HK is part of China, isn't it ?

"///Black and White///" ...


therefore, if the photo gallery is meant to be political, u probably want
to
separate it... otherwise, it make sense to group them together as one
China.


right, group them together
Money and so called "democracy"... ...
Maybe one day, the people in HK will reach the same cultural and moral
standards as mainland China.
Nowadays the HK moral standards are almost as decadent as in some places in
old western europe.

I remember the survey on the HK airport, they asked me:
- do you prefer HK or Shanghai as a business / leisure city ?
- i prefer Shanghai.
- uh ? why ?
- because in Shanghai there are real Chinese people, here people just look
as if they are Chinese.
- ... ...

One day, HK will realise that their future is in mainland China, not in
London or elsewhere.

"Miguel Cruz" wrote in message
...
///Black and White/// wrote:
cantonese, mandrian, hokkien, sichuannese, hakka, Taiwanese... all uses
the
same form of chinese writtings abeit different spoken dialect, as oppose
to
various form of written language in europe, which explain why europen
nations remain separated while China unified.

I see, that explains why the UK and Ireland remain unified while
Switzerland
is separated.

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos from 35 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu
Latest photos: Malaysia, Israel, Palestine, Austria, Thailand

interesting observatione!

"Miguel Cruz" wrote in message
...
///Black and White/// wrote:
cantonese, mandrian, hokkien, sichuannese, hakka, Taiwanese... all uses
the
same form of chinese writtings abeit different spoken dialect, as oppose
to
various form of written language in europe, which explain why europen
nations remain separated while China unified.

I see, that explains why the UK and Ireland remain unified while
Switzerland
is separated.

miguel
--
Good one! It also must explain why Tibet is part of China and why Tibetans
are so happy with Chinese script.
Belgium is similar to Switzerland though though it seems more reluctantly.

I assume Boochap thinks that Taiwan is part of China.
Whether its language is Chinese is debatable.
There is a Taiwanese version of Chinese (based on Hokkien?) but the original
non-Chinese Taiwanese have their own languages which are not Chinese based.
The Chinese seem to ignore these original natives when promoting the One
China idea.

I supposed the idea and concept of chinese civilisation and it's way of life
and are far more complex than most westerner could understand or interpret
by their western standards. this has always been a never ending debate since
the clash of the 2 civilisations a couple of hundred years ago...enojy and
keep the momentum going.... perharps one day TAR will also realise that
their future is in mainland China, not in Dehli or Washinton or elsewhere.



"RAK" wrote in message
news:1110597248.cfe481f66f08f2253050589639556d51@t eranews...

"Miguel Cruz" wrote in message
...
///Black and White/// wrote:
cantonese, mandrian, hokkien, sichuannese, hakka, Taiwanese... all uses
the
same form of chinese writtings abeit different spoken dialect, as
oppose
to
various form of written language in europe, which explain why europen
nations remain separated while China unified.

I see, that explains why the UK and Ireland remain unified while
Switzerland
is separated.

miguel
--
Good one! It also must explain why Tibet is part of China and why Tibetans
are so happy with Chinese script.
Belgium is similar to Switzerland though though it seems more reluctantly.

I assume Boochap thinks that Taiwan is part of China.
Whether its language is Chinese is debatable.
There is a Taiwanese version of Chinese (based on Hokkien?) but the
original
non-Chinese Taiwanese have their own languages which are not Chinese
based.
The Chinese seem to ignore these original natives when promoting the One
China idea.

Mentre cercavo qualcuno a cui dare la cassetta di Sadako, una misteriosa
telefonata con la voce di ///Black and White/// mi disse:


u probably do not understand the meaning of Chinese to make these senseless
comment.

for thousands of years, it is the chinese language that binds the chinese
together as a single civilisation, single empire, single dynasty, single
country, and nothing else.

cantonese, mandrian, hokkien, sichuannese, hakka, Taiwanese... all uses the
same form of chinese writtings abeit different spoken dialect, as oppose to
various form of written language in europe, which explain why europen
nations remain separated while China unified.


OK, so you say: they have the same writing, so they are the same people.
I understand your point of view, it's very interesting, but I want you to
think abou it: how about JAPAN?
Chinese, HKers and so on can read almast 90% of Japanese writings, being
kanji based on Chinese characters: they are even more similar to
Traditional Chinese characters than Simplified ones.
So I would put Japan together with China...? ^__^ Obviously not: different
story, different culture, much but not enough in common to feel part of the
same country.

concept of western law, human rights, market econ, and weath have taken
100yrs to develop in HK, or 50yrs in Taiwan... how long should the Mainland
China take to be on par with both HK or Taiwan, considering a 1.3billion
population, majority still heavily dependent on traditional rural
agriculture, and many still under extreme poverty..?

Sure, I agree with you. I don't think Chinese are bad or any other idiot
racist anti-communist thought, really. If China looks so bad to us about
human rights and so on, it's just because we don't realize China is
improving and it has to take its time, being so big and so poor. I'm just
betting, but I guess in no more than 20 years China will be "human" maybe
as like Europe, and for sure more than US (actually it's so idiot for us
European to blame China about human right while we depend on US, one of the
Nations where human rights are less considered...).

But, in the end, I give you my impression as European tourist and boyfriend
of a 20yo HK girl: China and HK seemed to me as two different countries,
and my gf's friends (in their twenties too), HK natives, they think so. For
sure, analyzing deep reasons and historical processes, you could be right.
But my impression has been totally different.

--
Stefano
aka Senbee Norimaki
ICQ# 4243376

Mentre cercavo qualcuno a cui dare la cassetta di Sadako, una misteriosa
telefonata con la voce di Mike mi disse:

Do the Hong Kong people speak better Mandarin or English? (real
non-rhetoric question :-)

According to my own experience (I'm Italian, always going to HK because of
friends and girlfriend) Hongkongers know English much better than Mandarin.
But my experience is only related to people in their twenties: I guess for
new generations things are changing a lot.

Anyway, my gf now is in Italy, and yesterday we went to a Chinese
Restaurant, which boss is from Shanghai. My gf and him began to speak in
Mandarin: after five minutes, I saw my gf very embarassed, the restaurant
chief was a little bit smiling, than my gf stopped to talk suddently and
the chief told me (in Italian): "Hey, your girlfriend speaks only dialect!"
:-D

--
Stefano
aka Senbee Norimaki
ICQ# 4243376

Yes, it's very interesting.

Japanese adapted chinese writtings in the 7th century C.E. during the Tang
Dynasty, while they are not chinese people, similiarly to the Korean before
they developed their own writtings.

Chinese writtings changes over the thousands years Pre Warriors state,
Warriors state to Qin, Han to Tang, and mainland ROC to PRC. Japanese style
chinese writtings, however, remain almost unchange since they inherited it
1000+ yr ago. The introduction of simplified chinese writing by PRC has it's
root and basis on traditional chinese calligraphy "cao shu" and "xing shu",
where multiple strokes are been simplfied into one for simplicity and speed,
it is not out of the communist fantacy. This also explains why most
traditional chinese writting readers could read the simplifed, and
vice-versa. HK, Taiwan and many of the overseas chinese havent not adapted
simplfied wittings partly out of political reasons or the resistance for
change, and partly because China was close to the rest of the world when it
was initially introduced. It will takes time for the 2.0blllion chinese
worldwide to adapt the same simplified writting. Going further, one should
see simplfied chinese witiings eventually be accepted, but it will be
economically driven instead of political.

Apart from the chinese writtings, chinese architecture changes over years,
through the various dynasties esp Ming/Manchuria, while Japanese
architecture style remains. Infact, one could still notice the shadow or
influence of Tang style in Japan than in Beijing today. Similiarly, the Tang
people like Janapnese today, sat on the floor, chairs and table were only
introduced later.

While many westerner are able to understand the political chinese through
various sources, but mostly from western authurs in western languages with
western perspectives, to get deeper into the culture details, you'll
probably have to pick up more chinese before you could really understand
more. This is like trying to interpret Shakespheres in Mandrian, you are
just wasting your time.

One could go back into ancient chinese text to confirm this, chinese has
always defined themselve as chinese more from a culture perspective. In
essense, chinese are not "pure blood" people, but a mixed of many races
living within or around China over the last 5000yrs, who had adapted the
chinese way of life, this is unlike the Japanese or the Anglo-Saxon or the
German. Unlike may ancient civilisations, Chinese history has never came to
a standstill, despite the many civil wars, Mongol, Manchuria or Japanese, in
fact the invaders either get assimilated and accepted into the chinese
culture and family or got thrown out of the country.

NO doubt, there are great many differeces between the mainland China, HK,
Taiwan...mindset, wealth, politics, freedom, etc...but it takes 7millions HK
people 100yrs to get to what they are today and to be on par with the
Londoners or NewYorkers, wouldn't it be too unfair to expect the 1.3 billion
mainland chinese to be like HK in less than 27yrs since DXP slowly opened up
the country base on market economy..???

Coming back to your lovely 20yr HK gf...if you and her get marry and stay on
in HK for the next 50yrs or so, parharps your children or grandchildren
would see China and HK, and pabably Taiwan, as the same country. ;p

Having said all that, I will supposed foreigns experience, skeptism, critics
and advise will definitely help to catalyse the process, so let's keep the
momentum going, and be more patient...

Cheers..!!



OK, so you say: they have the same writing, so they are the same people.
I understand your point of view, it's very interesting, but I want you to
think abou it: how about JAPAN?
Chinese, HKers and so on can read almast 90% of Japanese writings, being
kanji based on Chinese characters: they are even more similar to
Traditional Chinese characters than Simplified ones.
So I would put Japan together with China...? ^__^ Obviously not: different
story, different culture, much but not enough in common to feel part of
the
same country.

concept of western law, human rights, market econ, and weath have taken
100yrs to develop in HK, or 50yrs in Taiwan... how long should the
Mainland
China take to be on par with both HK or Taiwan, considering a 1.3billion
population, majority still heavily dependent on traditional rural
agriculture, and many still under extreme poverty..?

Sure, I agree with you. I don't think Chinese are bad or any other idiot
racist anti-communist thought, really. If China looks so bad to us about
human rights and so on, it's just because we don't realize China is
improving and it has to take its time, being so big and so poor. I'm just
betting, but I guess in no more than 20 years China will be "human" maybe
as like Europe, and for sure more than US (actually it's so idiot for us
European to blame China about human right while we depend on US, one of
the
Nations where human rights are less considered...).

But, in the end, I give you my impression as European tourist and
boyfriend
of a 20yo HK girl: China and HK seemed to me as two different countries,
and my gf's friends (in their twenties too), HK natives, they think so.
For
sure, analyzing deep reasons and historical processes, you could be right.
But my impression has been totally different.

--
Stefano
aka Senbee Norimaki
ICQ# 4243376

Senbee Norimaki wrote:
(actually it's so idiot for us European to blame China about human right
while we depend on US, one of the Nations where human rights are less
considered...).

If you want to pick on the US, you might want to select a softer spot to
attack. The overall human rights situation in the US is excellent and cannot
be compared with China. When you compare with European nations, sometimes
they win, sometimes the US wins. Really at this point it gets down to which
rights you consider to be the most important.

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos from 35 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu
Latest photos: Malaysia, Israel, Palestine, Austria, Thailand

Open-minded Hong Kong people won't care about both categorization.

Only those pro-CCP people get nervous about it. They always emphasize HK is
a part of China. CCP gets angry easily when Taiwan is colored differently
from Mainland on a world map.

Unless you get very close connection to those people, or target on that
group of netizens, I think it's no big deal to separate HK from China in a
web index.

(I live in Hong Kong... :-P)



--
»{Ãѧڡù http://home.i-cable.com/kguy
¾x³³³Ç¡û news://news.xddddd.com/personal.taojie


"Alfred Molon" ernews.com...
Will start processing soon the HK photos and will create a photo gallery
inside the China section. Would anybody object to this ? Is HK China ?
The alternative would be to place HK as a separate country on the same
level as China, Thailand, Malaysia etc.
--

Alfred Molon

http://www.molon.de/Galleries.htm - Photos from China, Myanmar, Brunei,
Malaysia, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Nepal, Egypt, Germany, Austria,
Prague, Budapest, Singapore and Portugal

Mentre cercavo qualcuno a cui dare la cassetta di Sadako, una misteriosa
telefonata con la voce di fungus mi disse:


While many westerner are able to understand the political chinese through
various sources, but mostly from western authurs in western languages with
western perspectives, to get deeper into the culture details, you'll
probably have to pick up more chinese before you could really understand
more. This is like trying to interpret Shakespheres in Mandrian, you are
just wasting your time.

Thank you very much, I really appreciated your post, it's really useful for
me and my knowledge of Asian things.
You confirm actually my impression: analyzing the problem in a deep way,
China and HK are the same country. But, in a superficial and "first-look"
way, they are two different countries. Anyway: both destined to be one.


Coming back to your lovely 20yr HK gf...if you and her get marry and stay on
in HK for the next 50yrs or so, parharps your children or grandchildren
would see China and HK, and pabably Taiwan, as the same country. ;p

Yup, I bet so.
And I even don't say 50 years, I guess in just 20 or 30 years China and HK
will be the same country. Anyway this doesn't deny that in this very moment
a lot of HKers don't feel themselves as part of mainland China, even if
this is destined to change a lot.
Obviously my dream is not HK to become like China, but China becomes like
Hong Kong :-)

--
Stefano
aka Senbee Norimaki
ICQ# 4243376