Istanbul and Gallipoli

On 4 Jun, 13:57, grusl wrote:
On Jun 4, 4:53 pm, Norman Spiney wrote:



On 4 Jun, 13:49, grusl wrote:

On Jun 4, 4:33 pm, Norman Spiney wrote:

On 4 Jun, 13:27, grusl wrote:

On Jun 4, 3:22 pm, Norman Spiney wrote:

On 4 Jun, 12:05, grusl wrote:

On Jun 4, 2:37 pm, Norman Spiney wrote:

On 4 Jun, 11:22, "grusl" wrote:

I'm off to Istanbul for a few days this month. First visit to Turkey and
basically a spur-of-the-moment idea while my wife is visiting her mother.

I'm flying BLR-IST with GF (two four-hour hops with a two hour layover in
BAH and, being GF, will no doubt be late), which cost INR40,000 - about
USD1000 - and staying at the Turing Ayasofya Konaklari in Sogukçesme sokagi
in the Sultanahmet district at EUR120 per night. (No doubt those diacritics
won't come out).

In the middle of the stay I'm planning for an overnight trip to Gallipoli
via Canakkale. The hotel says it does group tours, which I don't especially
mind in an unfamiliar country (and especially if there are knowledgable
veterans on the tour ... not from the original 1915 conflict of course), but
if anyone knows a more interesting way to see the battlefield sites and
memorials I'm listening. I'm OK with bus, train or car options.

I have the LP guide to Istanbul and I'm basically interested in the city's
history, architecture, art, museums, walking, and eating and drinking
(restaurant and raki bar recommendations welcome; I'm completely
omnivorous). I'm not a shopper. I take photos but not well.. My brief
research into Canakkale gives the general impression it's a swinging
university town but I may have to adjust that for local sentiments.

Cheers,

George W Russell

Bangalore

all that time and expense just to see some graves ?!- Hide quoted text -

Yes, I suppose Westminster Abbey falls into the same category.

The time is negligible - overnight - and I don't know about the cost
yet.

Cheers,
George W Russell
Bangalore

Westminster Abbey is a large historic building in the centre of
London....
Gallipoli is overrated, Pergammon / Goreme / Pamukkale are much more
interesting-

I'm sure Gallipoli is larger than Westminster. Anyway, I think London
is overrated.

....Gallipoli is a large field,zzzzzzz, but if you insist on going at
least drop in on the Turks as well, it'll make your driver happy- Hide quoted text -

Westminster is a large church zzzzzzzzzzz

indeed, and thats about 30 minutes of site seeing for no extra effort.

I imagine I will see the occasional Turk with a week in Istanbul.

ah, but they wont buried in a field....- Hide quoted text -

SHUT UP

Cheers,
George W Russell
Bangalore

enjoy Gelibolu......zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

On 4 Jun, 12:32, Jack Campin - bogus address
wrote:
I have only limited interest in watching Aussies trying to persuade themselves they're having a deeply
meaningful experience.

yep, that was my impression too....

On Jun 4, 5:06*pm, Norman Spiney wrote:
On 4 Jun, 13:57, grusl wrote:





On Jun 4, 4:53 pm, Norman Spiney wrote:

On 4 Jun, 13:49, grusl wrote:

On Jun 4, 4:33 pm, Norman Spiney wrote:

On 4 Jun, 13:27, grusl wrote:

On Jun 4, 3:22 pm, Norman Spiney wrote:

On 4 Jun, 12:05, grusl wrote:

On Jun 4, 2:37 pm, Norman Spiney wrote:

On 4 Jun, 11:22, "grusl" wrote:

I'm off to Istanbul for a few days this month. First visit to Turkey and
basically a spur-of-the-moment idea while my wife is visiting her mother.

I'm flying BLR-IST with GF (two four-hour hops with a two hour layover in
BAH and, being GF, will no doubt be late), which cost INR40,000 - about
USD1000 - and staying at the Turing Ayasofya Konaklari in Sogukçesme sokagi
in the Sultanahmet district at EUR120 per night. (No doubt those diacritics
won't come out).

In the middle of the stay I'm planning for an overnight trip to Gallipoli
via Canakkale. The hotel says it does group tours, which I don't especially
mind in an unfamiliar country (and especially if there are knowledgable
veterans on the tour ... not from the original 1915 conflict of course), but
if anyone knows a more interesting way to see the battlefield sites and
memorials I'm listening. I'm OK with bus, train or car options.

I have the LP guide to Istanbul and I'm basically interested in the city's
history, architecture, art, museums, walking, and eating and drinking
(restaurant and raki bar recommendations welcome; I'm completely
omnivorous). I'm not a shopper. I take photos but not well. My brief
research into Canakkale gives the general impression it's a swinging
university town but I may have to adjust that for local sentiments.

Cheers,

George W Russell

Bangalore

all that time and expense just to see some graves ?!- Hide quoted text -

Yes, I suppose Westminster Abbey falls into the same category.

The time is negligible - overnight - and I don't know about the cost
yet.

Cheers,
George W Russell
Bangalore

Westminster Abbey is a large historic building in the centre of
London....
Gallipoli is overrated, Pergammon / Goreme / *Pamukkale are much more
interesting-

I'm sure Gallipoli is larger than Westminster. Anyway, I think London
is overrated.

....Gallipoli is a large field,zzzzzzz, but if you insist on going at
least drop in on the Turks as well, it'll make your driver happy- Hide quoted text -

Westminster is a large church zzzzzzzzzzz

indeed, and thats about 30 minutes of site seeing for no extra effort.

I imagine I will see the occasional Turk with a week in Istanbul.

ah, but they wont buried in a field....- Hide quoted text -

SHUT UP

Cheers,
George W Russell
Bangalore

enjoy Gelibolu......zzzzzzzzzzzzzz- Hide quoted text -



enjoy Belgium zzzzzzzzzzzzz

On 4 Jun, 14:19, grusl wrote:
On Jun 4, 5:06 pm, Norman Spiney wrote:



On 4 Jun, 13:57, grusl wrote:

On Jun 4, 4:53 pm, Norman Spiney wrote:

On 4 Jun, 13:49, grusl wrote:

On Jun 4, 4:33 pm, Norman Spiney wrote:

On 4 Jun, 13:27, grusl wrote:

On Jun 4, 3:22 pm, Norman Spiney wrote:

On 4 Jun, 12:05, grusl wrote:

On Jun 4, 2:37 pm, Norman Spiney wrote:

On 4 Jun, 11:22, "grusl" wrote:

I'm off to Istanbul for a few days this month. First visit to Turkey and
basically a spur-of-the-moment idea while my wife is visiting her mother.

I'm flying BLR-IST with GF (two four-hour hops with a two hour layover in
BAH and, being GF, will no doubt be late), which cost INR40,000 - about
USD1000 - and staying at the Turing Ayasofya Konaklari in Sogukçesme sokagi
in the Sultanahmet district at EUR120 per night. (No doubt those diacritics
won't come out).

In the middle of the stay I'm planning for an overnight trip to Gallipoli
via Canakkale. The hotel says it does group tours, which I don't especially
mind in an unfamiliar country (and especially if there are knowledgable
veterans on the tour ... not from the original 1915 conflict of course), but
if anyone knows a more interesting way to see the battlefield sites and
memorials I'm listening. I'm OK with bus, train or car options.

I have the LP guide to Istanbul and I'm basically interested in the city's
history, architecture, art, museums, walking, and eating and drinking
(restaurant and raki bar recommendations welcome; I'm completely
omnivorous). I'm not a shopper. I take photos but not well. My brief
research into Canakkale gives the general impression it's a swinging
university town but I may have to adjust that for local sentiments.

Cheers,

George W Russell

Bangalore

all that time and expense just to see some graves ?!- Hide quoted text -

Yes, I suppose Westminster Abbey falls into the same category.

The time is negligible - overnight - and I don't know about the cost
yet.

Cheers,
George W Russell
Bangalore

Westminster Abbey is a large historic building in the centre of
London....
Gallipoli is overrated, Pergammon / Goreme / Pamukkale are much more
interesting-

I'm sure Gallipoli is larger than Westminster. Anyway, I think London
is overrated.

....Gallipoli is a large field,zzzzzzz, but if you insist on going at
least drop in on the Turks as well, it'll make your driver happy- Hide quoted text -

Westminster is a large church zzzzzzzzzzz

indeed, and thats about 30 minutes of site seeing for no extra effort.

I'm planning for an overnight trip to Gallipoli
all that time and expense just to see some graves ?!
That's a pretty tasteless comment. Those graves mean a lot to those
visiting Gallipoli, particularly Australians and New Zealanders, who
lost many men there. Tours there are becoming increasingly popular,
particularly in the lead up to the centenary of the battle.

I grew up in New Zealand, so I'm well aware of the connotations
of Anzac Day. That was long enough ago that the guys leading the
parade were veterans of the Boer War. Much of this Gallipoli
nostalgia has developed since then. It's a synthetic reactionary
culture industry, and the people who have fallen into it mostly
don't know what they're buying into. Back when I was a kid, the
celebrations were used for rallying support for NZ's battalion of
hired killers in Vietnam, and anybody who thinks it couldn't be used
the same way again just isn't thinking. (The "support the troops"
nonsense in the US is much like what I grew up with in Kiwi hickdom -
commemorations of the veterans of past wars are used to silence any
voices that might suggest those fighting the present ones are a
bunch of mercenary thugs who deserve whatever they get).


The good thing is that it is kindling an interest in history, even
the bad bits.

Is it now? How many of those Aussie Gallipoli tourists ever get to
find out about the other end of the Turkish front in Mesopotamia,
where Britain was engaged in a war to expropriate Iraq's oil before
there even was an Iraq? How many of them get to find out about the
way the Turkish state used this campaign and Ataturk's role in it
to impose a fascist leader cult and crush democracy? War tourism's
main function is to put up screens around the bits of history that
might genuinely illuminate what's happening today. It shows you the
truth, but nothing like the whole truth, or enough of the truth to
threaten the governing elites that fund the battlefield museums.

BTW, the Holocaust industry is not very different - there is a book
called "The Holocaust and Modern Memory" that documents how it came
about. It didn't develop naturally and directly out of the experience
of WW2 - most of it was created by the state of Israel after 1967 as
a way of furthering its foreign policy objectives.

==== j a c k at c a m p i n . m e . u k === http://www.campin.me.uk ====
Jack Campin, 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland == mob 07800 739 557
CD-ROMs and free stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, and Mac logic fonts

On 4 Jun, 11:22, Norman Spiney wrote:
On 4 Jun, 12:05, grusl wrote:





On Jun 4, 2:37 pm, Norman Spiney wrote:

On 4 Jun, 11:22, "grusl" wrote:

I'm off to Istanbul for a few days this month. First visit to Turkey and
basically a spur-of-the-moment idea while my wife is visiting her mother.

I'm flying BLR-IST with GF (two four-hour hops with a two hour layover in
BAH and, being GF, will no doubt be late), which cost INR40,000 - about
USD1000 - and staying at the Turing Ayasofya Konaklari in Sogukçesme sokagi
in the Sultanahmet district at EUR120 per night. (No doubt those diacritics
won't come out).

In the middle of the stay I'm planning for an overnight trip to Gallipoli
via Canakkale. The hotel says it does group tours, which I don't especially
mind in an unfamiliar country (and especially if there are knowledgable
veterans on the tour ... not from the original 1915 conflict of course), but
if anyone knows a more interesting way to see the battlefield sites and
memorials I'm listening. I'm OK with bus, train or car options.

I have the LP guide to Istanbul and I'm basically interested in the city's
history, architecture, art, museums, walking, and eating and drinking
(restaurant and raki bar recommendations welcome; I'm completely
omnivorous). I'm not a shopper. I take photos but not well. My brief
research into Canakkale gives the general impression it's a swinging
university town but I may have to adjust that for local sentiments.

Cheers,

George W Russell

Bangalore

all that time and expense just to see some graves ?!- Hide quoted text -

Yes, I suppose Westminster Abbey falls into the same category.

The time is negligible - overnight - and I don't know about the cost
yet.

Cheers,
George W Russell
Bangalore

Westminster Abbey is a large historic building in the centre of
London....
Gallipoli is overrated, Pergammon / Goreme / *Pamukkale are much more
interesting- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That depends on one's interests.
Gallipoli is fascinating assuming you're not just there for the
scenery.
Goreme is terrific for the scenery of course.
Pergamon is well beaten, in my view, by several other archeological
sites you haven't even mentioned.
And don't forget Troy while at Gallipoli.
Pamukkale was one of my disappointments, if anything.
Horses for courses.

Surreyman

On 4 Jun, 12:03, "Viviane" wrote:
That's a pretty tasteless comment. *Those graves mean a lot to those
visiting Gallipoli, particularly Australians and New Zealanders, who lost
many men there. *Tours there are becoming increasingly popular, particularly
in the lead up to the centenary of the battle. *The good thing is that it is
kindling an interest in history, even the bad bits.

If you are not from Australia, it is hard to understand the devastation
caused by the first world war. *Remember that these were mainly young men
who volunteered to join, purely out of patriotism to help fight a war at the
other end of the world. *Back then, it took months by sea to get there.
Many families lost all their men. *Many small towns lost many of their young
men. *All this from a small growing nation.

I could go on and on.

"Norman Spiney" wrote in message

...
On 4 Jun, 11:22, "grusl" wrote:





I'm off to Istanbul for a few days this month. First visit to Turkey and
basically a spur-of-the-moment idea while my wife is visiting her mother..

I'm flying BLR-IST with GF (two four-hour hops with a two hour layover in
BAH and, being GF, will no doubt be late), which cost INR40,000 - about
USD1000 - and staying at the Turing Ayasofya Konaklari in Sogukçesme
sokagi
in the Sultanahmet district at EUR120 per night. (No doubt those
diacritics
won't come out).

In the middle of the stay I'm planning for an overnight trip to Gallipoli
via Canakkale. The hotel says it does group tours, which I don't
especially
mind in an unfamiliar country (and especially if there are knowledgable
veterans on the tour ... not from the original 1915 conflict of course),
but
if anyone knows a more interesting way to see the battlefield sites and
memorials I'm listening. I'm OK with bus, train or car options.

I have the LP guide to Istanbul and I'm basically interested in the city's
history, architecture, art, museums, walking, and eating and drinking
(restaurant and raki bar recommendations welcome; I'm completely
omnivorous). I'm not a shopper. I take photos but not well. My brief
research into Canakkale gives the general impression it's a swinging
university town but I may have to adjust that for local sentiments.

Cheers,

George W Russell

Bangalore

all that time and expense just to see some graves ?!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hear, hear!

Surreyman

On 4 Jun, 15:59, Surreyman wrote:
On 4 Jun, 11:22, Norman Spiney wrote:



On 4 Jun, 12:05, grusl wrote:

On Jun 4, 2:37 pm, Norman Spiney wrote:

On 4 Jun, 11:22, "grusl" wrote:

I'm off to Istanbul for a few days this month. First visit to Turkey and
basically a spur-of-the-moment idea while my wife is visiting her mother.

I'm flying BLR-IST with GF (two four-hour hops with a two hour layover in
BAH and, being GF, will no doubt be late), which cost INR40,000 - about
USD1000 - and staying at the Turing Ayasofya Konaklari in Sogukçesme sokagi
in the Sultanahmet district at EUR120 per night. (No doubt those diacritics
won't come out).

In the middle of the stay I'm planning for an overnight trip to Gallipoli
via Canakkale. The hotel says it does group tours, which I don't especially
mind in an unfamiliar country (and especially if there are knowledgable
veterans on the tour ... not from the original 1915 conflict of course), but
if anyone knows a more interesting way to see the battlefield sites and
memorials I'm listening. I'm OK with bus, train or car options.

I have the LP guide to Istanbul and I'm basically interested in the city's
history, architecture, art, museums, walking, and eating and drinking
(restaurant and raki bar recommendations welcome; I'm completely
omnivorous). I'm not a shopper. I take photos but not well. My brief
research into Canakkale gives the general impression it's a swinging
university town but I may have to adjust that for local sentiments..

Cheers,

George W Russell

Bangalore

all that time and expense just to see some graves ?!- Hide quoted text -

Yes, I suppose Westminster Abbey falls into the same category.

The time is negligible - overnight - and I don't know about the cost
yet.

Cheers,
George W Russell
Bangalore

Westminster Abbey is a large historic building in the centre of
London....
Gallipoli is overrated, Pergammon / Goreme / Pamukkale are much more
interesting- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That depends on one's interests.
Gallipoli is fascinating assuming you're not just there for the
scenery.
Goreme is terrific for the scenery of course.
Pergamon is well beaten, in my view, by several other archeological
sites you haven't even mentioned.
And don't forget Troy while at Gallipoli.
Pamukkale was one of my disappointments, if anything.
Horses for courses.

Surreyman

Pergamon is well beaten, in my view,
Pergamon was great because it was devoid of tourists.

by several other archeological sites you haven't even mentioned.
exactly, theres a **** load of stuff better than Gallipoli

what was wrong with Pamukkale ?

On 4 Jun, 16:02, Surreyman wrote:
On 4 Jun, 12:03, "Viviane" wrote:



That's a pretty tasteless comment. Those graves mean a lot to those
visiting Gallipoli, particularly Australians and New Zealanders, who lost
many men there. Tours there are becoming increasingly popular, particularly
in the lead up to the centenary of the battle. The good thing is that it is
kindling an interest in history, even the bad bits.

If you are not from Australia, it is hard to understand the devastation
caused by the first world war. Remember that these were mainly young men
who volunteered to join, purely out of patriotism to help fight a war at the
other end of the world. Back then, it took months by sea to get there.
Many families lost all their men. Many small towns lost many of their young
men. All this from a small growing nation.

I could go on and on.

"Norman Spiney" wrote in message

...
On 4 Jun, 11:22, "grusl" wrote:

I'm off to Istanbul for a few days this month. First visit to Turkey and
basically a spur-of-the-moment idea while my wife is visiting her mother.

I'm flying BLR-IST with GF (two four-hour hops with a two hour layover in
BAH and, being GF, will no doubt be late), which cost INR40,000 - about
USD1000 - and staying at the Turing Ayasofya Konaklari in Sogukçesme
sokagi
in the Sultanahmet district at EUR120 per night. (No doubt those
diacritics
won't come out).

In the middle of the stay I'm planning for an overnight trip to Gallipoli
via Canakkale. The hotel says it does group tours, which I don't
especially
mind in an unfamiliar country (and especially if there are knowledgable
veterans on the tour ... not from the original 1915 conflict of course),
but
if anyone knows a more interesting way to see the battlefield sites and
memorials I'm listening. I'm OK with bus, train or car options.

I have the LP guide to Istanbul and I'm basically interested in the city's
history, architecture, art, museums, walking, and eating and drinking
(restaurant and raki bar recommendations welcome; I'm completely
omnivorous). I'm not a shopper. I take photos but not well. My brief
research into Canakkale gives the general impression it's a swinging
university town but I may have to adjust that for local sentiments.

Cheers,

George W Russell

Bangalore

all that time and expense just to see some graves ?!- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Hear, hear!

Surreyman

...you bought that **** too...

Viviane wrote:

If you are not from Australia, it is hard to understand the devastation
caused by the first world war.

Yeah, I'm sure those British, Belgians, French, and Germans (to name
just a few) find it particularly hard to understand. Particularly the
Belgians and French, with Ypres/Ieper and Verdun.