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#11
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European trip ?'s
PTRAVEL wrote:
"jst" wrote in message news:77juf.1487$Dh.457@dukeread04... Ken Blake wrote: jst wrote: Our family of three( 2 adults & 17 y/o )are considering a trip to Europe this summer. We would want to spend at least 2-3 days in London then 5-7 days going from France ( Paris a must ) to Switzerland ( the alps ). We have traveled the states extensively and have never been overseas.Is this the type of trip that we should do exclusively with a travel agency and do the group tour bit. We have never been the types to do a group tour but would do one if we could find the right locations included. Your choice, of course, but personally I hate group tours and always make plans on my own. We are just starting to look into this and any recommendations would be appreciated. We are budgeting 10 - 15 thousand , is this reasonable ??? 10-15 thousand what? If you mean US dollars, for 7-10 days for 3 people, it should be more than sufficient unless you insist on first-class everything. First class everything for my family, you must be kidding. LOL. We have saved a while for this trip as gift for our daughter who reaaallly wants to go. Any Ideas on where to start planning? Decide on the cities you want to visit (though 3 days is barely enough to scratch the surface of London, and a week is just enough to give you a nice feel for Paris). Since this is your first trip to Europe, I wouldn't spend it running from city to city. Remember, too, that your arrival day is pretty much shot, even if you're one of the lucky few who doesn't suffer much from jet lag. I can't make recommendations in the Alps -- my experience of Switzerland is limited to Zurich -- but I'd suggest trying to plan an open jaw trip, i.e. fly into one city and home from another. There is no cost penalty to do this, and avoids having to backtrack. Remember that summer is high season for European travel -- you usually can do better, airfare-and-hotel-wise, if you travel in the shoulder seasons, April/May or October/November. Also remember that August is the month of La Grande Vacance, when the French traditionally vacation. I'd recommend that you pick up a couple of good guide books to start. My wife and I like the DK Eyewitness series -- they're beautifully illustrated and make nice souvenirs after the trip. They contain illustrated neighborhood maps, and will help you decide where you want to stay. They also contain hotel recommendations, which will give you a starting place. You'll do better on airfares if you arrive and depart midweek. Once you've selected your gateway cities, and priced airfare, just move on to selecting your hotels. To get from London to Paris you'll want to take the train under the channel. Last time I checked, first class was around $350 US per person -- a bit pricey, but it takes you from city center to city center, saving a huge amount of time and money over flying, as you do not have to get to the airports, which are fairly distant from London and Paris. For Paris to Switzerland, consider the train. European trains are comfortable, reliable and inexpensive. In any city, we always try to schedule day trips. These are particularly easy from London and Paris, as both are central hubs for train travel. For London, one of our favorite excursions was to Bath, a beautiful Georgian city about one hour away. For Paris, a day trip to Versailles is almost a requirement. Within each city, it's really a question of what you enjoy -- are you an art museum and old castle kind of person? Shopping and culture? Pub crawler? Thank you very much, this is exactly the type of response I was looking for. $350 US per person How long of a trip is this ? I guess I will have to ready myself for a different culture and standards. |
#12
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European trip ?'s
"jst" wrote in message news:ffkuf.1496$Dh.670@dukeread04... Jim Ley wrote: On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 17:37:12 -0600, jst wrote: Our family of three( 2 adults & 17 y/o )are considering a trip to Europe this summer. We would want to spend at least 2-3 days in London then 5-7 days going from France ( Paris a must ) to Switzerland ( the alps ). We have traveled the states extensively and have never been overseas.Is this the type of trip that we should do exclusively with a travel agency and do the group tour bit. We have never been the types to do a group tour but would do one if we could find the right locations included. We are just starting to look into this and any recommendations would be appreciated. We are budgeting 10 - 15 thousand , is this reasonable ??? You can easily organise this yourself, London is obviously completely trivial for you, you speak English, and we're very used to American tourists, and the same with Paris of course. First step is to find a flight - open jaw Your place to London / Geneva, you should be able to get this for under 1500 USD each (depending on where you are in the US which I'm assuming). Hopefully well under, but that would depend a bit where you are and when you're travelling. Then it's find a hotel, there are loads in all budgets from a travellodge in London for 150 dollars that would sleep all 3 of you, to top of the range hotels that would probably blow your budget in a day. I'd say 300 dollars a day would get you and partner and your daughter seperate average rooms in London or Paris. Travel between London and Paris and Geneva (say) would cost another 200 ish dollars each. So that's 8100 for your basic travel and living, at 10 days you then have somewhere between 190 and 750 dollars a day to spend on food and entertainment - that's lots! There's lots of sites on the web for looking at hotels, and look at the archive for the group for specific recommendations or places to avoid in London and Paris - but remember these are 2 of the most touristed places in the world, you'd have to be extremely naiive not to be able to get around yourself! Jim. We are definitely the adventurous type of family and have found our best vacations in the states off of the beaten path. That is one of the reasons why I am here on this group. The thought of being with a hundred other people with different ideas on what to see is scary to me. Just the few responses here have given me new insight on the trip. Since it is Europe ( NEW )it is a little intimidating at first. I figure that we can take the Chunnel to Paris and would you guys suggest trains for the rest of the trip? Absolutely, but don't call it the Chunnel. If you're not concerned with cost, and feel better having confirmed reservations, you can book train tickets on line from the U.S. They'll cost more, though, than what you can do in Europe. Also, when booking train tickets, there are actually two components -- the ticket gets you on board the train, but you will need a separate, additional-cost seat reservation if you want to guarantee a seat. If you're travelling in summer, I'd recommend doing this -- if it's off-season, you can almost always buy a ticket at the station when you want to travel and dispense with the seat reservation, as there are plenty of open seats. If you don't get a seat reservation, when you board, just look for a seat that doesn't have a name above the seat number. Finally, bear in mind that Europeans travel a lot lighter than Americans, so trains aren't designed for dragging around lots of big suitcases. You'll have to manage them up and down the train steps yourself. Also, many European train stations require that you ascend or descend stairs to reach the platforms. All stations have maps of each train. When you get to the platform, find the maps, identify your train number, then look at the car layout -- it will tell you where on the platform you'll be able to board your car. If your bag is small enough, it may fit on the rack above the seat (they accomodate bigger bags than airline carryons). Otherwise, you'll have to leave your bag at the end of the car in the common baggage area. If you do so, keep an eye on your bags -- luggage theft, though not common, is not unheard of. I carry a small, light, flexible bike chain that lets me chain my bags together. |
#13
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European trip ?'s
We have traveled from the US to Europe five times (two adults and two
teenagers). In March we are traveling to China, and in July we are going back to Paris and the Riviera. We have always planned the trips ourselves and never used a tour group. Consider: - You can easily purchase your own plane tickets online, and even pick your seats. There are plenty of travel sites available - I typically use Expedia. Try different itineraries and dates to find the best prices. Keep in mind that air travel to Europe during the summer can cost twice as much as travel during other times of the year. - You can also easily investigate hotels (and make reservations) through sites like Expedia. If staying in Paris for a week, however, you should look into renting an apartment. This can be much cheaper and a more interesting experience than staying in a hotel. I can personally recommend Madelyn and Philippe at http://www.parisperfect.com. Nice people with nice apartments! - Taking trains around Europe is very easy too. I've never bought tickets in advance, but I research the schedules at http://www.raileurope.com. Tips: - I don't know where you live, but if at all possible get a direct flight to London (or whatever your first destination is). Pay a few extra dollars and avoid beginning your trip by missing a connection in the US due to weather, etc. - Many flights to Europe from the US are overnight flights. Sleeping difficulties (especially in coach) combined with jet lag can make the first day or two really rough. If arriving in the morning, book a hotel room for the night before so that you can check in immediately upon arrival and try to catch a quick nap. - Also, due to jet lag, I would not suggest spending only a couple of days in your first city. You may be zonked for your first couple of days, and you probably don't want them to be the only ones you spend in London. If you're going to spend a week in Paris, begin your trip there and get acclimated. - As I think someone else suggested, get the Dorling Kindersly Eyewitness travel books for the places you want to visit. They are awesome and full of lots of helpful material. - Lastly - my two cents - as opposed to three days in London and a week in Paris, I'd suggest five in each. They're both great cities, and five days is plenty to get a flavor for each. This would probably eliminate the apartment option as a week's stay is usually required. Paris is awesome, but don't underestimate London... We love it there! Have fun! Michael W. Chicago, IL, USA |
#14
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European trip ?'s
"jst" wrote in message news:2Oiuf.1482$Dh.1371@dukeread04... Our family of three( 2 adults & 17 y/o )are considering a trip to Europe this summer. We would want to spend at least 2-3 days in London then 5-7 days going from France ( Paris a must ) to Switzerland ( the alps ). We have traveled the states extensively and have never been overseas.Is this the type of trip that we should do exclusively with a travel agency and do the group tour bit. We have never been the types to do a group tour but would do one if we could find the right locations included. We are just starting to look into this and any recommendations would be appreciated. We are budgeting 10 - 15 thousand , is this reasonable ??? I agree with most things that have been written about independent travel, London, Paris and travel between the cities, so I won't add to that. When going to Switzerland I would take the train from Geneva to Interlaken. Take a day trip to Jungfraujoch. Train from Interlaken to Grindelwald and then another train up the mountain. If you take the very first train of the day you get a 50% reduction but you have leave Jungfraujoch before noon. On the way down (as well as up) you have to change trains at Kleine Scheidegg. I would take the opportunity to go for a walk along the path to Mannlichen. This is almost level. You can then either return to KS for the train or continue the walk to M and take a cable car down to Grindelwald. All in all a great day out. There are other day trips you can do from Interlaken as well. Gerrit - Oz |
#15
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European trip ?'s
On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 17:37:12 -0600, jst wrote:
Our family of three( 2 adults & 17 y/o )are considering a trip to Europe this summer. We would want to spend at least 2-3 days in London then 5-7 days going from France ( Paris a must ) to Switzerland ( the alps ). We have traveled the states extensively and have never been overseas.Is this the type of trip that we should do exclusively with a travel agency and do the group tour bit. We have never been the types to do a group tour but would do one if we could find the right locations included. We are just starting to look into this and any recommendations would be appreciated. We are budgeting 10 - 15 thousand , is this reasonable ??? I just wanted to throw my 2 cents in on your travel question. There has already been a lot of very good recommendations made by others. I'm in the midst of planning an extensive trip to Europe in the Spring, so have done quite a bit of research. This will be my 5th trip to Europe, but most of my trips were almost 30 years ago before I was married. This time, I'm taking my wife to show her all of the places that I have longed to show her. The first time I went to Europe, I took a tour. I didn't have my Europe travel confidence up yet. I enjoyed my tour very much, but would never do it again. You are simply too insulated from the cultures you're trying to get in contact with. If that's what you want (to be surrounded by Americans, staying in American-type hotels, eating American-type restaurants) then tours are great. I can tell you that it is quite easy to travel around Europe. My subsequent trips to the Continent have been using Eurail and making use of their extraordinary train system (sometimes boats and buses are covered by Eurail, too). My upcoming trip will be the same. When I was in England in 1997, we rented a car and drove for the 10 days of our trip. That worked great, too. This time, we're flying into Dublin, Ireland, renting a car for a week for traveling around Ireland, then flying to London, then catching the Eurostar ("Chunnel", but I guess Europeans don't like that term) to Belgium and the Netherlands, then down to Paris, next to the Normandy coast, then southern France (Nice area), then into Italy, Austria, Switzerland, Germany, Denmark, Sweden, and Oslo (from which we hope to fly home). This is a 10-week trip. Your planned trip is not really long enough to get very deep into any of the cultures you're going to see, but if that's all the time you have, then you definitely can make the most of your time, by planning in advance to take in the highpoints of each area. This time out for us, I'm using Rick Steves' books extensively, since he tends to travel like I do--sees a lot in a fairly short time. He also has great recommendations for restaurants and more reasonably priced hotels, bed & breakfasts, pensions, etc. His travel series can also be caught on PBS a good deal of the time. His "Best of Europe" book is really what you need for your limited time. If you belong to AAA, they sell it for a discount. If you do make it to Switzerland (and I hope you do), I definitely can recommend that you spend your time in the Jungfrau region. If the weather cooperates, it's an extraordinary experience. Stay in a city like Wengen or Murren (more remote), but with mountain scenery that will leave you awestruck and truly give you a feel for the Alps and the Swiss people. If you don't fly to Switzerland, count on an all day (or an overnight) train to get into the heart of Switzerland. You might consider an open-jaw trip, flying to London and returning home from Zurich or Bern, Switzerland. It will permit you not to have to waste your time doubling back to your starting city. When researching hotels, you might check out tripadvisor.com. It's terrific in giving you an idea of prices and recommendations on the best accommodations in most areas. Since you're traveling in "high" season, you will have more of a concern about finding places to stay, but generally, you can still go without reservations and use the train stations or tourist offices to help you find a place. I would have a listing of recommended hotels before going, however, so as not to get "stuck" with some dump. I usually make reservations for our arrival point and our departure point, then play it by ear from there. I would describe my wife and I as "budget" travelers. We don't stay in expensive or even moderately expensive hotels, so we tend to look for the "quaint" small hotels, guesthouses, bed & breakfasts, etc. I do have one "cheap" recommendation that a travel agent pass along to me for Paris if you don't mind staying in a something less that quaint place--more like a Motel 6 "cookie cutter" place--but with a lot of positive comments, including clean and well kept. It's called the Etap Hotel chain, specifically, we're considering Etap Hotel Paris La Villette. A room for 2 is about $65/night, as compared to the vast majority of "budget" accommodations for at least twice that amount and usually more. Only problem is that they only permit reservations 100 days in advance of your arrival, so I'm still waiting to make my reservation (1/18/06). If I can help you in any way, please let me know. I have a lot of information on a lot of areas within Europe if you need help. The rec.travel.europe newsgroup is a very valuable aid in getting lots of great input. Best of luck to you in planning your adventure. Take care and happy new year. Stan in CA |
#16
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European trip ?'s
In article _nkuf.1497$Dh.335@dukeread04, jst wrote:
$350 US per person How long of a trip is this ? I guess I will have to ready myself for a different culture and standards. He is referring to the Eurostar train, which can be had for much cheaper. The new key to lower rates is booking more than 21 days in advance. Just order your tickets online, and you can collect them at the "Will-Call" window. Booking a 'return' fare and throwing it away, is cheaper than a one-way... it does not appear to violate the TOC. http://www.eurostar.com I recommend this hotel in London for its location: http://www.premiertravelinn.com/pti/...?hotelId=23881 Next to the London Eye, across the bridge to Big Ben and about 15 min walk to the "West End" for an evening out. It is about 400 yards to Waterloo station a large 'Tube' station and the station that your train trip to Paris will start from. This is a picture I took from room #406 at London's Travel Inn- County Hall. http://tinyurl.com/8lqup http://homepage.mac.com/gofig/usenet/PhotoAlbum39.html jay Mon Jan 02, 2006 |
#17
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European trip ?'s
On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 19:25:56 -0600, jst wrote:
$350 US per person How long of a trip is this ? I guess I will have to ready myself for a different culture and standards. London-Paris is a bit under three hours on the train. As the previous poster says, $350 is very much the first class fa when I went London-Paris in the spring last year it cost me £60 (around US$ 100) return (round trip). The plane isn't necessarily more expensive, but the train is usually as fast when you've taken into account getting to airports at each end. For longer trips you may well find that low-cost airlines are cheaper than trains. Also be aware that buying European train tickets in the US is usually more expensive than buying them in Europe. Given only three days in London, I would stay somewhere central. So long as you can find somewhere suitable to stay, there doesn't seem any point in taking an organised tour for the London section at least. Martin |
#18
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European trip ?'s
jst wrote:
Our family of three( 2 adults & 17 y/o )are considering a trip to Europe this summer. We would want to spend at least 2-3 days in London then 5-7 days going from France ( Paris a must ) to Switzerland ( the alps ). We have traveled the states Which states? Or just the States? SCNR. extensively and have never been overseas.Is this the type of trip that we should do exclusively with a travel agency and do the group tour bit. I stayed in Europe for most of the last 45 years including trevelling there quite a bit and I never did a group tour or even made use of a travel agencs (except maybe for booking some business trips in the pre-internet era). It's certainly not a must or even schould. Jens |
#19
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European trip ?'s
"jst" wrote in message news:_nkuf.1497$Dh.335@dukeread04... PTRAVEL wrote: $350 US per person How long of a trip is this ? I guess I will have to ready myself for a different culture and standards. The Channel train takes a little over 3 hours from London to Paris. It's a high-speed train and, by far, the fastest and most convenient way to get between these cities. I've done it by plane, and also by train and ferry (the English Channel in a ferry can be quite an experience) -- I far prefer the Channel train. Speaking of different cultures, you'll find no problem in London at all. They're very used to American tourists, and you'll almost certainly find more similarities than differences. Though French culture is different, the French have gotten a very bad rap in the American media. Study your guidebook before you go, so you'll know how to avoid the kind of faux pas that put Americans in a bad light. As a minor example, if, on walking into a shop you greet the shopkeeper with, "Bonjour," you'll be warmly greeted and given assistance. If you neglect this staple of French etiquette, you'll be written off as a boorish American tourist and given the cold shoulder that you deserve. I think it is important to learn some simple phrases whenever you travel to a different country. For example, learn, "please, thank you, excuse me, hello and good bye." Your guidebook will have a simple phrase list at the back. As it happens, I speak some French, though I'm far from fluent. I can, however, get by reasonably well in French-speaking countries. My wife, however, speaks no French beyond the simple phrases, but is always treated courteously and well and enjoys our visits to France immensely. |
#20
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European trip ?'s
"Martin Rich" wrote in message ... On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 19:25:56 -0600, jst wrote: $350 US per person How long of a trip is this ? I guess I will have to ready myself for a different culture and standards. London-Paris is a bit under three hours on the train. As the previous poster says, $350 is very much the first class fa when I went London-Paris in the spring last year it cost me £60 (around US$ 100) return (round trip). Incidently, I'd add that First Class really isn't necessary, though in high season it may ensure an added degree of comfort given the crowds that make the trip. The plane isn't necessarily more expensive, but the train is usually as fast when you've taken into account getting to airports at each end. For longer trips you may well find that low-cost airlines are cheaper than trains. Also be aware that buying European train tickets in the US is usually more expensive than buying them in Europe. Given only three days in London, I would stay somewhere central. So long as you can find somewhere suitable to stay, there doesn't seem any point in taking an organised tour for the London section at least. Martin |
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