Immigration patrols on domestic Amtrak

"Bill in Schenectady" wrote in message
news:7mBmi.2713$4J4.1996@trndny05...

"sechumlib" wrote in message
...
On 2007-07-14 22:53:17 -0400, "Bill in Schenectady"
said:

Relatively few illegal immigrants come over from Canada. I rarely hear
of
anyone being caught due to checkpoints near the Canadian border (or even
at
the border itself). In fact, the guy with the TB case came across on
the
I-87 crossing from Canada into New York State. He was on a watch list,
and
border patrol just waved him through.

There was also the little matter of an intended Arab bomber trying to get
through a checkpoint in Washington state back in 1999 or 2000.
Fortunately, he was caught at the border and put out of circulation.


Yes I do remember that. Fortunately they do catch some. Also,
fortunately, many intended terrorists are stupid.

Fortunately he was already known to the RCMP and under some level of
surveillance, presumably his name and aliases were listed on any shared
lists...

On Jul 16, 12:51 pm, Hatunen wrote:
Generally, when one talks of national ID cards one means
something all residents are required to have. It would be well if
everyone agreed on just what is being referred to.

The problem is that while there is no "official" national ID card we
are required by law to have, to effectively function in society we
must have a official state issued ID card (driver's license or
substitute). (Unless one spends their entire life living under a
bridge eating scrap food).

It wasn't that long ago that a person only had to get a social
security card when they grew up and started working. But now the govt
requires you get one at birth.

I don't understand why elementary schools require a kid's SSN to
register. Is the 5 year old kid gonna get taxable income at recess?
Actually, I don't undestand why colleges require it either.

In article . com,
wrote:

How about a more informal government issued ID? For example, an
employee ID card or facility entrance ID card. I have an official
"govt issued" photo ID card from the municipal swimming pool. I often
wonder if that will count as acceptable. Of course these days, when
I'm taking train pictures locally, if the cops asked for ID that's
what they're gonna get because it was their town that issued it.

If it is government issued and has an expiration date it should be
acceptable. Employee ID cards are good if they are government agency
cards. Cards issued by private employers are not good. The government
issued ID does not have to be a drivers license but to be valid it has
to have an expiration date.

On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 17:44:42 +0100, "Keith Willshaw"
mangled uncounted
electrons thus:

"Martin D. Pay" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 22:39:37 -0700,
mangled uncounted electrons thus:

snip

Amtrak official policy (as stated on their website) is that
government-issued photo ID is required to purchase a ticket.

Does that mean a US-government issued ID?

No

A nice unambiguous answer!

If so, the tentative
plans my wife and I are making to use Amtrack for internal travel
(rather than fly internally within the USA) on our next visit
won't be possible...


British passports are OK, I've used Amtrak no problem.

Thanks for that...

Martin D. Pay
Able to get back to planning...

In article om,
wrote:

On Jul 15, 9:03 pm, Merritt Mullen wrote:

The US does not have federally-issued ID.

Yet.

But the U.S. Govt is demanding all states upgrade their drivers'
licenses to a higher security standard. For some states that would be
a considerable extra expense and nuisance and they're balking at the
requirements.

A number of states have already voted to ignore the federal "Real-ID" law.
It will probably be fought in the courts.

Merritt

In article .com,
wrote:

On Jul 15, 10:35 am, "Adam H. Kerman" wrote:
The document Amtrak asks a passengers to carry is a driver's license (or
equivalent state issued photo id). It's insufficient to establish
citizenship if a Customs officer demands proof. It's another one of
those purposeless annoyances in the guise of security.

How would one prove citizenship?

That's easy. Since American citizens are not required to have proof of
citizenship, but alien residents are required to have proof of alien
status, anyone without proof of citizenship or alien status must be
assumed to be an American citizen! grin

Merritt

sechumlib wrote:

On 2007-07-15 21:16:51 -0400, "Adam H. Kerman" said:

sechumlib wrote:
On 2007-07-15 17:35:40 -0400, "Adam H. Kerman" said:
wrote:
On 2007-07-15 15:49:11 -0400, "Stephen Sprunk" said:

What really jerks my chain is that folks on the US side demanded to see
my passport to allow me to _leave_ the US. They were far more
interested in me than the Canadians, who just waved me through without
even opening the booth's window.

What do you mean? We cross the border frequently. Going from the US to
Canada, we don't even go through a US checkpoint. How do you get sent
through one?

And Canada is not nearly that bored by us. We always get stopped and
asked where we're going, how long we're going to be in Canada and
whether we're bringing anything that might interest them.

Beer? Back bacon?

Do you have an answer to my questions or are you just bull****ting?

In the previous paragraph, you asked a question of someone else.

You didn't ask a question in the last paragraph. Perhaps you could read what
you wrote for comprehension.

I'm just not used to smart-ass comments from people who have no
possible interest in the subject and have nothing of any value whatever
to contribute.

Wow. What a bitch.

Which is a perfect description of you.

Way to make friends and influence people.

In article ,
sechumlib wrote:

On 2007-07-15 23:33:29 -0400, Merritt Mullen said:

In article ,
sechumlib wrote:

On 2007-07-15 20:37:46 -0400, Merritt Mullen said:

In article ,
"Keith Willshaw" wrote:

I've been stopped by such patrols on Interstates in California

I-5 and I-15 both have such facilities built right into the northbound
lanes of the interstates, about 50 mile north of the border in areas where
there are no practical detours off of the interstates.

What border? If they're on I-5 and I-15, they're not in Canada, so what
border are you talking about?

The word "California" should give you a clue.

Let's see: the California "customs officials" have facilities "about 50
mile north of the border" in Oregon? Or is it about 50 miles north of
the Mexican border in Californis?

Who said anything about "California Customs Officials". We are talking
about the U.S Border Patrol and Immigration Agents. Nothing to do with
the state of California.

The California Agricultural Inspection stations on the borders with other
U.S. states are a completely different issue and have nothing to do with
immigration.

Just which border are you talking about? Most of this discussion has
been about the one with Canada.

Yes, but I was responding to the posting by Keith Willshaw (still above),
that referred to immigration checks on the California interstates. Trust
me, no one in California is patrolling the Canadian border.

Merritt

In article ,
"tim....." wrote:

ISTM that a problem is, despite having selected you
randomly, IME these people still treat you like a criminal
when they question you.

If they were taught to use their manners when they
first talked with people and only go into 'agressive'
mode when you give the wrong answers, people might
be more sympathetic about the job that they have to do.


Why do you think that is not the case? Have you had a bad experience?

Merritt

wrote:
On Jul 15, 10:35 am, Adam H. Kerman wrote:

The document Amtrak asks a passengers to carry is a driver's license (or
equivalent state issued photo id). It's insufficient to establish
citizenship if a Customs officer demands proof. It's another one of
those purposeless annoyances in the guise of security.

How would one prove citizenship?

To cross the Canadian border, a birth certificate was sufficient or
verification of voter registration was sufficient. An American traveling
domestically isn't expecting to need to prove citizenship; it's un-American.

If we're crossing the border we're supposed to carry appropriate papers
now, but on this Amtrak train it did not cross any borders and as such,
the passengers would not be expected to carry any proof of citizenship.

Quite, since Americans aren't required to prove citizenship.

Of course, the original description said it was an oral inquiry only.
Perhaps this was bureacracy at work, that is, they could report that
they're "checking".

Curious how travel by train is such a heavy target. What did Amtrak ever
do to Customs?