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Knee Defenders



 
 
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  #21  
Old March 9th, 2004, 03:26 PM
Mike Cordelli
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Default Knee Defenders

Legally, like this is a matter of law? I really don't think that there are
any laws on the book about reclining seats in flight.



"Miss L. Toe" wrote in message
...
Myself, I think that the seats need to be designed such that if the
person reclines I can still use my laptop. I have every right to use
my laptop in flight,


Who gave you that right ?
Is it specified in the terms and conditions of travel ?

and some guy who reclines his seat all the way
shouldn't be able to prevent me from using it.


I would have thought that legally the guy in front has more right to

recline
his seat than you have for him not to.





  #22  
Old March 9th, 2004, 04:02 PM
Miguel Cruz
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Default Knee Defenders

Mike Cordelli wrote:
"Miss L. Toe" wrote:
I would have thought that legally the guy in front has more right to
recline his seat than you have for him not to.


Legally, like this is a matter of law? I really don't think that there
are any laws on the book about reclining seats in flight.


This is all covered by the 1982 United Nations Convention on the Law of the
Seat.

miguel
--
Hundreds of travel photos from around the world: http://travel.u.nu/
  #23  
Old March 9th, 2004, 05:18 PM
me
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Default Knee Defenders

"Miss L. Toe" wrote in message ...
[snip]
I would have thought that legally the guy in front has more right to recline
his seat than you have for him not to.


This is coming up alot lately. I'm not honestly sure where this
perception comes from that there are any "rights" either way.
However, considering that not all seats recline, and the only time
they do recline is when the volume in use can be used in a
"dual use" mode, it would seem that reclining isn't a "right"
but a "luxury". Using the work surface is also a luxury. As such,
no one has "rights" to claim. If fact, it would seem that the
airline could consider this a perk which they could assign
based upon their business needs. With respect to the knee defender,
"first come first serve" would seem to apply to some extent.
The alternative would seem to be some sort of communal "each according
to their needs" kind of comparison. Or, the capitalist model of
"to the highest bidder". But rights just doesn't seem an applicable
concept.
  #24  
Old March 9th, 2004, 05:41 PM
Miss L. Toe
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Posts: n/a
Default Knee Defenders


"me" wrote in message
m...
"Miss L. Toe" wrote in message

...
[snip]
I would have thought that legally the guy in front has more right to

recline
his seat than you have for him not to.


This is coming up alot lately. I'm not honestly sure where this
perception comes from that there are any "rights" either way.
However, considering that not all seats recline, and the only time
they do recline is when the volume in use can be used in a
"dual use" mode, it would seem that reclining isn't a "right"
but a "luxury". Using the work surface is also a luxury. As such,
no one has "rights" to claim. If fact, it would seem that the
airline could consider this a perk which they could assign
based upon their business needs. With respect to the knee defender,
"first come first serve" would seem to apply to some extent.
The alternative would seem to be some sort of communal "each according
to their needs" kind of comparison. Or, the capitalist model of
"to the highest bidder". But rights just doesn't seem an applicable
concept.


But shirley, if you book a seat which reclines then that is part of what you
have purchased, everyone knows most airline seats recline. If you want more
knee room book a business class seat, or a bulkhead seat, or fly a different
airline.

If the airline provided knee defenders then one would have the 'right' to
use them, why can't I bring a large cushion put it in the seat next to me
and call it an elbow room defender ??

Talking of the seat next to me - who has the 'right' to the shared armrest
:-) (It certainly wasn't the B*****d who sat next to me and kept his arm
on it constantly pressing 'my' video control buttons recently).



  #25  
Old March 9th, 2004, 05:52 PM
S Viemeister
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Posts: n/a
Default Knee Defenders

"Miss L. Toe" wrote:

Talking of the seat next to me - who has the 'right' to the shared armrest
:-) (It certainly wasn't the B*****d who sat next to me and kept his arm
on it constantly pressing 'my' video control buttons recently).

On a longish (app 7 hr) flight some time back, I sat next to a man who
leaned so far into my space (the better to see the video), that I barely
had room to breathe. I offered to switch seats with him so that he could
see better. We switched, and for the rest of the trip, he mistook my leg
for the shared armrest. The flight was completely full, so I couldn't go
sit someplace else.
I would have been happy to give him the uninterupted use of the armrest!

  #26  
Old March 9th, 2004, 06:08 PM
Miguel Cruz
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Posts: n/a
Default Knee Defenders

Miss L. Toe wrote:
"me" wrote:
This is coming up alot lately. I'm not honestly sure where this
perception comes from that there are any "rights" either way.
However, considering that not all seats recline, and the only time
they do recline is when the volume in use can be used in a
"dual use" mode, it would seem that reclining isn't a "right"
but a "luxury". Using the work surface is also a luxury. As such,
no one has "rights" to claim. If fact, it would seem that the
airline could consider this a perk which they could assign
based upon their business needs. With respect to the knee defender,
"first come first serve" would seem to apply to some extent.
The alternative would seem to be some sort of communal "each according
to their needs" kind of comparison. Or, the capitalist model of
"to the highest bidder". But rights just doesn't seem an applicable
concept.


But shirley, if you book a seat which reclines then that is part of what
you have purchased, everyone knows most airline seats recline.


Many people also know that the seats push forward from behind. Have I
therefore booked a seat with an adjustable wall in front of it?

I booked a seat with a light switch above it; can I flash the light on and
off every few seconds for 12 hours? Can I slam my tray table up and down?

The cabin features are available for use so long as they don't make others
miserable. There's no law that I says I am allowed to do everything I am
capable of doing, even if this capability came as part of the price of
passage.

miguel
--
Hundreds of travel photos from around the world: http://travel.u.nu/
  #27  
Old March 10th, 2004, 03:30 AM
PTRAVEL
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Posts: n/a
Default Knee Defenders


"Miguel Cruz" wrote in message
...


I booked a seat with a light switch above it; can I flash the light on and
off every few seconds for 12 hours? Can I slam my tray table up and down?


Hey, was that you in back of me yesterday?



The cabin features are available for use so long as they don't make others
miserable. There's no law that I says I am allowed to do everything I am
capable of doing, even if this capability came as part of the price of
passage.

miguel
--
Hundreds of travel photos from around the world: http://travel.u.nu/



  #28  
Old March 10th, 2004, 02:32 PM
Steve
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Posts: n/a
Default Knee Defenders

"Miss L. Toe" wrote:
But shirley, if you book a seat which reclines then that is part of what you
have purchased, everyone knows most airline seats recline. If you want more
knee room book a business class seat, or a bulkhead seat, or fly a different
airline.


Or, if there are two exit rows back-to-back, get a seat in the rear
exit row. Great leg room, and the seat in front won't recline at all.
Best seats on the plane, better than most first-class seats.

  #29  
Old March 10th, 2004, 05:19 PM
Banty
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Posts: n/a
Default Knee Defenders

In article , Miss L. Toe says...


"me" wrote in message
om...
"Miss L. Toe" wrote in message

...
[snip]
I would have thought that legally the guy in front has more right to

recline
his seat than you have for him not to.


This is coming up alot lately. I'm not honestly sure where this
perception comes from that there are any "rights" either way.
However, considering that not all seats recline, and the only time
they do recline is when the volume in use can be used in a
"dual use" mode, it would seem that reclining isn't a "right"
but a "luxury". Using the work surface is also a luxury. As such,
no one has "rights" to claim. If fact, it would seem that the
airline could consider this a perk which they could assign
based upon their business needs. With respect to the knee defender,
"first come first serve" would seem to apply to some extent.
The alternative would seem to be some sort of communal "each according
to their needs" kind of comparison. Or, the capitalist model of
"to the highest bidder". But rights just doesn't seem an applicable
concept.


But shirley, if you book a seat which reclines then that is part of what you
have purchased, everyone knows most airline seats recline. If you want more
knee room book a business class seat, or a bulkhead seat, or fly a different
airline.

If the airline provided knee defenders then one would have the 'right' to
use them, why can't I bring a large cushion put it in the seat next to me
and call it an elbow room defender ??

Talking of the seat next to me - who has the 'right' to the shared armrest
:-) (It certainly wasn't the B*****d who sat next to me and kept his arm
on it constantly pressing 'my' video control buttons recently).


I have long lets (36' inseam), but since I actually sit straight, I haven't had
a problem with the seat reclining in front of me. *Tight* if they recline back,
but not a knee-buster. The knee defense I need more often is what to do about
these guys (only guys) who sit half on their backs with their legs splayed such
that their knees impinge on the spaces next to them. Come to think of it, not
slouching is also a good solution for those who find their knees hitting the
seat in front of them, be it reclined or not.

Banty (c'mon guys - just sit straight!)

 




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