When to recline?

"jenn" wrote in message ...
Bob Myers wrote:

"jenn" wrote in message

somebody needs more fiber -- or needs to get a grip about his
need to controll the world

... Would there be any other examples of boorish
behavior you'd care to demonstrate?

oh whine whine -- you can boss someone else around but can't
bear to be called on it -- get some fiber and get alife

That's twice you have brought up your apparent preoccupation
with bowel movements. You may think you can obfuscate the observation
that you are being inconsiderate by bringing up control issues and
constipation, but it's not working.

You are probably one of those people who park in the fire lane at the
grocery store - rationalizing that 'I'm only going to be in there for a
minute since I only have to get a couple of things. You can't be
bothered to walk an extra 50 feet from the normal parking places.

Adam Weiss wrote:

jenn wrote:

Bob Myers wrote:

"jenn" wrote in message
...

somebody needs more fiber -- or needs to get a grip about his need to
controll the world




So let's see - at this point, you've demonstrated your
"God-given right" to be discourteous in both air travel
and posting? Would there be any other examples of boorish
behavior you'd care to demonstrate?

Bob M.




oh whine whine -- you can boss someone else around but can't bear to
be called on it -- get some fiber and get alife


As an intern architect, I think the real problem is the airlines - not
passengers who fly on them.

In my profession, alot of time and effort is spent on meeting the
requirements of the Americans with Disabilities Act. Corridor widths,
restrooms, door hardware - they're all strictly governed. I'm sure
cruise ships face similar requirements. But even on the largest
airliners - 747s and the new Airbus Superjumbos - the airlines are given
a free pass on ADA.

And ADA matters. I was flying out of JAC (Jackson Hole WY) and I saw as
a lady in a wheelchair was told that her elderly parents would have to
carry her up the stairs to the plane or she wouldn't be able to fly. In
the face of the humiliation and inconvenience, the family chose to drive
to Salt Lake City instead - forefeiting their ticket with no refund.


Ergonomics are another issue. They just don't enter the vocabulary of
those who layout arliner insteriors until and unless they are designing
business and first class seats - where they are all important. In my
world, one of buildings on the ground, we value ergonomics to a degree
in even the least expensive speculative buildings; we don't reserve it
only for our $300/sf + buildings.


Before airliner apologists attack me, I know major reasons for this are
economics. But more could be done, especially in coach. And on the
biggest jets (the new superjumbos) I think we should be expecting more
in the way of accessibility for the disabled.


couldn't agree more -- the airlines just dump the problem on to the
passengers -- having spent two hours nestled into the fat of an obese
man who had lifted the armrest and oozed into half of my seat -- I feel
grossly abused by airlines that don't accomodate passengers with such
problems but simply rob the rest of us of the space we paid for -- tall
and fat people are a fact of life -- the airlines need to have some
means of accomodating natural human variation

Yep. Next time, do what I do -- _ask_ if the seat reclines when you book it
(or use www.seatguru.com to find out). Tray tables are provided so there is
a surface for meals (if and when you get them), which is why FAs will ask
you to bring your seat up at meal times. They're not flying offices though,
if you have the right laptop you can work on them.

Since I most often use the flying time to work with my laptop, the seat
recline for me is usually not an issue. Although if the person sitting in
front of me goes commando on their recline, moving my seat back a few
inches in usually enough to continue to allow me to use my laptop. Which
was not the circumstance on my last Southwest flight. I intentionally carry
one of the smaller laptops on such trips, so that it can be easily used on
the standard tray table. And my 5'10", 175 lbs and 34" waist can generally
be accommodated even with the smallest of seat pitch.

I agree, seatguru dot com is an excellent site.

jenn muttered....




couldn't agree more -- the airlines just dump the problem on to the
passengers --

Who have with simply frightening consistency demonstrated with their feet
and pocketbooks that they want cheap airfares, which can only be provided
in a sardine can environment which configures a/c to provide maximum
seating to meet predicted utilization.


having spent two hours nestled into the fat of an obese
man who had lifted the armrest and oozed into half of my seat --

.....You certainly complain loudly here, and then sit there and do nothing
when you shopuld have been bellowing in anguish. You are a terrible
whinger/whiner, lady, the worst sort, the kingd who only bitches
impersonally, "at arm's length" as it were.

I
feel grossly abused by airlines that don't accomodate passengers with
such problems but simply rob the rest of us of the space we paid for
-- tall and fat people are a fact of life -- the airlines need to have
some means of accomodating natural human variation.

WN makes the fat folk pay for two seats. Tall is another matter altogether
(and not necessarily related to overall height, but to the length of the
thigh bones which - with some racial trends - varies widely among
individuals - the person whose knees you smunch when reclining may not be a
6'8" basketball player. but a 5'8" female accountant).

I'm glad the airlines have been exempted from ADA. Unlike the silly
architect posting earlier, I've had to sign checks to pay for
providing "accessibility" in buildings and understand what air fares might
rise to if manufacturers had to build and configure a/c which lived up to
the often inane if well intentioned ADA standards for access.

ADA accessibility for a/c? Sure, and realize that immediately, over 50% of
US cities, almost all of the smaller variety (and Jackson Hole) would lose
air service completely. Right now, the majors subsidize small market
service to draw passengers into their systems. Add a required subsidy in
the form of new a/c designed for wheelchair access (aisle width, etc.) and
the required jetways at all gates (non-existent in smaller and some pretty
big airports.....Shazaam, and the flights you here are passing at a
distance (if at all).

I took a look at a B737-700 interior and attempted to rework it for ADA
rules (and the worst part was the rest rooms, requiring a HC facility
occupying the entire tail section, then there's the doors, and the almost
impossible quandary presented by the escape hatches, not just size but
threshold heaight, requing removal of 2 full rows of seats for each.
Seats, one class, only 4 across to provide a legal aisle, at least 3 seats
fully wheelchair accessible, were down to about 60, from 120+, so figure a
minimum add on for every fare of something in the range of 100%.

TMO

Scott in Aztlán wrote:

On 31 Mar 2004 08:34:49 -0800, (Holden McGroyne)
wrote:


What is the answer to this?


The answer is for consumers to stop putting up with airlines that pack them in
like cattle. As long as you keep giving these airlines your money, they have no
incentive to increase your comfort level.

IIRC, American used to advertise that they have more legroom in coach; if that's
still true, try booking your next flight on American.

They cut back on it in some destinations, mainly ones with lower revenue
per seat mile. If enough people would pay the higher cost for doing
this, it would be done. However, the people that complain the most seem
to be the ones that shop on the basis of ticket price or whether an
airline has TV or not.