Continental dis-honoring upgrade

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 01:47:39 GMT, Really Me
wrote:

Really? What did they tell you? I thought you were told that your ticket
class was too low.

More nonsene. I already posted that information.

Stop trying to troll me. I don't play that game.

Post any other foolishness you wish but don't excpect a response from
me.

The acme of foolishness is spending thousands on an attorney to collect a
couple hundred dollars. You can't even define your monetary damages.

On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 06:22:25 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 23:03:05 -0400, wrote:

Not to this mindless immature twit. He would get laughed out of court
undoubtedly. He's just some cheap ******* that wants to squeeze
whatever he can out of an airline. Note he didn't tell us what type
of ticket he had in the first place. Probably the five dollar special
that he thinks he can leverage into a first class seat.

Ah yes, another troll who did not read the answer to his stupid
question. It's right there in the original posting.

Hang in there, jbk is one of a few people in here who almost always
sides with big institutions over individuals. You've got a good story,
and as you initially stated, if a bunch of people have had the same
thing happen to them, a potentially practical court action.

wrote in message . ..
It is good "on a paid ticket", not all paid tickets.


Huh? Even CO did not have the nerve to say something so silly.

Really? What did they tell you? I thought you were told that your ticket
class was too low.


He did.

Please allow me to interject a few comments on this lively discussion/
flamewar with some known FACTS that may partly explain, or at least
help
clarify some of the existing misunderstanding/controversy.

First of all, on the purchased ticket class being "too low", this is
a uniform policy, well publicized on the webpage and for OnePass
members
that not only certain fare classes are excluded from upgrade, but the
are used to establish the "pecking order" of those in line to be
upgraded (up to 5 days before departure), EXCEPT tickets purchased
in the full "Y" class price, which could be upgraded at the time of
purchase.

You have to read losts of fineprints in CO's policies to get all of
this.

I have. I have been a CO Platinum ever since the present program
started in 1999. My upgrades are automatic and complimentary, but
they are subject to the same rules joehark experienced.



There is NO ROOM to spell all that out on a voucher.



I was taken aback when I saw joehark's subject line. It's POSSIBLE,
because with all the self-imposed airline rules, there's almost
always the disclaimer that it can be CHANGED WITHOUT PRIOR NOTICE.

So, it was POSSIBLE that CO suddenly cut out upgrades (which would not
make me happy at all), but it turned out to be joehark's hyperbole,
based on the events surrounding his voucher.

I am sympathetic to Joehark's feeling of injustice done, but not
sympathetic with many of the reasons (or invalid reasons) he gave
in his post.



I infer joehark's fare must have been some kind of "bulk fare" by
discount houses. Reason for the inference: I ALWAYS purchased the
cheapest coach fare available (but not through clearing houses), and
some of the are were sooooo cheap that my FF miles from the trip were
worth MORE than the price of the ticket(s). But ALL of my cheap fares
were elegible for (free) upgrade to First Class. No exception.

Until the rules changed this year (about the "pecking order"), I have
had a 100% record on eligible upgrades (domestic, caribbean, and
Mexico)
during the 1999-2003 period, flying CO at least 75K miles each year.



Was there anything else on it, such as "some restrictions apply"?

There always is. But then there is no ROOM to print all the relevant
rules, restrictions, etc. that are spelled out on the webpage and
OnePass membership brochures.


Yes. The above sentence concluded with an phrase that is irrelevant
here ("excepting travel industry discounts). There were none.


I would expect limitations on free upgrades and tickets received in this
manner, which is why I prefer $$$ vouchers.

Any time. Those you can ALWAYS use, at the $$$ face value.


I don't understand the comment regarding BusinessFirst. I don't think CO
flies BF to Barbados, do they?

Here's an "obscure" point about CO's First Class and Business First
that
has gone through extended debates between myself and Vitaly
Schmatikov,
right here in this rec.travel.air forum. It's all in the archives. I
included the lastest "conclusion" below.

Basically, you CANNOT get complementary upgrade to INTERNATIONAL
Business
First Class seats with the nebulously defined Business First Class
service,
on TransAtlantic and TransPacific flights.

But Business First Class (cabins, with identical BS seats as those on
international flights) EXIST on certain domestic routes, and are
complimentarily upgraded. I have FLOWN many of those, on domestic
flights! Here's the LAST of my post on that controversy that should
shed some light on the "Business First" on domestic flights.

http://makeashorterlink.com/?N14C53AE8



According to their web site and according to the resrvation I made
they do - but then, it's such a screwed up airline whose people think
that Bermuda and Barbados are the same place, it would not surprise me
if they don't fly to either.

It was obviously a mistake on their part. It's not the first, nor
will
it be their last. That's why many of those who work in the "customer
service" department are not the brightest of the employees. Many are
there because they couldn't get a better job, and so they have to put
up with lots of customer complaints, valid or not, AND they make
mistakes more than they should.


I didn't say they didn't fly there only that I didn't think they had
BusinessFirst service. Are you familiar with what BusinessFirst is?

No. He buys sewer tickets by his own admission. He's a first class
wanabee that's too cheap to pay for it.

I buy sewer tickets too (but from the CO webpage sewer :-)). I have
flown hundreds of FREE first class on my sewer tickets, so I wouldn't
go so far as calling him a "cheap first class wannabee".

It pays to know the RULES, and use them to your advantage rather than
whining about them because you don't know the rules. That would be my
"lesson" on this episode.

I hope the rest of the speculations, conjectures, arguments are
clarified
by the post (Sept 2003) I included about, and the brief explanation
given
in this post.

-- Bob.

P.S. As I ALWAYS say, if you can find a better Frequent Flyer Program
than CO's OnePass, go for it! It ain't perfect. Far from it.
But from my flying experience, it beats the socks out of its
closest contender. YMMV.


Like other airlines, I suspect this
might be Business class, as other airlines tend to call it businss class
on international flights in standard domestic first class seating to
indicate this is not an "international" first class flight.


Yiou need more information. CO has First Class and Business First.
They are different services. The flight on which I reserved offers
only First Class, not Business First Class.

I don't need more information. I was suggesting the CO does NOT have
either BF or First class to Barbados. From EWR to BGI, they DO offer
First Class, but that still doesn't explain the comment made about
BusinessFirst.

Sure it does. He's plain stupid which explains it all.

Dick Locke extrapolated from data available...

On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 06:22:25 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 23:03:05 -0400, wrote:

Not to this mindless immature twit. He would get laughed out of court
undoubtedly. He's just some cheap ******* that wants to squeeze
whatever he can out of an airline. Note he didn't tell us what type
of ticket he had in the first place. Probably the five dollar special
that he thinks he can leverage into a first class seat.

Ah yes, another troll who did not read the answer to his stupid
question. It's right there in the original posting.

Hang in there, jbk is one of a few people in here who almost always
sides with big institutions over individuals. You've got a good story,
and as you initially stated, if a bunch of people have had the same
thing happen to them, a potentially practical court action.


I'm not sure how good your case is/was, but am surprised that CO didn't
come up with a better or more convincing response. If, as you claim, your
"certificate" contains no limitations beyond the phrase you quote, CO might
have difficulty in mounting a credible defense in court. I would probably
make another attempt, vaulting a couple of steps up the corporate ladder,
to determine whether CO might be willing to extend the hand of gracious
hospitality, rather than be forced to read your claims that "CO sucks aigs
and runs rabbits!" on the 'net and traveler websites.


Of course, one personaladvantage comes from living in a state with a small
claims court system in which a lawyer is not required, that an action could
be filed in a city in which CO would have to hire representation, thus
making it likely that the airline would be willing to make a deal. Of
course, it might make a judgement hard to collect, having to hire process
service to nail a notice of sequestration to a baggae cart or aircraft
nose.

TMO

Dick Locke extrapolated from data available...

On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 06:22:25 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 23:03:05 -0400, wrote:

Not to this mindless immature twit. He would get laughed out of court
undoubtedly. He's just some cheap ******* that wants to squeeze
whatever he can out of an airline. Note he didn't tell us what type
of ticket he had in the first place. Probably the five dollar special
that he thinks he can leverage into a first class seat.

Ah yes, another troll who did not read the answer to his stupid
question. It's right there in the original posting.

Hang in there, jbk is one of a few people in here who almost always
sides with big institutions over individuals. You've got a good story,
and as you initially stated, if a bunch of people have had the same
thing happen to them, a potentially practical court action.


I'm not sure how good your case is/was, but am surprised that CO didn't
come up with a better or more convincing response. If, as you claim, your
"certificate" contains no limitations beyond the phrase you quote, CO might
have difficulty in mounting a credible defense in court. I would probably
make another attempt, vaulting a couple of steps up the corporate ladder,
to determine whether CO might be willing to extend the hand of gracious
hospitality, rather than be forced to read your claims that "CO sucks aigs
and runs rabbits!" on the 'net and traveler websites.


Of course, one personaladvantage comes from living in a state with a small
claims court system in which a lawyer is not required, that an action could
be filed in a city in which CO would have to hire representation, thus
making it likely that the airline would be willing to make a deal. Of
course, it might make a judgement hard to collect, having to hire process
service to nail a notice of sequestration to a baggae cart or aircraft
nose.

TMO

wrote in message . ..
[snip]
No. He buys sewer tickets by his own admission. He's a first class
wanabee that's too cheap to pay for it.
[snip]

Not exactly. Regardless of what his original ticket was worth, they
apparently offered him this voucher in an attempt to get him to give
it up. They offered a deal and he took it. They are basically now
trying to alter the terms of the deal after the fact. Not that I'm
surprised. I tend to avoid these deals to a great degree because
there are just enough "catches" to not make it worth my while most
of the time. But it appears that he kinda caught them this time.
These aren't frequent flier miles that have the caveat that they
can change the rules after the fact. This is more like charging
your credit card more for a ticket after you bought it because the
price of fuel went up.

That said, I'd be surprised if this went very far legally. I've
talked to lawyer friends before in these kinds of situations and
basically they always recommend you just negotiate for something else.
To some extent, the judge may effectively choose to do the same thing
for you if you don't.

(me) wrote in message . com...
wrote in message . ..
[snip]
No. He buys sewer tickets by his own admission. He's a first class
wanabee that's too cheap to pay for it.
[snip]

Not exactly. Regardless of what his original ticket was worth, they
apparently offered him this voucher in an attempt to get him to give
it up. They offered a deal and he took it.

That much we can all agree, I think.


They are basically now
trying to alter the terms of the deal after the fact.

These aren't frequent flier miles that have the caveat that they
can change the rules after the fact.

None of my upgrades were on FF miles. As a Platinum member, they
were FREE (complimentary) upgrades. Thus, NO FF miles are involved.

But it's CO's rules and policy about UPGRADES -- they can change the
rules at any time. Neither the FF miles nor the FF Program is
necessarily involved.


This is more like charging
your credit card more for a ticket after you bought it because the
price of fuel went up.

:-) Don't think so.

It's more like the airline CANCELLING a flight (after selling you the
ticket) because there are too few passengers, so they put you on a
later or earlier flight for which you didn't buy the ticket -- now
THIS happens. Not sure if anyone ever challenged the legality of this.


That said, I'd be surprised if this went very far legally. I've
talked to lawyer friends before in these kinds of situations and
basically they always recommend you just negotiate for something else.
To some extent, the judge may effectively choose to do the same thing
for you if you don't.

I tend to agree with what you said in this paragraph.

-- Bob.

On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 12:13:06 -0500, Olivers
wrote:

Of course, one personaladvantage comes from living in a state with a small
claims court system in which a lawyer is not required, that an action could
be filed in a city in which CO would have to hire representation, thus
making it likely that the airline would be willing to make a deal. Of
course, it might make a judgement hard to collect, having to hire process
service to nail a notice of sequestration to a baggae cart or aircraft
nose.

Which I do. Asfor serving a judgement, it so happens I can reach the
owner of the largest process server company in the USA with one phone
call. We went to high school together. His business model is built in
guaranteed service. No service; no fee.

BTW, yesterday I got a "response" from CO saying that my emails have
been forwarded to "Customer care" and saying I would be hearing from
"Customer care" shortly.

That email also mispelled my name. Not surprising from an airline
reservation department that confuses Barbados and Bermuda.

On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 06:27:14 -0500, "Bob Chipeska"
wrote:
The acme of foolishness is spending thousands on an attorney to collect a
couple hundred dollars. You can't even define your monetary damages.


And the epitome of arrogance is assuming things about which you know
nothing. A small claims court filing fee in this area is around $35
or so and includes service of the summons. Because the defendant is a
corporation they must appear with an attorney. I am not required to
have one.

As for what you call my inability to define damages, you are mistaken
again. I simply declined to define them to you. I'll claim them in the
complaint and support them in court.

Back in your hole troll.

wrote:

On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 12:13:06 -0500, Olivers
wrote:


Of course, one personaladvantage comes from living in a state with a small
claims court system in which a lawyer is not required, that an action could
be filed in a city in which CO would have to hire representation, thus
making it likely that the airline would be willing to make a deal. Of
course, it might make a judgement hard to collect, having to hire process
service to nail a notice of sequestration to a baggae cart or aircraft
nose.


Which I do. Asfor serving a judgement, it so happens I can reach the
owner of the largest process server company in the USA with one phone
call. We went to high school together. His business model is built in
guaranteed service. No service; no fee.

Now we ARE impressed. Wow.. All of this power and still reduce to
sending email to the same place us peons send it.

Impressive people don't have to "impress" people.