Elderhostel Kenya--a bargain or ?

Liz wrote:

The Mara will be pretty quiet in January: most of the game is in
Serengeti dropping calves about this time.

That's a common misconception. Yes, the 'great migration' is in
Tanzania, but the Mara also has lots of resident animals, so it never
gets 'quiet'. The resident animals will have calves as well, so you
could see a lot of young animals in the Mara in Januari.


--
Johan W. Elzenga johanatjohanfoto.nl
Editor / Photographer http://www.johanfoto.nl/

In message
lid (Johan W. Elzenga) wrote:

Liz wrote:

The Mara will be pretty quiet in January: most of the game is in
Serengeti dropping calves about this time.

That's a common misconception. Yes, the 'great migration' is in
Tanzania, but the Mara also has lots of resident animals, so it never
gets 'quiet'.

I was there in the first/second week of July in 1995 and it was so
almost totally devoid of animals that after two days we gave up and
went birding to some areas I'd researched in advance. Our guide was
very grateful we were birders: the other visitors were all bored and
the lack of animals was the big talk and complant in our camp.

The migration arrived in the Mara a few days after we left. It
certainly all happens *very* quickly: early one morning there were a
few wildbeest just south of Keekorok: after breakfast there were
thousands, all around!

I haven't been to Kenya in January, though.

Slainte

Liz


--
Virtual Liz now at http://www.v-liz.com
Kenya; Tanzania; Namibia; India; Seychelles; Galapagos
"I speak of Africa and golden joys"

In message
Liz wrote:


The migration arrived in the Mara a few days after we left. It
certainly all happens *very* quickly: early one morning there were a
few wildbeest just south of Keekorok: after breakfast there were
thousands, all around!

Sorry:
that should have been two separate statements:
The migration arrived in the Mara a few days after we left.

It certainly all happens *very* quickly: on our last visit in July
2002, early one morning there were a few wildbeest just south of
Keekorok: after breakfast there were thousands, all around!

Slainte

Liz

--
Virtual Liz now at http://www.v-liz.com
Kenya; Tanzania; Namibia; India; Seychelles; Galapagos
"I speak of Africa and golden joys"

Liz wrote:

That's a common misconception. Yes, the 'great migration' is in
Tanzania, but the Mara also has lots of resident animals, so it never
gets 'quiet'.

I was there in the first/second week of July in 1995 and it was so
almost totally devoid of animals that after two days we gave up and
went birding to some areas I'd researched in advance. Our guide was
very grateful we were birders: the other visitors were all bored and
the lack of animals was the big talk and complant in our camp.

You've mentioned that before, as I recall. If I understand it correctly,
ONE experience of TEN YEARS ago makes you think it's always that way?

The migration arrived in the Mara a few days after we left. It
certainly all happens *very* quickly: early one morning there were a
few wildbeest just south of Keekorok: after breakfast there were
thousands, all around!

I haven't been to Kenya in January, though.

I have, several times. And I was in the Masai Mara mid March if THIS
year. Believe me, there was plenty to see.


--
Johan W. Elzenga johanatjohanfoto.nl
Editor / Photographer http://www.johanfoto.nl/

In message
lid (Johan W. Elzenga) wrote:

Liz wrote:

That's a common misconception. Yes, the 'great migration' is in
Tanzania, but the Mara also has lots of resident animals, so it never
gets 'quiet'.

I was there in the first/second week of July in 1995 and it was so
almost totally devoid of animals that after two days we gave up and
went birding to some areas I'd researched in advance. Our guide was
very grateful we were birders: the other visitors were all bored and
the lack of animals was the big talk and complant in our camp.

You've mentioned that before, as I recall. If I understand it correctly,
ONE experience of TEN YEARS ago makes you think it's always that way?

It's the only time I've personally been there out of the migration,
but other people I know who have been 'out of season' have said the
same.

Do you know a specific reason why 1995 was different to the norm?
None of the guides seemed to think it was unusual or that there was a
specific reason for it: they just said the migration was later than
usual that year.

I've got friends who are going to the Mara for a week in November
(they chose by price), so I'll be interested in hearing their
experiences. They're going with Saga, which I suppose is the nearest
UK equivalent to Elderhostel?

Slainte

Liz

--
Virtual Liz now at http://www.v-liz.com
Kenya; Tanzania; Namibia; India; Seychelles; Galapagos
"I speak of Africa and golden joys"

Liz wrote:

You've mentioned that before, as I recall. If I understand it correctly,
ONE experience of TEN YEARS ago makes you think it's always that way?

It's the only time I've personally been there out of the migration,
but other people I know who have been 'out of season' have said the
same.

It all depends on your expectations, I suppose. If you expect to see
thousands of animals per square kilometer, you say it's 'quiet' when you
see one hundred. Even if that number would be the same as in any other
park. I've been in the Masai Mara twenty times or so, often 'out of
season' as well. Yes, the number of animals varies, but there is always
enough to see. To almost see nothing for a number of days is really
unusual. In March I saw a great number of elephants, many lions, three
cheetahs, one rhino, elands, many giraffes and the usual 'small stuff'
in only three days. Some other people also saw a leopard.

Do you know a specific reason why 1995 was different to the norm?

No, of course I don't. I don't even know if it really was different. You
can always be unlucky and not see too much for a few days. That can
happen anywhere in Africa, it's not a zoo. Here are a few numbers from a
research study in 1986 (Herbivores in Africa, Journal of Wildlife
Managment 50/2). I give you the figures for May and migration time:

Wildebeests 101,700 819,500
Zebra 65,200 107,800
Topi 31,500 25,500
Buffalo 30,000 31,500
Kongoni 8,900 5,000
Thommies 106,500 90,500
Grants 19,900 18,500
Impala 59,200 51,800
Eland 8,500 4,600

As you can see, the migration actually causes a lot of resident animals
to be dispersed. Their numbers go DOWN during the migration. There are a
lot more wildebeests and zebras, but the rest is either steady or down.

None of the guides seemed to think it was unusual or that there was a
specific reason for it: they just said the migration was later than
usual that year.

Which only shows how focused people are on the migration. If the place
isn't overrun by wildebeests, it's 'quiet'. It's the same for the 'big
five' for tourists. If they haven't seen elephant, rhino or big cats
during a game drive, they'll say they've seen 'nothing at all'.

I've got friends who are going to the Mara for a week in November
(they chose by price), so I'll be interested in hearing their
experiences. They're going with Saga, which I suppose is the nearest
UK equivalent to Elderhostel?

I'm sure they will have a great time and see a lot, especially if they
are open for more than just the big five.




--
Johan W. Elzenga johanatjohanfoto.nl
Editor / Photographer http://www.johanfoto.nl/

In message
lid (Johan W. Elzenga) wrote:

Liz wrote:

You've mentioned that before, as I recall. If I understand it correctly,
ONE experience of TEN YEARS ago makes you think it's always that way?

It's the only time I've personally been there out of the migration,
but other people I know who have been 'out of season' have said the
same.

It all depends on your expectations, I suppose. If you expect to see
thousands of animals per square kilometer, you say it's 'quiet' when you
see one hundred. Even if that number would be the same as in any other
park. I've been in the Masai Mara twenty times or so, often 'out of
season' as well. Yes, the number of animals varies, but there is always
enough to see. To almost see nothing for a number of days is really
unusual. In March I saw a great number of elephants, many lions, three
cheetahs, one rhino, elands, many giraffes and the usual 'small stuff'
in only three days. Some other people also saw a leopard.

Well, yes.
But best, if possible, to be there at the right time, surely.
I've found my records for that trip.
We stayed at Siana Springs (not a good location, *my* mistake, I chose
it for the night drive, which was disappoinging, but we were just out
of luck there too!) for five nights but took out packed lunches for
the first two full days so that we could be out all day and travel
further.
We saw:
African Elephant
Bat-eared Fox (near the camp (not in the NP), and also on the night
drive)
Black Rhinoceros
Black-faced Vervet (only in the camp, apparantly!)
Black-tipped Mongoose (only in the camp, definitely)
Bushbuck (one around the camp)
Plains Zebra (small numbers)
Cape Buffalo
Cheetah
Genet (? species) (comes to the bird table at the camp at night)
Grant's Gazelle
Hippopotamus (at the Hippo Pools)
Impala
Kirk's Dikdik
Kongoni (Coke's Hartebeest)
Leopard (comes to bait at the camp)
Lion (different groupings, including the ones shown on
http://www.v-liz.com/safari/mara/marp_d.htm - the other pix weren't
necessarily taken on that trip)
Masai Giraffe
Silver-becked Jackal
Spotted Hyaena
Spring Hare (on night drive)
Straw-coloured Bat (in camp)
Thomson's Gazelle
Topi (about 300 one morning, all 'turned their tails' to us: had
'disappeared' by the afternoon!)
Warthog
Waterbuck
White-tailed Mongoose (night drive)
Wildebeest (we only saw one young one, on three occasions, presumably
the same one, looking very distressed)


The point, as you say, is you could see most of this in any other park
(so why go all that way - 'off-season' you'd get at least as much in
Nairobi NP/Amboseli, add on Samburu/Buffalo Springs and Lake Nakuru
and you've got a good, well-rounded trip, add also Lake Baringo and
Lake Naivasha if you're into birding and it's perfect,) but they were
in very small numbers in the Mara that time, and since our first trip,
the previous year, had been earlier in July and we saw a lot more, we
had very high expectations. We didn't visit the Mara at all on our
next trip, and since then we always made sure we went there at the end
of our trips. But sometimes the migration comes into the Mara at the
end of June: it's just your luck.


In any case, the OP asked what he could get if he spent double the
money. There are several options:

Go at the right time for what you want to see, or if you have to go
then for work or other reasons, go to the right place (Serengeti will
be better in January)

Go on a tailor-made trip for just you and a companion (choose where to
stay and how long to stay at each place. Have the 'driver/guide and
vehicle at your disposal.) With enough money, have the guide and
vehicle to yourself!

Stay longer.

Stay in expensive small camps.

Get a specialist guide (e.g. a specialist bird guide who will sort out
the cisticolas!)

Or some combination of the above.

Slainte

Liz
--
Virtual Liz now at http://www.v-liz.com
Kenya; Tanzania; Namibia; India; Seychelles; Galapagos
"I speak of Africa and golden joys"

I am the originial poster--several people wondered about the vehicles
used and how many people in each.

Elderhostel uses Across Africa Safaris with 6 people in a van like this
with open top

http://www.acrossafricasafaris.co.ke/about.asp

as a reminder, here is a summary

http://www.elderhostel.org/programs/...sonalCatalog=1

and itinerary

http://www.elderhostel.org/programs/...DId=1%2D1BQIO1

I am sure this is far from the best but I am tempted to go ahead
because it is inexpensive and a decent first trip

thanks in advance for any comments

John

In message .com
" wrote:


I am sure this is far from the best but I am tempted to go ahead
because it is inexpensive and a decent first trip

I'm sure you'll have a great time!
I also did a group trip for my first safari, it was a great recce
trip. Make sure you talk to people outside your own group: that way
you get to hear about other possibilities and get ideas for your next
trip.

Safari njema

Liz


--
Virtual Liz now at http://www.v-liz.com
Kenya; Tanzania; Namibia; India; Seychelles; Galapagos
"I speak of Africa and golden joys"