Encounters with the TSA

"Sleepy Racoon" wrote in message
...
PTRAVEL wrote:
You can also use plastic trash bags for raincoats.

And you remove and dispose ot it as soon as you are inside your court
building. If anyone asks, just tell them the airline lost your umbrella.
Or if
you are staying at a good business hotel, ask the concierge to lend you an
umbrella.

Sorry, but my clients would not accept a lawyer who dresses like a homeless
person. As for borrowing umbrellas, that's fine _if_ you go to the hotel
first, _if_ you're going to return after and _if_ you don't mind dragging a
full-size umbrella around at court all day. Many ifs.



You're confused about cellphone technology. It has nothing to do with
the
ntetwork to which you subscribe. A tri-mode phone will roam in both
digital
and analogue systems

That is bi-mode phone. (digital/analogue with only one digital
technology).
Tri-mode would be a phone capable of GSM, TDMA and analogue. Verizon has
CDMA
and analogue, that is bi-mode.

No, tri-mode are dual-band CDMA and analogue. Motorola and Samsung make
them for Verizon, among others.

Now, they also have 2 frequencies for digital
(850 and 1900).

If you are without battery charger, you simply disable the analogue mode.

And then I can't make or receive phone calls, which is the whole point of
the cellular phone. I'm sure it's difficult for you to conceive of this,
but some people actually need to be reachable, and need to be able to reach
others, as part of their jobs.

If
you are travelling from an airport to an hotel to a court, you're not
going to
be spending that much time in the boon docks.

I am if I'm taking depositions at a party's offices or if, as is quite
common, I have a two-three hour drive from the airport to wherever it is I
am going, because the carriers have dropped full-size jet service to
secondary airports and I don't fly commuters.

It fascinates me that you, who haven't a clue what it is like to do my job,
have no qualms about telling me how to do it. What firm do you practice
with?

At your hotel, you have your
room phone which you can use to make calls, and when you receive a call on
your mobile, you tell them them you'll call them back from another phone.

I'm going to guess that you're a student somewhere, who hasn't had a real
job yet. My clients have my cellphone number because, as part of the
service I provide, they can call me 24/7 if they need me. That's one of the
reasons (and only one) that my clients are happy to pay my extremely high
hourly billing rate. I don't tell my clients, who provide my livelihood,
"call me back at this number," nor do I tell them, "I'll call you back." I
take the call. Period.

Incidently, if and when you do get a job that requires you to travel for
business, you'll learn that long-distance calls are heavily surcharged in
business hotels. The cost of a single 1/2-hour conference call could be
more than the cost of a good cellphone.

This
way, your battery life is greatly extended on your mobile.

If I valued battery life over my career, I'm sure your system would work.


People are understanding creatures.

Sorry, but you haven't a clue.

Having to overburnden yourself 99% of the
time so that on the 1% of times when luggage is lost, you can continue
totally
transparently isn't very smart in my opinion.

I don't "overburden" myself. I have two carryons. One goes in the
overhead. The other goes in the underseat space of the seat in front of me.
There's not an airline in the U.S. that has any problem with that. The fact
that you do bothers me not at all.

You explain to people that
luggage was lost and they'll understand you have to phone them back from a
landline.

You haven't a clue. Once, when I was flying to Orlando from SNA to do a
trial, I checked a bag because I had hurt my arm and it was a pain to lug
the thing around. Inside it was my suit. And guess what? The airline
(TWA) "misplaced" it. The next morning, instead of preparing for the final
pretrial status conference, I was running around looking for a Mens
Wearhouse, where I spent $1,000 out-of-pocket on a suit, shoes, belt,
underwear, etc. so that when I showed up at court a 1pm, I wouldn't be
thrown in jail by the judge who will NOT understand why at attorney admitted
to practice before the federal court has shown up in Dockers and a
tee-shirt. I will _never_ check bags when I travel for business.


Another incredibly naive statement. People survived before the advent
of
computers, airplanes, automobiles, and calculators as well.

Well, if you want to use that logic, then I will ask you:

If you rely on SMS (sorry this may be new to you since you are on a US
network
not using the world GSM standard), then your SMS service doesn't work in
analogue areas.

I don't use SMS. However, Verizon has an adequate substitute -- email can
be sent direct to my phone. It doesn't work analogue, either. I also don't
rely on SMS. I do rely on voice communication.

What do you do if you can't receive an urgent SMS because
you're in an analogue area ?????? What will you do ?

I don't get what you probably consider an "urgent" SMS. Or, more
accurately, if there is something truly urgent, my secretary will send email
to my phone and to my in-firm and private email, will call my cellphone, and
fax my hotel. He'll also call my wife and my travel agent. Fortunately,
this happens but rarely.

However, if my client wants to call me, that _is_ urgent, as far as I'm
concerned. Which is why they are given my cellphone number. When I travel
internationally, I have a GSM phone that I take with me with an
international number (it happens to be based in the UK). They get that
number, too. I also _always_ travel with my computer, and subscribe to an
ISP with international local dial-up specifically so that I can check email.


If you go to a place without digital coverage, you tell your secretary not
to
send you SMS messages and instead leave a message in your voicemail. You
can
then manage by regularly checking your voicemail.

Which I would do from my cellphone. Which would need to be charged.


How about the suit that I need to wear to court? Should I show up in a
polo
shirt and dockers?

That is why garment bags are generally accepted as hand luggage.

So are carryon bags with cellphone chargers.


What do I tell my wife when the judge locks me up for
contempt?

That you'll sue the airline for losing your luggage causing you to lose
your
job as a lawyer. If you explain to the judge the situation, he would be
absolutely silly to lock you up for contempt.

You don't know the first thing about the practice of law, that's evident.
Read what I wrote above. And, no, I didn't sue the airline for losing my
luggage. I don't have the time or the money to bring a negligence action
for a couple of thousand dollars.



Only someone who doesn't travel for business could be this naive. Get a
job, try to earn a living, then go on the road and tell us how you do
it.

Funny, I don't have such problems.

Obviously, because you don't have my job.

I use my judgement to determine what I
absolutely need and what I don't need.

So do I. I also don't presume to tell anyone else what they need.

And I take a few seconds to think about
"what if" scenarios to see what I would be able to do without, what I
would be
able to replace etc. I don't have general rules, I deal with each trip
separately.

And if you feel so much that you cannot live without your laptop, have you
considered the possibility of how you would handle a case of your laptop
being
broken (sopftware or hardware) or stolen ?

Yes, it's happened. My IS department will get another one to me, even if it
means messengering it to the airport and placing it on a plane (I've had to
do that). Do you have any idea how much it costs to do something like that?


Nope. Not only do you not travel for business but, apparently, you
don't
travel at all. Luggage handlers will no re-route luggage because you
wrote
"London" on the side.

You didn't read what I said. A handler loading a flight to paris seing a
luggage with a big "LONDON" sticker on it is more likely to seek out the
tag
to ensure it does state CDG on it. If he sees LHR, then the handler will
take
the luggage out and send it back to be sorted.

Sorry, but I think you're wrong. I don't think handlers look at anything
other than check-in-applied luggage sticker. They don't read hand-written
tags. They don't notice hand-written tags.


The last step in loading luggage is done by humans who assume the luggage
has
been sorted properly. Putting the "LONDON" sticker doesn't garantee they
will
spot a sorting error, but it increases their chances.

And that's contrary to everything that I know about flying. Have you ever
_watched_ a luggage handler? They're not looking at anything. They simply
throw the bags from the cart onto the belt.



And in the USA, if you do not take the last flight of the day and your
luggage
does miss its connection, it will travel on the next flight and you will
get
it.

Again, you haven't a clue what you're talking about. If your luggage misses
it's connection, it is sent to a luggage handling facility where it is
entered into the "lost luggage" system. Once someone actually determines
where it is supposed to go, it is slotted on to a flight, and then routed to
the destination lost-luggage office. They, in turn, will eventually
organize a delivery service to bring it to your hotel. If you're lucky, it
happens in 24 hours. If you're not, it can take weeks. This has happened
to me many times on non-business trips, or on returns from business trips
when I decide to check luggage.


Whether that luggage has your phone charger in it or not, you will still
have to deal with the airline, sign forms etc to have that luggage
delivered
as soon as it arrives.

Do you think a luggage delivery person will be allowed to bring it to me in
court?



Handlers don't read anything but the baggage tag applied by the check-in
agent.

Wrong. Handlers at the last bit don't even read the tags.

Exactly right.

They just transfer
sorted lugagge from one bin to a container (or trolley in case of
non-containerised aircraft).

Exactly right.

You need to bring to their attention the
potential for a mistake for them to check the tag.

And I don't care if you stick a tag on your bag that says, "Read this and
I'll pay you $100." They won't, because they'll never notice it.




There are many things YOU can do without. You, however, don't travel
for
business and, most likely, don't have a job at all, or, at least, the
kind
of job that requires any standard of dress, performance and
professionalism.

Throwing insults at me doesn't enhance your image.

They're not insults, but observations. It is clear that you don't travel
for business. It is also clear that you don't understand the importance of
looking professional and have the tools of your profession with you when you
do.


And that is the stupidest thing you've said yet in this thread.
Business
travelers rarely have many options about when they can travel.

But a smart person will look at the options and judge the flights. You can
alos look at predicted weather and an experienced traveller will have a
good
idea of the odds of making the connection or not. You then pack
accordingly.

Most business travelers, including myself, do not have the luxury of picking
when they'll fly.


Has it ever occured to you that a simple ziplok with a bit of detergent in
it
would allow you to clean your shirt overnight if you didn't get your
luggage ?

I work in the hotel room. I don't wash and iron clothes.

(and I suspect most hotels would provide you with some laundry detergent
if
you asked the right folks). Has it ever occured to you that most hotels
will
provide you with a ironing board and iron if you ask ? (and the really big
hotels will have overnight dry cleaning/ironing services).

No business hotel that I'm aware of has overnight cleaning services,
including the ones I stay at in major cities like New York.



Seems to me that you're the one who hasn't travelled much and doesn't have
much experience in dealing with lost luggage so you tend to bring
everything
but the kitchen sink as carry on because you don't know how to handle a
situation where you lost your luggage.

You haven't a clue what I bring, other than my cellphone charger, which is
all that I've talked about. I have no problems travelling with my carryons,
nor do I cause problems for anyone else based on what I bring. If you want
to know how much I travel, and what I do, spend a little time on google --
it won't take you long to find out.

"Miguel Cruz" wrote in message
...
PTRAVEL wrote:
"Stephen Harman" wrote:
PS try doing US security with a baby and a stroller that only fits
through
some x ray machines.

There's an obvious answer, but that's another, and very old, thread.

Forego the stoller and ask a nearby business traveler to carry the baby
"just until we get on the plane"?

Duct tape. Works wonders.



miguel
--
See the world from your web browser: http://travel.u.nu/

Roland Perry wrote:
In message , mrtravel
writes

What is the big deal about carry it with you in the first place?
I don't see why there was an issue. They are small enough to fit in a
pocket. I usually carry mine in my laptop bag when traveling.


Oh, do keep up! The "big deal" is whether it's essential enough to be in
your carry-on rather than in your (might get lost) checked baggage.

Why in the world would you not have room for a cell charge in your carryon?

Sleepy Racoon wrote:
mrtravel wrote:

Are you saying you don't have the ability to carry your laptop in your
hand without dropping it on the floor?



One normally packs in such a way that one can walk, stand at check in counter
etc without fear of dropping items.

But when you prepage to go through security, you tend to "reconfigure" you
hand luggage, at which point, you hands may get quite busy with stuff and the
laptop is no longer such a sure thing.


What "reconfigure"? How many hands do you need? You can reconfigure
BEFORE getting in line. Generally you should have a hand free to hold
your laptop in.

I tend to agree with the idea of waiting until you reach the table before
taking laptop out.

Another potential problem is waiting for the tray to put your keys, change etc
into. One solution is to bring a ziplok bag with you and empty the contents in
the bag and then put the bag into your carryon. You can then walk way from the
checkpoint faster since you don't have to handled the coins/keys etc in the
small tray.

That is my point.. Your change, keys, etc should already have been put
away BEFORE getting to security.

On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 16:55:34 -0500 in rec.travel.air, Horny
Raccoon wrote:

And if you have stuff that is *really* important, then you send it FedEx a few
days early and then verify that it has arrived at hotel so that if there has
been a problem, you can bring a second copy of documents with you.

you have NO clue about business travel. PLONK.

PTRAVEL wrote:
person. As for borrowing umbrellas, that's fine _if_ you go to the hotel
first, _if_ you're going to return after and _if_ you don't mind dragging a
full-size umbrella around at court all day. Many ifs.

Reminds me of the guy from Wham who had a whole video redone because he didn't
like the way his hair was.

If you are so important, then you can take a cab that will drop you off
directly in front of the court house and won't have to feel more than a couple
drops of rain. And if the court appearance is so important, you won't be
arriving last minute and those few drops of rain will have had plenty of time
to dry off.

Of course, if you are 90 years old and take half an hour to walk from the cab
to the entrance of the court house, things are different. And again, we are
talking about those occasions where your luggage woudln't have made it *AND*
the weather is such that it is raining.

No, tri-mode are dual-band CDMA and analogue. Motorola and Samsung make
them for Verizon, among others.

That is what Verizon calls them. But they are bi mode dual frequency. They
only support 2 protocols (IA95 (CDMA) and analogue (AMPS)). There are tri-mode
phones on the market (AT&T will be needing them to service its GSM and old
TDMA and older AMPS networks), and those will also have dual frequency to use
1900 and 850 for the GSM and TDMA modes.

And then I can't make or receive phone calls, which is the whole point of
the cellular phone.

Unless Verizon has crippled features, learn to use your voice mail and call
forwarding effectively. And if you are really such a hot shot, why don't you
get an Iridium handset and service ?

Again, if your old phone only has automony for 3 days, that is more than ample
time for your luggage to arrive. Learn to use it more effectively.

secondary airports and I don't fly commuters.

Your problem not mine. If your time is so valuable, how come you can afford to
drive such long distances and arrive tired instead of taking a smaller plane ?

job yet. My clients have my cellphone number because, as part of the
service I provide, they can call me 24/7 if they need me.

Do you know what voice mail is ? Do you have your phone when you're at the
toilet ? Do you have a waterpropof phone so you can have it with you while you
take a shower ?

If your phone is so important, you should get one that has greater automony.

"call me back at this number," nor do I tell them, "I'll call you back." I
take the call. Period.

What happens if they call you while you are at a very dangerous/difficult
intersection with lots of traffic ? Doe they get to hear your death as your
car crashes into some truck, or do you politely tell them that you're driving
and you'll call them back in a minute or two ? (or just to hold while you get
out of the dangerous situation ?

Incidently, if and when you do get a job that requires you to travel for
business, you'll learn that long-distance calls are heavily surcharged in
business hotels.

Nobody is advising you to use hotel phones on a regular basis. Only in those
cases where your phone battery is running low.

I don't "overburden" myself. I have two carryons.

Well, someone in this thread did mention some of the folks who carry too much
stuff. Isn't that what the thread is all about ?

tee-shirt. I will _never_ check bags when I travel for business.

And don't expect any sympathy when TSA decides to fully examine the boatload
you are carrying as carry-on luggage. Had you said "there are times where I
can't afford to risk losing luggage and hence carry it all with me", you would
have had respect. But your blanket statement makes you look like the
inexperienced one.


I don't use SMS. However, Verizon has an adequate substitute -- email can
be sent direct to my phone.

Unless you have a phone equipped with the CDMA eequivalent of GPRS, those
email messages are sent as an SMS to your phone and you only get the first 150
characters (or multiple messages of 150 characters). (GSM is able to fit 160
characters in an SMS).

I don't get what you probably consider an "urgent" SMS. Or, more
accurately, if there is something truly urgent, my secretary will send email
to my phone

its's an SMS.

and to my in-firm and private email, will call my cellphone, and
fax my hotel. He'll also call my wife and my travel agent.

See, there are ways to reach you when your phone is inoperative.

then manage by regularly checking your voicemail.

Which I would do from my cellphone. Which would need to be charged.

You can check your voice mails from a pay phone. Saving your batteries. I
guess it isn't cool for an expensive lawyer to be seen using a payphone.

Sorry, but I think you're wrong. I don't think handlers look at anything
other than check-in-applied luggage sticker. They don't read hand-written
tags. They don't notice hand-written tags.

I am not talking about tags with your name on it attached to the handle. I am
talking about large stickers on both sides of your suitcase. And I am talking
about computer generated labels, not handwritten ones.

And that's contrary to everything that I know about flying. Have you ever
_watched_ a luggage handler? They're not looking at anything. They simply
throw the bags from the cart onto the belt.

There are many levels of luggage handling. The ones you see on the tarmac are
not the only ones. You also have the ones in the luggage makeup room that take
sorted luggage and load them onto containers (or troleys for non-containerized
aircraft), and in smaller airport, you have manual luggage sorting that bring
luggage to the right bin in the luggage makeup room. (this is mechanical in
larger airports).

It is the ones in the makeup room that have a chance to spot routing errors
and correct them.

Again, you haven't a clue what you're talking about. If your luggage misses
it's connection, it is sent to a luggage handling facility where it is
entered into the "lost luggage" system.

Missing a connection is quite different from misrouted.

They will know right away that your luggage has missed its connection, and
they can them put in on the next flight (and yes, they will enter it into the
computer so that you, at the other airport will have an idea of when it will arrive.

With misrouted luggage, it is more lengthy process since your luggage must
first turn around in the luggage belt until it is declared unclaimed, at which
point they will look at the tags, and if it was misrouted, enter it into the
computer, again with next flight to destination. Meanwhile, at the terminating
airport, you have the airline enter the delivery details of where the luggage
should be delivered. The computers will assemble both messages into one based
on the airline tag number.

the destination lost-luggage office. They, in turn, will eventually
organize a delivery service to bring it to your hotel.

"eventually" is not quite right. When the lugagge is found, it is given a
special tag so that at the destination it is sent immediatly to the lost
luggage dept.

Do you think a luggage delivery person will be allowed to bring it to me in
court?

They would leave it with the security guard if so instructed. Not different
from FedEx.

I work in the hotel room. I don't wash and iron clothes.

And I guess your wiofe should remain barefoot and pregnant ?

No business hotel that I'm aware of has overnight cleaning services,
including the ones I stay at in major cities like New York.

I have stayed in a few that had. I've had a black tie suit pressed overnight a
few times.

Note that all those occasions were outside the USA. Perhaps the USA big hotels
have that service, but you never inquired.

PTRAVEL wrote:
"Miguel Cruz" wrote:
PTRAVEL wrote:
"Stephen Harman" wrote:
PS try doing US security with a baby and a stroller that only fits
through some x ray machines.

There's an obvious answer, but that's another, and very old, thread.

Forego the stoller and ask a nearby business traveler to carry the baby
"just until we get on the plane"?

Duct tape. Works wonders.

Just please remember to leave an air hole in the coccoon.

miguel
--
See the world from your web browser: http://travel.u.nu/

mrtravel wrote:
What "reconfigure"? How many hands do you need? You can reconfigure
BEFORE getting in line. Generally you should have a hand free to hold
your laptop in.

Well, if you need to remove your shoes while holding on to your briefcase,
umbrella, laptop, laptop case etc, it can be quite an exercise unless you are
some acrobat :-)

That is my point.. Your change, keys, etc should already have been put
away BEFORE getting to security.

Define "getting to security" ? If you must wait in line for 45 minutes before
getting to a point where you are 2nd or 3rd in line to go through the arch, at
what point do you start to prepare for it ? Pointless to have your laptop out
of case for that length of time.

And if there is absolutely nobody at the security checkpoint, is it then wrong
to stop at the tables to get all your stuff ready and then proceed ? Or
should you do that ahead of time prior to approaching that spot ?

Also, do you really want to have all your hands full when they ask you to see
your boarding pass and for international flights, passport ?

The thing is that things vary from airport to airport. I was once all into the
routine of dumping all my stuff from pockets into those little trays, until I
got to a security checkpoint where I had to wait because all those trays were
still on the other side and I had to ask for one. That is when I though of
having my own plastic bag for pocket contents.

"Stephen Harman" wrote in message
...

"AJC" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 09 Nov 2003 08:53:52 GMT, mrtravel wrote:

AJC wrote

You are again ignoring the fact that by that stage his carry-on bag,
his coat, a tray with his keys and coins may well have been on their
way through the scanner. Are the security personnel really going to
want someone to move away at that stage?
--==++AJC++==--

Keys and coins could be put elsewhere.. It sounds like he is one of the
many people who don't even try to get the laptop out of the bag until
it
is time for them to walk through the metal detector.


That is probably because, as the op already said, he did not expect to
have to take his laptop out of the bag. He said he goes through
security at a major international airport every day and does not have
to remove it from it's bag. It seems the US has particular practices
that differ from standard security practices in other places. That's
fine, but it means that people who are used to going through security
checks at airports in other parts of the world may not be aware of
what is required to prepare for a security check at a US airport.

--==++AJC++==--

No there was no queue when he arrived at security. Hence no time to pre
prepare. The laptop caused a problem, others ariving then resulted in a
queue.

PS try doing US security with a baby and a stroller that only fits through
some x ray machines.

Take the baby out of the stroller and put them through the x-ray machine
separately :-)

"Roland Perry" wrote in message
...
In message , Dick Locke
writes
in a business negotiation context. It implies that Brits are less
comfortable with direct gaze than Americans.

It's something to do with the degree of familiarity. Americans in
business negotiations seem to me to get to the point where they want to
be your buddy, and at that stage eye contact is required to demonstrate
sincerity. It's the situation between strangers that's more likely to
crop up in an airport.

Agreed, they read books telling them how to become your instant buddy, with
all the eye contact, body language, writing notes about personal details etc
etc. Whereas in the stranger situation you don't look someone in the eye,
because its a threat and they may pull a gun on you. I guess in the UK we
dont normally look total strangers in the eye e.g. when passing in the
street, its just when we 'engage' them in conversation that we do.