poor Phone Connection... HANGUP!!! ------ 2tDMpvDi



 
 
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  #21  
Old March 29th, 2004, 11:33 PM
John L
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Default When You Hear The Heavy Accent & The Poor Phone Connection... HANG UP!!! ------ 2tDMpvDi

On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 22:11:12 +1000, "Peter Webb"
wrote:


"John L" wrote in message
news
You seem to base all your arguments on how I think, what I buy,
& what my occupation is. Therefore your arguments have absolutely no
validity, as you have no idea what I buy, how I think or my
profession.


Look back at the thread. You speculated on my employment - specifically that
I worked for a telco or Bank. I did not speculate on yours.


Perhaps you would like to give some validity to those
spurious statements by stating what my profession is


Ummm where did I do that? No its not "or is [he]
simply employed in one of these industries as a manager". That was YOU
speculating on MY employment.

Forgetting which side you are arguing on?

No, just aware of your less than subtle comments regarding my
credentials re banks & telcos. Obviouslyf you don't believe my
statement regarding my profession, so lets hear your thoughtrs on it.

& what brand of
shoe I wear, I don'y buy inferior products or your inferior arguments.

Try to stick to facts & don't impose your fantasies regarding the
buying habits & thoughts of other people. It appears you believe a
little spin makes your own arguments appear more legitimate.. Your own
hypocrisy is breathtaking.


Gee, so I guess this is put up or shut up time. Do you buy Australian made
shoes? From where? How much did they cost?
How about your clothes - made in Australia, or at an overseas factory? Of
course, your kids toys - no doubt all made in Australia?


More assumptions on my spending habits as well as my family
circumstances. As you were the one that raised spending habits, let's
hear a little about yours. State your credentials.

Unless you have never bought a pair of shoes that cost less than $300 (and
this is the time and place to state this is true), you have made an economic
cost-cutting decision to use an outsourced offshore supplier - exactly the
same behaviour as you critisice the Banks for. This makes you a "greediest &
most socially immoral entity" - somewhat worse than the Banks and telcos, as


More about my spending habits. Nice emotive term, adds heat but not
much light to your argument.

1. They are not flaming hypocrites


Your words, not mine.

2. You did it long before you did


I did what, before I did what?

3. They act this way to save some-one else's money - their shareholders -
you do it for completely selfish reasons.


Thank you for the free consultation, more assumptions of my motives &
the motives of company directors.on your part.

If you support overseas call centres why do you call the Indians
idiots for playing Indian music, would it be better in your eyes if
they conned people into believing they were in Australia.


Better for them, yes. Because there are people who (rightly or wrongly)
believe that the call centre industry should be protected from overseas
competition.


Possibly the majority of thinking Australians would fall into this
group. No I don't speak for them, just understand the average
Aussie's feelings.
..
Your attempt
to add a little (cough) racism says more about your own moral outlook
than any of your spurious arguments. You'd do Warney proud with your
spin.


Missed this one, did we?

It's more than a little curious why the companies would prefer their
customers not know the call centres were overseas. Could it be they
are aware of the slippery moral grounds for outsourcing?


No. Its purely a matter of business. They win no friends in Australia by
moving their call centres offshore. Doesn't of course mean that they are
wrong to do so, its just that they have better things to do than explain
macro-economic theory to bozzos on newsgroups.


Lucky we have you, the consumate expert to do this. Your credentials
are?

Where is the
benefit to the Australian consumer when it puts other Australians out
of work & the taxpayer has to foot the unemployemnt bill.


Your comment? Or is this one too hard?


Everybody else in the developed world understood this argument 50 years ago.


You asked everybody, you speak for everyone in the developed world?
More spin.

Lets take it from the top.

Q) How is moving a call centre offshore morally different to moving a shoe
manufacturing facility offshore?


Probably none, are you using Nike as an example?

Or do you think Australia should prohibit the importation of shoes,
textiles, pharmaceuticals, factory equipment, aircraft, industrial
chemicals, software, and patent rights from overseas? Alternatively, if you
think that these industries should be open to offshore competition, explain
to me just one more time why call centres should be protected when none of
these other (strategically more important) industries are not?


Australia can't exist as a customer nation, we need to take a stand
somwhere. I am not responsible for short sighted government policies.
You obviously prefer the lemming principle.

Do that, and you can kick my arse with the $400 shoes, hand made in the
Strand Arcade, that you are presumably wearing.


I wouldn't bother, they would fit better in your mouth.

John L.



  #22  
Old March 30th, 2004, 01:52 AM
John L
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Default When You Hear The Heavy Accent & The Poor Phone Connection... HANG UP!!! ------ 2tDMpvDi

Two highly intelligent comments from Michael & Miquel, I would have
expected something a little better than that from Miquel.

Unfortunately on forums such as this, the truth is hard to define,
therefore hard to accept. I stand by my comments.

John L

On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 16:01:32 GMT, Miguel Cruz wrote:

John L wrote:
Your obviously don't believe in the adage"it's better to shut your mouth &
be thought a fool, than open it & prove it". My profession involves
consultancies with both telcos & banks, & I'm quite aware of the
Corporations act. I don't believe it says anywhere in the act that
companies have to act immorally.

None of the companies I deal with have outsourced & all are showing higher
profits than their counterparts.


Uh huh.

miguel


  #23  
Old March 30th, 2004, 02:09 AM
Miguel Cruz
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Default When You Hear The Heavy Accent & The Poor Phone Connection... HANG UP!!! ------ 2tDMpvDi

John L wrote:
Miguel Cruz wrote:
John L wrote:
Your obviously don't believe in the adage"it's better to shut your mouth &
be thought a fool, than open it & prove it". My profession involves
consultancies with both telcos & banks, & I'm quite aware of the
Corporations act. I don't believe it says anywhere in the act that
companies have to act immorally.

None of the companies I deal with have outsourced & all are showing higher
profits than their counterparts.


Uh huh.


Two highly intelligent comments from Michael & Miquel, I would have
expected something a little better than that from Miquel.


Your assertion is very hard to believe, or if believed, to find relevant.

Assuming it is accurate, there are three reasonable possibilities:

1) You work with such a small proportion of companies - or outsourcing is so
rare in general - that any observed correlation is meaningless;

2) There is a causative relationship such that outsourcing results in
reduced profitability, and yet all these companies irrationally persist in
doing so; or

3) There is a causative relationship such that low profitability encourages
outsourcing, in which case it's irrelevant.

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
  #24  
Old March 30th, 2004, 02:38 AM
John L
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Default When You Hear The Heavy Accent & The Poor Phone Connection... HANG UP!!! ------ 2tDMpvDi

Recently on TV in Australia we were shown an Indian class being held
for would be call centre employees in India. The female Indian teacher
was trying to teach the class to say "gdday mate, how are you goin
mate" & other aussie terms, with an Australian accent. If like most
Americans you have tried to say this, you'll know how strange it
sounds even from another native English non Australian speaker. This
is more likely to crack the caller up with laughter & make then forget
why they called.

I have nothing against Indians per se (my best mate is one), but the
last offshore call centre employee I spoke to could not answer a
single question I asked, & had to put me on hold every time to refer
the question to head office of the bank in Australia. The call took 15
minutes & the Australian office still had to contact me to fully
answer my simple queries. This is part of the large company syndrome
(yes, banks & telcos included) where their time is considered
important & the amount of time the customer wastes is unimportant.

In theory the idea of offshore call centres is fine, in practice the
end user of the service, the customer, is the loser. Tell me that
makes good corporate sense.

John L.

On Mon, 29 Mar 2004 16:03:25 GMT, Miguel Cruz wrote:

John L wrote:
If you support overseas call centres why do you call the Indians
idiots for playing Indian music, would it be better in your eyes if
they conned people into believing they were in Australia.


It would be better if they tried as hard as possible to make potentially
anxious callers feel comfortable.

miguel


  #25  
Old March 30th, 2004, 03:21 AM
John L
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Default When You Hear The Heavy Accent & The Poor Phone Connection... HANG UP!!! ------ 2tDMpvDi

Thanks for the somewhat more considered reply to my postings. Your
assumptions are still a little off the mark but without compromising
my relationships wiyh my clients I will not continue this thread.

If you, or more likely Peter Webb consider that a win, that is your
prerogative.

John L.

On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 01:09:29 GMT, Miguel Cruz wrote:


Your assertion is very hard to believe, or if believed, to find relevant.

Assuming it is accurate, there are three reasonable possibilities:

1) You work with such a small proportion of companies - or outsourcing is so
rare in general - that any observed correlation is meaningless;

2) There is a causative relationship such that outsourcing results in
reduced profitability, and yet all these companies irrationally persist in
doing so; or

3) There is a causative relationship such that low profitability encourages
outsourcing, in which case it's irrelevant.

miguel


  #26  
Old March 30th, 2004, 03:45 AM
Miguel Cruz
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Default When You Hear The Heavy Accent & The Poor Phone Connection... HANG UP!!! ------ 2tDMpvDi

John L wrote:
Recently on TV in Australia we were shown an Indian class being held
for would be call centre employees in India. The female Indian teacher
was trying to teach the class to say "gdday mate, how are you goin
mate" & other aussie terms, with an Australian accent. If like most
Americans you have tried to say this, you'll know how strange it
sounds even from another native English non Australian speaker. This
is more likely to crack the caller up with laughter & make then forget
why they called.


At the end of my two years in Australia I was able to pass for Australian
for at least 5 or 10 minutes (can't anymore, but that was a long time ago).
Just a matter of training and experience.

I have nothing against Indians per se (my best mate is one), but the
last offshore call centre employee I spoke to could not answer a
single question I asked, & had to put me on hold every time to refer
the question to head office of the bank in Australia. The call took 15
minutes & the Australian office still had to contact me to fully
answer my simple queries.


Sounds to me like the company in question didn't choose to invest enough in
adequate training or screening or whatever. It has nothing to do with
whether or not the call center was in India. I have had many interactions
with extremely knowledgeable Indian call center operators, and many bad ones
with US operators. All a matter of budget and priorities.

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
  #27  
Old March 30th, 2004, 03:49 AM
Peter Webb
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Default When You Hear The Heavy Accent & The Poor Phone Connection... HANG UP!!! ------ 2tDMpvDi

Your argument seems to have degenerated into you saying:

"I am a consultant to banks and telcos. Therefore I know what I am talking
about. You have not stated your professional qualifications, therefor your
argument is wrong"

I would prefer to argue the merits of the moral argument, as this would
appear independent of the employment of the person advancing the argument.
But as an aside, and as already stated:

1. I do not work for Banks or telcos.
2. I am not professionally involved in call centres.

My questions (not statements) concerning your purchasing habits were an
attempt to determine your moral position and its consistency.

So lets take this from the top; straight answers please:

1. Have you ever bought a pair of shoes manufactured off-shore? (Hint, if
they cost less than about $300, they weren't made in Australia).

2, Assuming you have ever bought a pair of shoes worth less than $300, what
is the moral difference between your decision to use offshore labour for
cheap shoes and the banks decision to use offshore labour for call centres
(other than you are spending your own money, and Banks are spending
shareholders money)?



  #28  
Old March 30th, 2004, 04:33 AM
michael
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Posts: n/a
Default When You Hear The Heavy Accent & The Poor Phone Connection...HANG UP!!! ------ 2tDMpvDi



John L wrote:
Thanks for the somewhat more considered reply to my postings. Your
assumptions are still a little off the mark but without compromising
my relationships wiyh my clients I will not continue this thread.



bwahahaha... more thought...huh


michael

  #29  
Old March 30th, 2004, 04:34 AM
michael
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Default When You Hear The Heavy Accent & The Poor Phone Connection...HANG UP!!! ------ 2tDMpvDi



John L wrote:

I have nothing against Indians per se (my best mate is one),


bwahahahahahaha....bwahahahahahaha...bwahahahahaha ha


michael

  #30  
Old March 30th, 2004, 11:06 PM
John L
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Posts: n/a
Default When You Hear The Heavy Accent & The Poor Phone Connection... HANG UP!!! ------ 2tDMpvDi

I owe you nothing Pete, I stated my opinions, you don't like them
that's tough. Try to get over your shoe fetish & go back to your bike
riding & bench pressing & I'll get on with my business. As I stated to
Miguel, you can chalk it up as a win in your strange world where
winnig at everythig is important.

John L.

On Tue, 30 Mar 2004 12:49:54 +1000, "Peter Webb"
wrote:

Your argument seems to have degenerated into you saying:

"I am a consultant to banks and telcos. Therefore I know what I am talking
about. You have not stated your professional qualifications, therefor your
argument is wrong"

I would prefer to argue the merits of the moral argument, as this would
appear independent of the employment of the person advancing the argument.
But as an aside, and as already stated:

1. I do not work for Banks or telcos.
2. I am not professionally involved in call centres.

My questions (not statements) concerning your purchasing habits were an
attempt to determine your moral position and its consistency.

So lets take this from the top; straight answers please:

1. Have you ever bought a pair of shoes manufactured off-shore? (Hint, if
they cost less than about $300, they weren't made in Australia).

2, Assuming you have ever bought a pair of shoes worth less than $300, what
is the moral difference between your decision to use offshore labour for
cheap shoes and the banks decision to use offshore labour for call centres
(other than you are spending your own money, and Banks are spending
shareholders money)?



 




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